Indian Special Forces

ManhattanProject

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LoL, You know the day he gets droppt by India our diplomatic pressure and burden on Pakistan will be lessened, the reason he’s still alive is because his existence allows us to exert pressure on porkiland, otherwise R&AW showed him in Johar Town blast that we can neutralise him at will anytime anywhere.
Sure👍
 

SKC

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Hafiz Saeed is enjoying his life in Pakistan but Osama Bin Laden is dead. Tells you something about our capabilities.
Not comparable scenarios.
US had access to Pakistan. They had bases there both army and Air strips.
We don't have any such liberty with us.

When we did had chance to do anything significant in Pakistan in 1980s and 90s the then Defense Ministers chickened out and leaked the plans to outside.
 

Marliii

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Not comparable scenarios.
US had access to Pakistan. They had bases there both army and Air strips.
We don't have any such liberty with us.

When we did had chance to do anything significant in Pakistan in 1980s and 90s the then Defense Ministers chickened out and leaked the plans to outside.
The black hawks came from Afghanistan to take OBL out.
 

Marliii

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Yes we all know.
Its known to everyone but the moment the porks realised their was a raid most of their attention was on India and they thought it was an indian attempt raiding their nuke facilities.US had a great plan and good luck that the returning chinooks or the black hawks weren't shot down
 

rkhanna

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Its known to everyone but the moment the porks realised their was a raid most of their attention was on India and they thought it was an indian attempt raiding their nuke facilities.US had a great plan and good luck that the returning chinooks or the black hawks weren't shot down
Well I would assume that the American raid came with an insane amount of EW jamming to take care of most of their SAM network (the bulk is facing India anyways)

Also an F16 was scrambled and the Americans told the Pakis to stand down
 

Sir pe tapla

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Well I would assume that the American raid came with an insane amount of EW jamming to take care of most of their SAM network (the bulk is facing India anyways)

Also an F16 was scrambled and the Americans told the Pakis to stand down
Unlike the US, we have the threat of PAF engaging us, why can't people understand this simple fact?

how do arm chair geniuses here want Indian SF to infiltrate this deep inside Pakistan, kill Hafiz and then exfiltrate without the Paf scrambling their jets or their SAMs detecting our helis?

"spine of the government", show me how you all are going to do this supposed raid.
 

Hariharan_kalarikkal

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Unlike the US, we have the threat of PAF engaging us, why can't people understand this simple fact?

how do arm chair geniuses here want Indian SF to infiltrate this deep inside Pakistan, kill Hafiz and then exfiltrate without the Paf scrambling their jets or their SAMs detecting our helis?

"spine of the government", show me how you all are going to do this supposed raid.
We had CIT-X and CIT-J in the old times
If he had an espionage network in place, you don't need Fancy stealth helos and ew stuff
All they need to do is poison his water supply or something, or even better plant an IED under some manhole and blow his a$$
Credits: my wet dreams and a hint of bollywood
 

Maharaj samudragupt

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We had CIT-X and CIT-J in the old times
If he had an espionage network in place, you don't need Fancy stealth helos and ew stuff
All they need to do is poison his water supply or something, or even better plant an IED under some manhole and blow his a$$
Credits: my wet dreams and a hint of bollywood
Or plant a bomb in his mic , magic Bollywood
 
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rkhanna

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Unlike the US, we have the threat of PAF engaging us, why can't people understand this simple fact?

how do arm chair geniuses here want Indian SF to infiltrate this deep inside Pakistan, kill Hafiz and then exfiltrate without the Paf scrambling their jets or their SAMs detecting our helis?

"spine of the government", show me how you all are going to do this supposed raid.
Well the while point of a SOF capability is to operate in denied Areas. This includes solutions/technology for infil and exfil. The SOKOs and Israelis routinely do raids / recce missions deep inside NoKo and Iran.

Simple fact is that we have gotten happy winning medals and promotions doing COIN. We were NoT ready during Kargil and we were ready last year against rh chinese. Sheer grit of the Jawan gets the job done.

