Indian Special Forces

thefewthefearless

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2021
Messages
260
Likes
843
Country flag
Another day, another moronic comment from an ignorant civilian putting down other civilians with his own "expertise" on the nature of war. For starters, war or not, war crimes and extra judicial killings don't serve any purpose and are in fact detrimental to that end. Standardizing executions of POWs and beheadings in turn means the enemy is going to do just the same to your MIA, and will be far more prone to fighting to death as opposed to surrendering. Then their's the psychological impact of condoning sadism wirhin a military unit, and the resultant risk of expansion.
yea man. my comment could've been more polite but i still stand w/ it. india has never been the first one to committ such heinous act. but i believe the retaliation was justified.
 

ALBY

Section Moderator
Mod
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
3,063
Likes
5,233
Country flag
Without Myanmar support we cannot do this at all.
Yes, I support this notion of yours.


I would choose 21 SF operators as they are the experts of this area and the terrain.

In and out is not the question as it will be only with Myanmar support or it wont be there if there is no support.

after Recon the question of execution comes which will be best with 21 and maybe a secondary unit which can be 12.


Why not a team which conists a majority of 21 PARA SF and the rest, best of the best drawn from other units like SG, NSG, 9, 12 or even crpf commandos who are fighting in jungles ?
It's not like the team woul need to walk towards the objective... they would be para dropped and the fight would beigin.Let's say after securing the hostages, 21 PARA SF would act as a navigator till the group reaches Thailand border.
Crpf commandos?😂.the kinda environment is totally different and even if you want a commando unit with best jungle warfare skills then its greyhounds.But they are not at all designed for such ops but small platoon level recon,search and destroy kinda ops. only Para could do this eventhough NSG recently had started jungle warfare but is doubtful oftheir capabilities.
 

vidhwanshak

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2021
Messages
1,681
Likes
7,943
Country flag
Crpf commandos?😂.the kinda environment is totally different and even if you want a commando unit with best jungle warfare skills then its greyhounds.But they are not at all designed for such ops but small platoon level recon,search and destroy kinda ops. only Para could do this eventhough NSG recently had started jungle warfare but is doubtful oftheir capabilities.
I wrote crpf commandos because they have seen action in Meghalaya.
67 BN CRPF is posted there all around the year fighting garoland terrorists there.

Creating a new unit is different from slapping different guys from different units together. SG doesn't has this issue just as proof
Then the problem lies in interoperability. And it is understandable as you won't be trusting the guy you hven't trained with.
 

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
6,378
Likes
24,525
Country flag
Over estimation of NSG and underestimation of Para SF.

First of all, without airborne assets there is no way NSG would make it to the target.

Secondly, even if they reach this will be jungle warfare and not urban op. Which i doubt how better NSG would be over Para Sf and specially 21.

Then, Para SF has done many of these ops in the last 30 years from Kashmir to Africa and also in north east.

Nobody called NSG ever for these ops.. GOCs dont have their number. (sarcasm)except for maybe one or two times.

NSG has no intel and there is no way 21 would be called in for intel only.
I already said if it’s an urban op NSG would be a better option, a jungle mission is a different story. No matter what we might think PARA SF are not a hostage rescue force

+ GOCs protecting their turf is hardly surprising. The same geniuses have let NSG teams sit in Srinagar whilst they sent SF teams to be slaughtered in daytime HR ops
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
3,365
Likes
14,684
Country flag
I already said if it’s an urban op NSG would be a better option, a jungle mission is a different story. No matter what we might think PARA SF are not a hostage rescue force

+ GOCs protecting their turf is hardly surprising. The same geniuses have let NSG teams sit in Srinagar whilst they sent SF teams to be slaughtered in daytime HR ops
Again over estimation of NSG.

Till date there has been no NSG operation where they have finished the job on time or early.

A lot of times we out of respect dont criticise them but what happened we all know.

GOCs calling NSG for fighting in Hafruda and Lolab will only humble NSG.Also to be part of Urban ops in Kashmir you need to be permanently deployed.

No one is gonna say hey boy.. i got this trap.. get some blood on you expensive gloves and pose on TV just like Marcos in 26/11... units spend months in Kashmir to get a single kill... this is not a langar.

