Indian Special Forces

[Sir pe tapla]

Sir, we sincerely believe deaf soldiers won't perform as good as the ones with normal hearing.

We may be wrong though.

It's not an obsession. It's a desparation seeing sub saharan troops with better equipment.


Gaand ka pata nahi, but good BPJ would definitely stop bullets to vital organs.
If you switch the crotch cover to the other side, it might just stop the goli from gaand mein ghusing.

Do we have those either?
No.

We have an army equipped worse than African troops right now.

That's not true.. We have a better equipped army than most Saharan Nations. SF issue is seperate. Look at the regular troops of all these Saharan armies. Most of them spend their majority budget on SF while their ragtag main army element runs around with no helmets or good artillery guns or mortars .

 

[Yodha]

This is a collated reply.

1. I don't want to waste time explaining why I don't want to know about something which I don't have.

2. Of all the info in my post, you guys specifically picked up what I spoke about COMTACS. What about EEP? A foot soldiers role in the RT net? We do lack basic RT in almost all the places. But you guys don't talk about it because you don't have any clue. But you want to tell me about COMTACS because YouTube.

3. Nobody is warping your realities. Instead reminding you of the reality.

 

[Waanar]

Soldiers being deaf from what? Firing a rifle or an RL? If ever someone needs a troop level communication system, that is only Artillery.

In a typical mission would you rather have a full acoustic awareness of what is going around or would you like to only listen to radio chatter and other mumbled up voices?

See... You guys are being heavy on your empathy wishing for things that you don't know how they are used. We never had the concept of a section of troops where everyone is included in the radio chatter. It is generally the commander of the section who gets the orders and he passes it on to his troops. Most of our Operations for infantry are conducted as such the troops are in audio visual contact reliant on vocal communication and sign language.

I'm asking you this honestly, where do you envisage the usage of such COMTACS.

And again our EEPs are vaguely laid out and the usage of radio communication is not well defined. We have abridged forms of communication amongst the troops starting from the top level to the sepoy on battlefield.

Are they cost effective? Thousands of rupees a piece is too much for us to invest and maintain. Maintenance is a pain.

And my reply was about the OP talking sarcastically and relating things that are actually having no link between then. COMTACS lagaana aur goli lagna????

BPJs are life savers. We never had that concept as well. Reluctance of troops to wear heavy BPJs and non availability of quality material was the major cause. But things are improving these days at a rapid pace.

With this kind of outlook, I have no doubt that some one will be sad on this forum sooner because our troops don't have frag suits for every one in army like Zaslan.

Whining is different from wishing.

Comtacs amplify the surrounding noise and only muffle the louder noises to hearing safe levels.
It's not a sound muffling headset which only allows you to hear what the radio feeds. It improves situational awareness, not degrades it.

No sir, we do not demand frag suits like Zaslon, neither do we demand proper rebreather systems which don't give off bubbles, nor do we demand MOPP level 4 HAZMAT suits.

We understand those are special cases and can be obtained on a rapid level when the need arises, but we will demand what is considered a common piece of gear which will extend the longevity of our soldier's hearing.

Lol no, didn't expect this from you waanr ji .
Too much generlizaton , I see more regular troops wearing good helmets than before, plus bullet proof jacket situation is also improving.

But it's not uniform.
I actually never mentioned helmets. I believe helmets are being issued at a good pace, but having high cuts without comtacs defeats the purpose.

My generalization was in answer to @Yodha sir's generalization of "gaand mein ghusti goli".
Gaand mein ghusti goli ko toh kuch nahi rok sakta, toh kyu na bandook bhi na dein apne soldiers ko.
Talwaar de dete hain.

Not to mention him thinking COMTACs are nothing but cool looking headphones who will muffle ambient noise.
Comment ka context samjhein.

Are abhi ek ko maar ke bhagaya yaha se @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR ek aur naya aa gaya. #gucci gang.

You guys honestly pissed off someone who had a lot to add to the quality of this thread and is a real old timer on this forum who regularly dropped caveats from acquainted serving members in the SOF community.

Meanwhile, what do you add to the thread?

This?
"Usko maar ke bhagya, ye naya aaya hashtag gucci gang"?

If you have a good point to add, do so. If not, ad hominems will earn only ad hominems.