The only people who are planning to win in a future environment seems to be the AF and to an extent the Navy - and they don't really do COIN do they
 

Waanar

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Well the while point of a SOF capability is to operate in denied Areas. This includes solutions/technology for infil and exfil. The SOKOs and Israelis routinely do raids / recce missions deep inside NoKo and Iran.

Simple fact is that we have gotten happy winning medals and promotions doing COIN. We were NoT ready during Kargil and we were ready last year against rh chinese. Sheer grit of the Jawan gets the job done.

The only people who are planning to win in a future environment seems to be the AF and to an extent the Navy - and they don't really do COIN do they
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Special forces are a very small portion of a war. Important, yes, but a small cog in the grinding gears of the enormous warmachine and we cannot be good judges of the ENTIRE Army.

Also, we don't know what's happening behind the scenes.
If the surgical strikes proved anything, it's that Paras are pretty comfortable in cross border raids. This comfort must've stemmed from previous operations.
Six teams (and probably more, in reserve somewhere in the forest as contingency) are a LARGE force. Especially on an alert border. It's not something you send a team to virgin territory to do.

Not to mention the other raids that followed in the years through.
 

rkhanna

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we cannot be good judges of the ENTIRE Army.
Oh I dont judge the entire Army. Just Ofsars above a certain rank because then they turn into Politicians anyways. ofcourse there are exceptions like our current CDS.

Let me tell you a story. few months before Kargil the Indian Army Wargamed a senario with Pakistan at Corp level. a Young Enthusiastic officer employed an unconventional Tactic as the OPFOR and defeated the IA side of war gamers. the Referee's deemd the young officers strategy as a cheat as nobody in their right mind would pull such a strategy. Few months later that was EXACTLY how the Pakistani's occupied the highest overlooking Kargil.

Tell me does the current Small Purchase program inspire confidence? The Fact that we are upgrading our BMP's to 2000 levels only after realizing Oh SHIT we may have to fight an actual war against China?

Hell there is ample evidence of a faction within the Army that Sabotaged the Arjun tanks for YEARS during trials. Only stopped with DRDO finally put a blackbox inside to record data.

Lets face a large chunk of our Army Headshed is risk averse. You can see the pattern in a whole bunch of things including Calling in a SF Squad every time you have militants trapped inside a CASO Ring. I truely believe 30 years of fighting COIN has made us rusty. Zero forward thinking.

The world just witnessed a whole war fought and won quickly using cheap Swarm drones made by Turkey. Do we not think they can find their way to the jihadis in Kashmir? We needed a strike at an AF installation to wake up?

On the other hand i admire the AF. They know they will take decades to come to 42 Squadrons. If they manage 36 by 2030 itself will be a huge fleet. They know they will have to look at China and Pakistan together at the same time as well as keep the coast safe. Keep in mind that the Chinese could pump out ~200+ J-20s in a decade. How do they (IAF) achieve it with No money or MIC to support them. They are turning to value add enablers like the Stealth CATS Drones Program interlinked with a Mothership (LCA/MKI) and Swarm Drones as force multipliers. Evens the odds alot.

The AMCA tech domonstrator + the CATS program could actually allow us to leapfrog from the LCA mkII to a 6th Gen UCAV
 
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HawkisRight

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Well the while point of a SOF capability is to operate in denied Areas. This includes solutions/technology for infil and exfil. The SOKOs and Israelis routinely do raids / recce missions deep inside NoKo and Iran.

Simple fact is that we have gotten happy winning medals and promotions doing COIN. We were NoT ready during Kargil and we were ready last year against rh chinese. Sheer grit of the Jawan gets the job done.

The only people who are planning to win in a future environment seems to be the AF and to an extent the Navy - and they don't really do COIN do they
Air force flying vintage 60s mig 21, air force which complaints about air superiority of enemy bvr's after 27feb, air force which is having problems with keeping enough fighting squadrons...Yup air force is planning future warfare but has issues flying in present day warfare...air force is actually the weakest link in all three services
 
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HawkisRight

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Oh I dont judge the entire Army. Just Ofsars above a certain rank because then they turn into Politicians anyways. ofcourse there are exceptions like our current CDS.