And

There can never be a comparison between a unit made up of volunteers who joined for nothing but sacrifice and a unit which is a picnic posting on a peaceful location for 3 years made up of troops from all branches.
 

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
6,378
Likes
24,525
Country flag
I don't think that such emotion will be welcomed in AFSOD(provided that it materializes one day).
For the Nth time AFSOD is not a tri-service SOF unit. It was a trail C&C experiment that has largely been shelved

you were never going to see mixed teams of Garuds/MARCOs/Paras. Not even JSOC does stuff like this. A DEVGRU team is a DEVGRU team, a Delta a Delta. JSOC is a COMMAND, not a unit. AFSOD was a mini mini SOCOM when they were trying to get theatrisation to be a thing. That seems to have died with the CDS
 

Kumaoni

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2022
Messages
4,365
Likes
14,560
I already said if it’s an urban op NSG would be a better option, a jungle mission is a different story. No matter what we might think PARA SF are not a hostage rescue force

+ GOCs protecting their turf is hardly surprising. The same geniuses have let NSG teams sit in Srinagar whilst they sent SF teams to be slaughtered in daytime HR ops
Wdym by "slaughtered"
 

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
6,378
Likes
24,525
Country flag
Again over estimation of NSG.

Till date there has been no NSG operation where they have finished the job on time or early.

A lot of times we out of respect dont criticise them but what happened we all know.

GOCs calling NSG for fighting in Hafruda and Lolab will only humble NSG.Also to be part of Urban ops in Kashmir you need to be permanently deployed.

No one is gonna say hey boy.. i got this trap.. get some blood on you expensive gloves and pose on TV just like Marcos in 26/11... units spend months in Kashmir to get a single kill... this is not a langar.

And

There can never be a comparison between a unit made up of volunteers who joined for nothing but sacrifice and a unit which is a picnic posting on a peaceful location for 3 years made up of troops from all branches.
What does on time mean? They’ve done what’s been asked of them. I’ve outlined previously that I don’t consider NSG a top tier CT unit because it doesn’t have the professionalism inherent to do so (thanks to deputation nature).

but they have the ethos and mandate as well as the structure.

fundamentally there’s no one perfect for this job in india just the lesser of devils.

+ the situations I’m talking about replying NSG in JK are not CASO Ops but those incidents that have been legitimate urban HR situations that IA has sent SF into and more often than not it’s been a bloodbath
 

Kumaoni

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2022
Messages
4,365
Likes
14,560
Again over estimation of NSG.

Till date there has been no NSG operation where they have finished the job on time or early.

A lot of times we out of respect dont criticise them but what happened we all know.

GOCs calling NSG for fighting in Hafruda and Lolab will only humble NSG.Also to be part of Urban ops in Kashmir you need to be permanently deployed.

No one is gonna say hey boy.. i got this trap.. get some blood on you expensive gloves and pose on TV just like Marcos in 26/11... units spend months in Kashmir to get a single kill... this is not a langar.

And

There can never be a comparison between a unit made up of volunteers who joined for nothing but sacrifice and a unit which is a picnic posting on a peaceful location for 3 years made up of troops from all branches.
He's totally right about this. Para SF is not a hostage rescue force, and it's purpose has never been such. It is more of a SF for conventional conflicts against Pakistan and China, and it's history shows. NSG on the other hand has done several successful operations in urban settings be it Black Thunder I & II, Black Tornado, etc. Matter of fact the purpose that NSG was these kind of operations only, after Bluestar.
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
3,365
Likes
14,684
Country flag
What does on time mean? They’ve done what’s been asked of them. I’ve outlined previously that I don’t consider NSG a top tier CT unit because it doesn’t have the professionalism inherent to do so (thanks to deputation nature).

but they have the ethos and mandate as well as the structure.

fundamentally there’s no one perfect for this job in india just the lesser of devils.