 

[Waanar]

That's not true.. We have a better equipped army than most Saharan Nations. SF issue is seperate. Look at the regular troops of all these Saharan armies. Most of them spend their majority budget on SF while their ragtag main army element runs around with no helmets or good artillery guns or mortars .

We are discussing SF, Sir. This is the SF thread.

I'm taking about SF troops in my comment.

 

[Waanar]

This is a collated reply.

1. I don't want to waste time explaining why I don't want to know about something which I don't have.

That's okay, sir.

We thought, since you remarked about COMTAC fanboyism, you must know about it and are considering the context of the Indian trooper in regards to it.
Didn't think you knew nothing about it but were still pissed at guys talking about it.

2. Of all the info in my post, you guys specifically picked up what I spoke about COMTACS. What about EEP? A foot soldiers role in the RT net? We do lack basic RT in almost all the places. But you guys don't talk about it because you don't have any clue. But you want to tell me about COMTACS because YouTube.

Sir, if we knew about it, and it's importance, we'd be raising hue and cry about it too.

We're perennial bewas weeping for the untimely and unfortunate demise of the tax money sacrificed at the altar of bureaucracy and babus.
If it isn't sensitive info, would love an elaboration.

3. Nobody is warping your realities. Instead reminding you of the reality.

Sir, reality is such that we have two nuclear neighbors with top of the line gear for their troops (and one terror group armed better than both which did dip their toe fighting us back in the 90s) while we argue about incredibly common gear like a bunch of damn "headphones".

Reality is such that the third largest economy can't order a 3000 piece batch of "Headphones".





P.S- Would still love an elaboration on the lacking EEP and RT net you mentioned.

Genuinely would love to raise another hullaboo on this thread on reasonable stuff till some people "maar ke bhaga" me like they did @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR .

wink wink

 

[Yodha]

This is what gets me….

Every other force on this planet (even freaking terrorists now) are adopting this ‘Gucci gear’ but Indian units are fighting against the tide just to stand still

And the people defending their abysmal state have to go to ever more desperate mental gymnastics just to defend being stuck 30+ years in the past.

Who needs COMTACS with noise cancellation when you have cheap consumer grade headsets designed for office workers?

I don’t understand why some can’t just accept the situation is not desirable, instead they have to try and warp our perception of reality.

I suppose people like you are needed to teach those who you deem as defendants of an abysmal state.

 

[Yodha]

That's okay, sir.

We thought, since you remarked about COMTAC fanboyism, you must know about it and are considering the context of the Indian trooper in regards to it.
Didn't think you knew nothing about it but were still pissed at guys talking about it.

Sir, if we knew about it, and it's importance, we'd be raising hue and cry about it too.

We're perennial bewas weeping for the untimely and unfortunate demise of the tax money sacrificed at the altar of bureaucracy and babus.
If it isn't sensitive info, would love an elaboration.

Sir, reality is such that we have two nuclear neighbors with top of the line gear for their troops (and one terror group armed better than both which did dip their toe fighting us back in the 90s) while we argue about incredibly common gear like a bunch of damn "headphones".

Reality is such that the third largest economy can't order a 3000 piece batch of "Headphones".





P.S- Would still love an elaboration on the lacking EEP and RT net you mentioned.

Genuinely would love to raise another hullaboo on this thread on reasonable stuff till some people "maar ke bhaga" me like they did @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR .

wink wink

I'm not knew to such technology or I'm not unaware of such things.
See, I have a proCase 28db range shooting headset that exactly does muffling and amplification of external acoustics. It can be connected to a Motorola or i-Com using a 13 to 3.5 mm connector cable. But it lacks a microphone. The reason I don't comment about COMTACS is I never used one.

 

[BlackViking]

What advantages do high cuts have over ACHs? Is it only for plugging in COMTACS or something more?

 

[Aditya Ballal]

What advantages do high cuts have over ACHs? Is it only for plugging in COMTACS or something more?

Extremely lightweight, some newer ballistic ones weigh less than the fibreglass M1974 helmets

 

[BlackViking]

Extremely lightweight, some newer ballistic ones weigh less than the fibreglass M1974 helmets

I asked for these two.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

I asked for these two.

Same still stands, they are much lighter than ACHs and offer more comfort and freedom of movement and manoeuvrability to your head due to the light weight and smaller profile. Just like modern plate carriers do over older heavier bullet proof vests.