Let me tell you a story. few months before Kargil the Indian Army Wargamed a senario with Pakistan at Corp level. a Young Enthusiastic officer employed an unconventional Tactic as the OPFOR and defeated the IA side of war gamers. the Referee's deemd the young officers strategy as a cheat as nobody in their right mind would pull such a strategy. Few months later that was EXACTLY how the Pakistani's occupied the highest overlooking Kargil.

Tell me does the current Small Purchase program inspire confidence? The Fact that we are upgrading our BMP's to 2000 levels only after realizing Oh SHIT we may have to fight an actual war against China?

Hell there is ample evidence of a faction within the Army that Sabotaged the Arjun tanks for YEARS during trials. Only stopped with DRDO finally put a blackbox inside to record data.

Lets face a large chunk of our Army Headshed is risk averse. You can see the pattern in a whole bunch of things including Calling in a SF Squad every time you have militants trapped inside a CASO Ring. I truely believe 30 years of fighting COIN has made us rusty. Zero forward thinking.

The world just witnessed a whole war fought and won quickly using cheap Swarm drones made by Turkey. Do we not think they can find their way to the jihadis in Kashmir? We needed a strike at an AF installation to wake up?

On the other hand i admire the AF. They know they will take decades to come to 42 Squadrons. If they manage 36 by 2030 itself will be a huge fleet. They know they will have to look at China and Pakistan together at the same time as well as keep the coast safe. Keep in mind that the Chinese could pump out ~200+ J-20s in a decade. How do they (IAF) achieve it with No money or MIC to support them. They are turning to value add enablers like the Stealth CATS Drones Program interlinked with a Mothership (LCA/MKI) and Swarm Drones as force multipliers. Evens the odds alot.

The AMCA tech domonstrator + the CATS program could actually allow us to leapfrog from the LCA mkII to a 6th Gen UCAV
Amca + cats IS NOT 6th Gen..At best amca wid cats will be 5.5 gen whenever it comes into production in next decade... Americans will decide what is 6th gen.. Murica is ONLY country which developed and is flying True 5th gen fighter from last 15 years .. Generational Fighter is American concept So muricans will define what is 6th gen...Let Indian air force retire its vintage mig21s first
 

Chakraborty

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One question.
What is the sff exactly???
An airborne light infantry?
Special operations capable (SOC) light infantry?
Special operations force (SOF)?
Reconnaissance troops?
I know they are elite paramilitary meant to do covert and clandestine ops.
But that is a bit ambiguous. What kind of role do they perform? Like that of elite infantry troopers(like rangers?) Or like a SOF?
In 71's war they performed mainly direct action but with significant efficiency along with very less casualty(49)that is beyond the capability of normal infantry.( like raids, sabotage, ambush). Previous year they captured two hill tops with only 1 casualty. They perform reconnaissance patrols in extreme mountainous terrains. And during cold war era they did intelligence operations of tremendous magnitude that only SOFs can do(though they were supported by USA but it was our men who did it).
There is no doubt that these guys are tough, professional, mysterious and definitely no ordinary infantryman.
It will be helpful if anyone clarifies what is the sff actually?
Regards.
 

Col Habib zahir

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One question.
What is the sff exactly???
An airborne light infantry?
Special operations capable (SOC) light infantry?
Special operations force (SOF)?
Reconnaissance troops?
I know they are elite paramilitary meant to do covert and clandestine ops.
But that is a bit ambiguous. What kind of role do they perform? Like that of elite infantry troopers(like rangers?) Or like a SOF?
In 71's war they performed mainly direct action but with significant efficiency along with very less casualty(49)that is beyond the capability of normal infantry.( like raids, sabotage, ambush). Previous year they captured two hill tops with only 1 casualty. They perform reconnaissance patrols in extreme mountainous terrains. And during cold war era they did intelligence operations of tremendous magnitude that only SOFs can do(though they were supported by USA but it was our men who did it).
There is no doubt that these guys are tough, professional, mysterious and definitely no ordinary infantryman.
It will be helpful if anyone clarifies what is the sff actually?
Regards.
Para sf

images (5).jpeg
 

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