Indian Special Forces

WarmongerLSK

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2022
Messages
107
Likes
316
Country flag
In a way this is correct.
Para sf has proven its success as a ci/ct unit fighting untrained local militants and semi trained porki jihadis.

Para sf is successful ci/ct unit, but its not a successfull spec-ops unit by any means.

Para sf equipment,modus operandi,mandate and ttps indicate that sf is just a name that they have given themselves, while their capabilities resembles that of light infantry.
What is the difference b/w ci/ct vs spec-ops operations?
 

rkhanna

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
2,718
Likes
10,209
Country flag
There were anti infiltration grids post 1991, where terrorists were killed in the 20s, 40s, and once even 70s.
Anything in the 90s was adhoc and reactionary. Check with @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR . If i remember correctly his father was one of the first Officers when RR was being set up.

My family members who served during that time describe that time as lawless like the wild west, against an intelligent and battle hardened opfor.


Today jihadis hardly make it over the LOC
 

Kumaoni

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2022
Messages
4,357
Likes
14,525
Anything in the 90s was adhoc and reactionary. Check with @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR . If i remember correctly his father was one of the first Officers when RR was being set up.

My family members who served during that time describe that time as lawless like the wild west, against an intelligent and battle hardened opfor.


Today jihadis hardly make it over the LOC
Today, the Jihadis are basically teenage Kashmiri boys.

In the 90s, while it took larger time, saw numbers of successful operations, and like you mentioned; Ad hoc operations:
1. Operation Dudhi 1991 (71 Jihadis 💨⚰)
2. Operation “Sudharashan” (40+ Jehadis)⚰💨
DF4AD874-5546-4840-8592-7AD98740FD07.jpeg


Then here’s an example of an ad hoc operarion (when Pakistan occupied a POST in Poonch):
1CF01E85-230F-437E-AA30-A9063EAE1BE9.jpeg


So it seems like by the later portions of the 90s, the infiltration grid was securely set up.
 

Kumaoni

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2022
Messages
4,357
Likes
14,525
What is the difference b/w ci/ct vs spec-ops operations?
Counter Insurgency and Counter Terrorism deals with insurgencies, and usually involve forces from local police to even special forces.

Spec Ops are special operations which only special forces are supposed to be able to do, can include variety of things (surgical strikes, infiltration, raids on logistic bases, rescue operations, etc)
 

WarmongerLSK

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2022
Messages
107
Likes
316
Country flag
Counter Insurgency and Counter Terrorism deals with insurgencies, and usually involve forces from local police to even special forces.

Spec Ops are special operations which only special forces are supposed to be able to do, can include variety of things (surgical strikes, infiltration, raids on logistic bases, rescue operations, etc)
So, CI/CT are when we fight on our own turf, the insurgents/terrorists will come here and we kill them here. And Spec Ops are done in the enemy territory where the enemy has the upper hand.
 

rkhanna

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
2,718
Likes
10,209
Country flag
Today, the Jihadis are basically teenage Kashmiri boys.

In the 90s, while it took larger time, saw numbers of successful operations, and like you mentioned; Ad hoc operations:
1. Operation Dudhi 1991 (71 Jihadis 💨⚰)
2. Operation “Sudharashan” (40+ Jehadis)⚰💨View attachment 183724

Then here’s an example of an ad hoc operarion (when Pakistan occupied a POST in Poonch):
View attachment 183725

So it seems like by the later portions of the 90s, the infiltration grid was securely set up.
The early / mid 90s were extremely tough - our kill ratio was horrendous compared to Today. (We went through a slump again in the mid 2000s FYI)

As a young 13/14 year old first time i think i understood death via those funerals i went to
 

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
6,367
Likes
24,456
Country flag
In a way this is correct.
Para sf has proven its success as a ci/ct unit fighting untrained local militants and semi trained porki jihadis.

Para sf is successful ci/ct unit, but its not a successfull spec-ops unit by any means.