 

[BlackViking]

Same still stands, they are much lighter than ACHs and offer more comfort and freedom of movement to your head due to the light weight and smaller profile. Just like modern plate carriers do over older heavier bullet proof vests.

Is their a probability that HCBHs were procured keeping in mind a future acquistion of COMTACs (or any other similar thing) by MoD whenever it is viable? Because i think HCBHs would have cost more than ACHs and when the govt is already equippibg the forces with ACHs there was no need for high cuts (for saving money). Or is there some usual babunomics involved?

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Is their a probability that HCBHs were procured keeping in mind a future acquistion of COMTACs (or any other similar thing) by MoD whenever it is viable? Because i think HCBHs would have cost more than ACHs and when the govt is already equippibg the forces with ACHs there was no need for high cuts (for saving money). Or is there some usual babunomics involved?

The original batches of Team Wendy Exfil Highcuts came included with the helmet mounted Tonbo thermal/night vision devices as the tender specified they do so, since thermal and NVDs are heavy Tonbo or the tender itself may have asked specifically for a high cut helmet. Once soldiers were exposed to this helmet, they may have liked the lightness and more comfortable aspects of it, so commanders may have used their unit funds to buy additional high cut helmets of Team Wendy and other brands. For the Ghataks its exclusively from Tonbo IMO, I could be wrong though.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars VBSS.

 

[Tactical Doge]

Ya'll Nibbiars Sea Cats.


View attachment 109129

That is just VBSS bille!!!!!!

 

[Scramjet]

What advantages do high cuts have over ACHs? Is it only for plugging in COMTACS or something more?

Better weight distribution, better protection of vital areas and lightweight
FAST helmets were made to replace those skate pro tec helmets (still used while freefall)

The Barracks: The Pro-Tec Helmets and Special Operations Units

The first time I witness the power of the film Blackhawk Down, my wife and I had the same question... why were the Army's most elite ba...

futurewarstories.blogspot.com

 

[Fire and groove]

Soldiers being deaf from what? Firing a rifle or an RL? If ever someone needs a troop level communication system, that is only Artillery.

In a typical mission would you rather have a full acoustic awareness of what is going around or would you like to only listen to radio chatter and other mumbled up voices?

See... You guys are being heavy on your empathy wishing for things that you don't know how they are used. We never had the concept of a section of troops where everyone is included in the radio chatter. It is generally the commander of the section who gets the orders and he passes it on to his troops. Most of our Operations for infantry are conducted as such the troops are in audio visual contact reliant on vocal communication and sign language.

I'm asking you this honestly, where do you envisage the usage of such COMTACS.

And again our EEPs are vaguely laid out and the usage of radio communication is not well defined. We have abridged forms of communication amongst the troops starting from the top level to the sepoy on battlefield.

Are they cost effective? Thousands of rupees a piece is too much for us to invest and maintain. Maintenance is a pain.

And my reply was about the OP talking sarcastically and relating things that are actually having no link between then. COMTACS lagaana aur goli lagna????

BPJs are life savers. We never had that concept as well. Reluctance of troops to wear heavy BPJs and non availability of quality material was the major cause. But things are improving these days at a rapid pace.

With this kind of outlook, I have no doubt that some one will be sad on this forum sooner because our troops don't have frag suits for every one in army like Zaslan.

Whining is different from wishing.

"In a typical mission would you rather have a full acoustic awareness of what is going around or would you like to only listen to radio chatter and other mumbled up voices?"
- That's a false dichotomy, that tactical headsets are only capable of hearing protection and end up "muffling" ambient noise necessary for situational awareness is a misconception. Nothing could be further from the truth, tactical headsets like Peltors are not only capable of noise compression, they have omni-directional microphones integrated for complete situational awareness and can also ENHANCE them if configured to do so. That means users can enjoy an increase in awareness of softer noises like footsteps and leaves being brushed past from much further away as well as better sound localization while still reducing harmful sudden noises to safe levels. If you have an issue with increased situational awareness being "too loud or annoying", you can always configure them to have 1:1 input of ambient noises allowing you to hear exactly as you would without them, while still enjoying hearing protection.
In other words, we'd have troops who don't have their ears ringing from the first few shots (making them auditorily blind and partially deaf in chronic terms) and in fact have significantly better awareness than their non-initiated counter parts, along with clear and concise communications rather than having to scream out at the top of their lungs hoping the other team members hear them.

