Indian Special Forces

Automatic Kalashnikov

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SBS trains with DEVGRU, SAS trains with Delta but they send vanilla GBs and SEALs to train with Indian units
Delta was based on SAS, in fact most sf are. Additionally US, UK both are part of an official military alliance which has gone to war in the past and the 4 units have actually operated along side each other.
 

JConline

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SBS trains with DEVGRU, SAS trains with Delta but they send vanilla GBs and SEALs to train with Indian units
That actually is fair. India doesn't have any unit that hold a candle to DEVGRU, Delta, SAS or SBS. MARCOS as good as they are, can be compared only with vanilla SEALs. Both in their mission profile and capabilities. So it is not surprising. Infact, it is a good thing that MARCOS are getting regular exposure to SEALs. Likewise, Para SF are getting regular exposure with Green Berets in Ex Vajra Prahar and not with Delta. Because both MARCOS and Para SF are comparable to Tier 2 specials forces of USSOCOM.
 

abingdonboy

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That actually is fair. India doesn't have any unit that hold a candle to DEVGRU, Delta, SAS or SBS. MARCOS as good as they are, can be compared only with vanilla SEALs. Both in their mission profile and capabilities. So it is not surprising. Infact, it is a good thing that MARCOS are getting regular exposure to SEALs. Likewise, Para SF are getting regular exposure with Green Berets in Ex Vajra Prahar and not with Delta. Because both MARCOS and Para SF are comparable to Tier 2 specials forces of USSOCOM.
I didn’t mean to say something different. This is exactly right. My comment was only aimed at the idea that Indian SF are seen as equals with the top units elsewhere. The treatment of Indian units says everything.

MARCOs went back to pre-2019 era with those beach landing ops
There is no ‘pre-2019’ this is 2022, this is their current setup. A few purpose purchased COMTACS didn’t change what MARCOs largely are.

India does what many fanboys accuse(d) China of- sending specially selected/trained/equipped contingents to take part in international exercises.
 

JConline

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Well atleast the Dual NODs and High cuts are standard. And also the plate carriers seem to be different between the eastern and western commands. One seems to have standardised the UCP Camo PC including the personnel Andaman and Nicobar and one seems to have standardised the black Armasen ones. Don't know which one has adopted which though. And the X95 seem to be replacing the Tavors as well.
 

Kumaoni

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Bhai none of them who were there when they were raised is serving is in service anymore as far as most of the SF units are concerned except 11,12 ,5,6 and 7.11, and 12 were made from scrach and deputation afaik. And the current lot of men in other SFs like 2,3,4 and 21 are selected based on the gruelling SF selection procedure just like 1,9/10.So there is no point in disbanding the entire SF units but over the time restructure the units and allocate more funds and streamline the procurement process and recruitment process.
As we have to look after china pakistan myanmar and bangladesh and also numerous terror groups in NE and J&K and all the CT ops can’t be done by RR or Ghatak units as you will need special units to do niche ops.So just two SF units alone can’t cover the whole scenarios.
The Insurgency in J&K is more of a crime game than actual insurgency anymore, where even police forces can boast about special operations. I mean, the fight with Wani lasted a mere 15 minutes. This cadre of Kashmiri Terrorist is a joke.

NE, haven’t heard of a major attack anywhere.

What exactly is the point of having an entire SF regiment when most of them are poorer equipped than the average US NRI enthusiast?

If Paras are an SF than the army should treat them as such, instead of handicapping them. There was time when Para SF would slaughter groups of 20-30 terrorists with only one causalty by surprising them.
 

Dom the Dumb

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I don’t even get the point. So because Paras have killed a lot of jihadis this means they don’t need good gear?

even RR and regular units are updating quite a bit but paras are standing still. This is a cultural issue inside the Para battalions but whenever it’s pointed out this red herring is pulled out. Some seem to forget SF is meant to be a strategic asset used against peers not a CT unit used on your own borders to conduct largely police operations
>Some seem to forget SF is meant to be a strategic asset used against peers not a CT unit used on your own borders to conduct largely police operations

This is just Army Top Brass being twats. What the Paras are doing is what the NSG was raised for and - if the NSGs modern equipment and training standards are anything to go by - they are far better at it than most Para battalions (with the exception of 4 and 9) will be.