Para sf equipment,modus operandi,mandate and ttps indicate that sf is just a name that they have given themselves, while their capabilities resembles that of light infantry.
I don’t even get the point. So because Paras have killed a lot of jihadis this means they don’t need good gear?

even RR and regular units are updating quite a bit but paras are standing still. This is a cultural issue inside the Para battalions but whenever it’s pointed out this red herring is pulled out. Some seem to forget SF is meant to be a strategic asset used against peers not a CT unit used on your own borders to conduct largely police operations
 

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
6,367
Likes
24,456
Country flag
Well it didn’t get any better when they got ‘kitted up’

wtf are those leg holsters? I don’t think I’ve ever seen any as cheap and distorted looking as those things

also……..that’s a night sight being used in the day with the front cap on right? I mean do they even think about anything beyond PR pics anymore? They must enjoy being ridiculed by actual professionals

E4F26572-776C-4BA8-A200-02D9ECB5771E.jpeg


3D4D7EE3-EC5C-48FF-8154-322A2D7F7CE8.jpeg
 

jai jaganath

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2022
Messages
1,190
Likes
2,178
Country flag
Well it didn’t get any better when they got ‘kitted up’

wtf are those leg holsters? I don’t think I’ve ever seen any as cheap and distorted looking as those things

also……..that’s a night sight being used in the day with the front cap on right? I mean do they even think about anything beyond PR pics anymore? They must enjoy being ridiculed by actual professionals

View attachment 183749

View attachment 183750
Are they garuds from recent exercise
 

Alamarathan

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2022
Messages
718
Likes
2,541
Well it didn’t get any better when they got ‘kitted up’

wtf are those leg holsters? I don’t think I’ve ever seen any as cheap and distorted looking as those things

also……..that’s a night sight being used in the day with the front cap on right? I mean do they even think about anything beyond PR pics anymore? They must enjoy being ridiculed by actual professionals

View attachment 183749

View attachment 183750
None of them seems to have comms and ear pro's,how will they coordinate while doing an op
 

NotASussyBoi

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
987
Likes
2,602
Country flag
Well it didn’t get any better when they got ‘kitted up’

wtf are those leg holsters? I don’t think I’ve ever seen any as cheap and distorted looking as those things

also……..that’s a night sight being used in the day with the front cap on right? I mean do they even think about anything beyond PR pics anymore? They must enjoy being ridiculed by actual professionals

View attachment 183749

View attachment 183750
the only hope i have is that the new generation will have some tactical civic and a better gdp will give them new ar 15's
 

jai jaganath

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2022
Messages
1,190
Likes
2,178
Country flag
the only hope i have is that the new generation will have some tactical civic and a better gdp will give them new ar 15's
U r very knowledgeable and respected member
But I want to say the rifle is not the only issue
Issue is kit and I hope u understood what I meant to day
I am bere not saying that tavors are good rather I don't like them personally but the point is giving them ar with current kits will not change anything
Even with tavors if u provide them better kits and training things will change a lot for good
 

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
6,367
Likes
24,456
Country flag
the only hope i have is that the new generation will have some tactical civic and a better gdp will give them new ar 15's
The equipment levels comes doctrine. India has no SF doctrine hence this pathetic situation.

GDP won’t fix the problem and any gains there have preemptively been wiped out by IA brass expanding PARA SF numbers far beyond the relative GDP increase for the next 5 years.

if the doctrine was in place everything else would follow. There’s a reason SPG with a singular purpose and a very defined mandate with rigid SOPs (blue book) is perhaps the only world class elite unit in India
 

NotASussyBoi

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
987
Likes
2,602
Country flag
U r very knowledgeable and respected member
But I want to say the rifle is not the only issue
Issue is kit and I hope u understood what I meant to day
I am bere not saying that tavors are good rather I don't like them personally but the point is giving them ar with current kits will not change anything
Even with tavors if u provide them better kits and training things will change a lot for good
yeah true, with abingdonboy's information ,it seems idiotic to be optimistic for para sf now
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top