"See... You guys are being heavy on your empathy wishing for things that you don't know how they are used. We never had the concept of a section of troops where everyone is included in the radio chatter. It is generally the commander of the section who gets the orders and he passes it on to his troops. Most of our Operations for infantry are conducted as such the troops are in audio visual contact reliant on vocal communication and sign language."
- Sure, but you can't tell us that inter-team communication is non-existent either, that would just be a massive hindrance. How else would a section out on patrol communicate if one of the jawans has visual contact within the angle he's covering, especially if shots are fired and he's the only one who's localized the threat so far?

"And again our EEPs are vaguely laid out and the usage of radio communication is not well defined. We have abridged forms of communication amongst the troops starting from the top level to the sepoy on battlefield."
- Well that's a serious problem then. This is just asking for a breakdown in coordination, lack of clarity as well as inefficiency in conveying information amongst various elements. Might as well just co-opt the NATO system of tactical communication at that point.

"Are they cost effective? Thousands of rupees a piece is too much for us to invest and maintain. Maintenance is a pain."
- If we can spend 300 crore on meaningless purchases like equipping the airforce with AK-103s we most definitely can equip the entire Special operations spectrum for around 20 million USD, let alone the entire infantry which would take a billion dollars at best (around 1.2 billion) for a decent 3m peltor III headset (and that's after overpricing it by 2x at 2000 USD a piece with additional equipment, even though bulk orders are bound to reduce the price).

"BPJs are life savers. We never had that concept as well. Reluctance of troops to wear heavy BPJs and non availability of quality material was the major cause. But things are improving these days at a rapid pace."
- If BPJs are life savers, tactical headsets are force multiplying enablers that improve the combat capabilities of troops.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Comtacs amplify the surrounding noise and only muffle the louder noises to hearing safe levels.
It's not a sound muffling headset which only allows you to hear what the radio feeds. It improves situational awareness, not degrades it.

No sir, we do not demand frag suits like Zaslon, neither do we demand proper rebreather systems which don't give off bubbles, nor do we demand MOPP level 4 HAZMAT suits.

We understand those are special cases and can be obtained on a rapid level when the need arises, but we will demand what is considered a common piece of gear which will extend the longevity of our soldier's hearing.


But it's not uniform.
I actually never mentioned helmets. I believe helmets are being issued at a good pace, but having high cuts without comtacs defeats the purpose.

My generalization was in answer to @Yodha sir's generalization of "gaand mein ghusti goli".
Gaand mein ghusti goli ko toh kuch nahi rok sakta, toh kyu na bandook bhi na dein apne soldiers ko.
Talwaar de dete hain.

Not to mention him thinking COMTACs are nothing but cool looking headphones who will muffle ambient noise.
Comment ka context samjhein.


You guys honestly pissed off someone who had a lot to add to the quality of this thread and is a real old timer on this forum who regularly dropped caveats from acquainted serving members in the SOF community.

Meanwhile, what do you add to the thread?

This?
"Usko maar ke bhagya, ye naya aaya hashtag gucci gang"?

If you have a good point to add, do so. If not, ad hominems will earn only ad hominems.

Exactly my point, people dont seem to know what comtacs actually do.
Then they talk about how infantry doesnt need it, but we are talking about Special Forces the best of the best. The best of the best with sub saharan equipment.

 

[Scramjet]

The original batches of Team Wendy Exfil Highcuts came included with the helmet mounted Tonbo thermal/night vision devices as the tender specified they do so, since thermal and NVDs are heavy Tonbo or the tender itself may have asked specifically for a high cut helmet. Once soldiers were exposed to this helmet, they may have liked the lightness and more comfortable aspects of it, so commanders may have used their unit funds to buy additional high cut helmets of Team Wendy and other brands. For the Ghataks its exclusively from Tonbo IMO, I could be wrong though.

Here's pic from 2017-18, operative using opscore FAST, hence HCBHs might be procured as many operatives wouldve used these at some cross training / jt ex. With some foreign SF/SOF unit.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Here's pic from 2017-18, operative using opscore FAST, hence HCBHs might be procured as many operatives wouldve used these at some cross training / jt ex. With some foreign SF/SOF unit.

View attachment 109140

He is talking about the Team Wendy ones.