Also, as a sidenote, it's really fucking shit that of 19 ParaSF battalions, only 2 are truly SOF capable and they're the go-to by the Army for any actual SOF operations (like 2015 or 2016)
 

Dom the Dumb

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Ok bhai
Then why was such dire situation of winter clothing
Coming Garuda and zorawar
Both are happening or might happen due to 2020 conflict
If thise things wouldn't have happen such projects were even in sight of army
If u r best in a particular warfare u must lead the trend
Forget following as that would have been better but what we are doing is catching up
So called inexperienced PLA was able to think of light tanks, howitzers, infra, salami slicing but we could
Now forget best or worst which has performed better
In regards to winter clothing - you are forgetting that the IA is penny wise, pound foolish.

We have enough winter clothing and snow camouflage for the soldiers deployed in Siachen and the soldiers regularly deployed along the LAC in Ladakh. The Army never thought to order or stock a significant surplus. So when the Chinese came along in 2020 and the Army had to deploy over 200k to the LAC in Ladakh, their shortfalls in stock were highlighted.

There is, on the other hand, no doubiting the profficiency of the Indian Army's mountain warfare troops. This is both by necessity and can be demonstrated by our troops out climbing and out pacing the PLA in 2020 to the tops of multiple peaks, forcing dialogue and disengagement. There is no other army in the world that is capable of the night-time (without an NVGs mind you) cliff assaults that the Indian infantry did in Kargil (once again, night time cliff assault without NVGs).
 

jai jaganath

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In regards to winter clothing - you are forgetting that the IA is penny wise, pound foolish.

We have enough winter clothing and snow camouflage for the soldiers deployed in Siachen and the soldiers regularly deployed along the LAC in Ladakh. The Army never thought to order or stock a significant surplus. So when the Chinese came along in 2020 and the Army had to deploy over 200k to the LAC in Ladakh, their shortfalls in stock were highlighted.

There is, on the other hand, no doubiting the profficiency of the Indian Army's mountain warfare troops. This is both by necessity and can be demonstrated by our troops out climbing and out pacing the PLA in 2020 to the tops of multiple peaks, forcing dialogue and disengagement. There is no other army in the world that is capable of the night-time (without an NVGs mind you) cliff assaults that the Indian infantry did in Kargil (once again, night time cliff assault without NVGs).
With due respect sir
I don't think it's something to be proud of
That climbing difficult terrain without nvgs it's rather foolishness
I am not denying the bravery and dedication of our jawans
But when it comes to efficiency Army stands nowhere
Forget it
Topic was experienced mountain warfare unit but u have not made it easier nor any trend nor anything drastic in equipments for betterment
With such bravery u can't win wars yes u could remembered for a time but what matters is whether u have won or not
Their attitude never shows that
 

Dom the Dumb

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With due respect sir
I don't think it's something to be proud of
That climbing difficult terrain without nvgs it's rather foolishness
I am not denying the bravery and dedication of our jawans
But when it comes to efficiency Army stands nowhere
Forget it
Topic was experienced mountain warfare unit but u have not made it easier nor any trend nor anything drastic in equipments for betterment
With such bravery u can't win wars yes u could remembered for a time but what matters is whether u have won or not
Their attitude never shows that
I will only respond to the first part of your response as the second part makes no sense and is confusing.

Yes, it is absolutely not something we should be proud of - it is foolish and increases risks. But that was not my point. My point was that our soldiers are almost certainly the best in the world at mountain warfare, in terms of training and experience alone. We need better equipment, I don't think I ever denied that. I am denying your assertion that having a lack of surplus somehow dents our capability
 

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