+ the situations I’m talking about replying NSG in JK are not CASO Ops but those incidents that have been legitimate urban HR situations that IA has sent SF into and more often than not it’s been a bloodbath
on time means not taking days like in Akshardham and mumbai.
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
3,365
Likes
14,684
Country flag
He's totally right about this. Para SF is not a hostage rescue force, and it's purpose has never been such. It is more of a SF for conventional conflicts against Pakistan and China, and it's history shows. NSG on the other hand has done several successful operations in urban settings be it Black Thunder I & II, Black Tornado, etc. Matter of fact the purpose that NSG was these kind of operations only, after Bluestar.
And who rescued Gorkha rifles in Africa? NSG... and what about countless hostage situation ops in Kashmir where NSG is too far to call... all done by Para.

If Wikipedia is the source then only the comment can be made.
 

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
6,378
Likes
24,525
Country flag
on time means not taking days like in Akshardham and mumbai.
Ah come on man don’t go for that. The biggest time loss was because 1) IAF’s alert aircraft are Russian junk that weren’t ready when called on in Delhi so had to be flown in from Agra 2) because of small ‘**** scumbag politicians wanting to be on the same flight as NSG going to Mumbai the plane was sat on the tarmac for a neta to turn up

NSG/MHA didn’t have a credible rapid mobilisation plan on 26/11 and what they did have was a disaster. This isn’t the case today by the way. Once NSG arrived in the scene not a single civilian lost their life.

Additionally NSG had managed to corner the terrorists and their goal was to capture one alive which would’ve been a huge win, the Pak handlers told their scum to not be captured alive (thank god for Omble and kasab)
 

Kumaoni

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2022
Messages
4,365
Likes
14,560
And who rescued Gorkha rifles in Africa? NSG... and what about countless hostage situation ops in Kashmir where NSG is too far to call... all done by Para.

If Wikipedia is the source then only the comment can be made.
Rescuing besieged military men and rescuing hostage civilians are two totally different ballgames. Even regulars have helped in extrication throughout India's wars, what we are talking off, however, is 300 civlians. Not 1 or 10 but 300. Has Para done anything like Black Tornado where hundreds of hostages were rescued?
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
3,365
Likes
14,684
Country flag
Ah come on man don’t go for that. The biggest time loss was because 1) IAF’s alert aircraft are Russian junk that weren’t ready when called on in Delhi so had to be flown in from Agra 2) because of small ‘**** scumbag politicians wanting to be on the same flight as NSG going to Mumbai the plane was sat on the tarmac for a neta to turn up

NSG/MHA didn’t have a credible rapid mobilisation plan on 26/11 and what they did have was a disaster. This isn’t the case today by the way. Once NSG arrived in the scene not a single civilian lost their life.

Additionally NSG had managed to corner the terrorists and their goal was to capture one alive which would’ve been a huge win, the Pak handlers told their scum to not be captured alive (thank god for Omble and kasab)
i wont go deeper coz of sensitive nature of indians but go and properly watch any good documentary on 26/11.It was pretty clear where the terrorists were.
 

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
6,378
Likes
24,525
Country flag
And who rescued Gorkha rifles in Africa? NSG... and what about countless hostage situation ops in Kashmir where NSG is too far to call... all done by Para.

If Wikipedia is the source then only the comment can be made.
Not all hostage rescues are the same same. NSG didn’t make sense in Africa

and since ~2015 NSG has had a unit permanently forward deployed in JK for training JKP/CRPF and also if needed for HR- IA just refuses to use them
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
3,365
Likes
14,684
Country flag
Rescuing besieged military men and rescuing hostage civilians are two totally different ballgames. Even regulars have helped in extrication throughout India's wars, what we are talking off, however, is 300 civlians. Not 1 or 10 but 300. Has Para done anything like Black Tornado where hundreds of hostages were rescued?
NSG would never even reach the target in a thick jungle forget about rescuing in the first place.

Secondly, I am shocked you have no idea about Para rescuing civilians in kashmir in ops.
 

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
6,378
Likes
24,525
Country flag
i wont go deeper coz of sensitive nature of indians but go and properly watch any good documentary on 26/11.It was pretty clear where the terrorists were.
Pretty sure I’ve watched every documentary on 26/11 there is. Aside from the slow mobilisation of NSG there’s not much to fault them for really. They cleared 1000+ rooms spread over 3 locations fighting unknown enemy and rescuing unknown civilians with the possibility of IEDs in every corner (remember they’d already blown up a local taxi on the night)
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top