Indian Special Forces

abingdonboy

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Yeah, the Garuds can go in with their DLSRs after the Para SF has done it job for Instagram pics.
Whilst it would make no sense to send Garuds to be the lead element for such an op (it’s not their primary role), Paras would be a liability too if this is a complex hostage rescue op. That is absolutely not what Paras are trained for and they could make a bloody mess of the whole thing.

as I’ve stated previously india isn’t prepared for such a contingency, the best it would have to hand is an ad hoc mission with NSG but even that isn’t risk free or optimal because I doubt NSG have prepared much to operate on foreign soil for prolonged periods (A quick strike at a foreign airport is an entirely different scenario)
 

Kumaoni

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Whilst it would make no sense to send Garuds to be the lead element for such an op (it’s not their primary role), Paras would be a liability too if this is a complex hostage rescue op. That is absolutely not what Paras are trained for and they could make a bloody mess of the whole thing.

as I’ve stated previously india isn’t prepared for such a contingency, the best it would have to hand is an ad hoc mission with NSG but even that isn’t risk free or optimal because I doubt NSG have prepared much to operate on foreign soil for prolonged periods (A quick strike at a foreign airport is an entirely different scenario)
NSG makes the most sense. Its designed for complex situations. Para SF is more of a conventional raiding force. Garuds are airbase defenders (right?). The only rescue operation para SF did was Op Cactus Lilly, but that was a whole different type of op. Only MARCOS (with the Somali pirates) and NSG (26/11, operarion black thunder which resulted in the surrender of 200 militants with 0 damage to the Golden Temple).
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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Whilst it would make no sense to send Garuds to be the lead element for such an op (it’s not their primary role), Paras would be a liability too if this is a complex hostage rescue op. That is absolutely not what Paras are trained for and they could make a bloody mess of the whole thing.

as I’ve stated previously india isn’t prepared for such a contingency, the best it would have to hand is an ad hoc mission with NSG but even that isn’t risk free or optimal because I doubt NSG have prepared much to operate on foreign soil for prolonged periods (A quick strike at a foreign airport is an entirely different scenario)
I dont think NSG would survive and pull off this operation in NE.

Plus 21 has all the network.


@rkhanna What do u think bro?
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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NSG makes the most sense. Its designed for complex situations. Para SF is more of a conventional raiding force. Garuds are airbase defenders (right?). The only rescue operation para SF did was Op Cactus Lilly, but that was a whole different type of op. Only MARCOS (with the Somali pirates) and NSG (26/11, operarion black thunder which resulted in the surrender of 200 militants with 0 damage to the Golden Temple).
Para has done many such ops.. most famous one being in Africa. rescuing Gorkha rifles.
 

rkhanna

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I dont think NSG would survive and pull off this operation in NE.

Plus 21 has all the network.


@rkhanna What do u think bro?
21 only. Noone else has the skill set to pull this off. The hostages are not traditionally held all in one place under heavy armed guard awaiting a rescue op. LRRP and CTR then assault with a large group. Rescue Op + infra destruction+ HVTs capture/SSE .

IMO the presense of a "non state" cyber capability right at our door step is a very significant development as much (if not more) of an issue as terror pads across the LOC. These setups are PLA supported.

For all the above reasons + terrain + human int etc 21SF with maybe a Helo borne DA unit - SG? Would do the trick.
 

vidhwanshak

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I am afraid that all your brainstorming is going to be in vain because in my humble opinion saving all 300 hostages is a task as difficult as ascending to the heavens.
First, your numbers are limited and the terrorist(I am assuming Manipur PLA here) are in their home base having numbers much higher than you. And it's not like Myanmar will allow your helicopters in its territory to bomb these terrorist right?
Secondly, let's assume by god's grace you end up securing 300 of those hostages then what after that? Will you take them on a bus or make them run to the nearest airport or a landing strip? In any of the mentioned scenarios, many people will be killed. PLA is trained and organized like the armed forces they would have many checkposts they will regroup and kill you.

By any means, I am not belittling your attempts but I feel the way this war game discussion is not up to the mark.
We should start with a few fundamental questions before discussing which unit will take part and which will not:

1. Role of Myanmar:
Myanmar is not a pushover. We should first decide which side Myanmar stands on. If it's on our side then will it aid us or will it be a mute spectator? If not, then what should be the game plan?

2. Terrorist:
Organistaion of terrorist will matter a lot. If they belong to grps like PLA then difficulty will increase manyfolds.

3. Mode of transport
Will you use aircraft to transport the hostages to India? If yes, how will make sure those 300 reach the aircraft? running jogging? What is the neareast airport/landing strip blah blah blah many such scenario.

We shouldn't make this war game a next Eagle Claw
What do you say @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR ?
 
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abingdonboy

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hostages are hostages.
Nah not really. If they are deep in the jungles held in huts and such then 21 SF are probably the best to send.

but if they are in an urban setting spread across multiple targets where booby traps/IEDs and civilians are present then no one gets even close to NSG.

I made the point that NSG aren’t really designed to operate in non-permissive environments and thus a SF force could be of use to support them although the NSG does have *some* SOPs to tackle this (SRG and their support weapons squadron) but it’s not really designed to go abroad.

as previously stated- india is not setup with a perfect or clear option, everything will be a compromise. But I will say PARA SF shouldn’t be viewed as a hostage rescue force in any shape or form.
 

Kumaoni

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Most guys would say nsg based on their profile..

I would put the team that has the most chances of surving and reaching the target...

Then comes execution...
Will depend on the location/setting of the hostages. In jungle huts, 21 Para SF is the best option. In an Urban setting, then NSG is the most dominant.
 

abingdonboy

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I am afraid that all your brainstorming is going to be in vain because in my humble opinion saving all 300 hostages is a task as difficult as ascending to the heavens.
First, your numbers are limited and the terrorist(I am assuming Manipur PLA here) are in their home base having numbers much higher than you. And it's not like Myanmar will allow your helicopters in its territory to bomb these terrorist right?
Secondly, let's assume by god's grace you end up securing 300 of those hostages then what after that? Will you take them on a bus or make them run to the nearest airport or a landing strip? In any of the mentioned scenarios, many people will be killed. PLA is trained and organized like the armed forces they would have many checkposts they will regroup and kill you.

By any means, I am not belittling your attempts but I feel the way this war game discussion is not up to the mark.
We should start with a few fundamental questions before discussing which unit will take part and which will not:

1. Role of Myanmar:
Myanmar is not a pushover. We should first decide which side Myanmar stands on. If it's on our side then will it aid us or will it be a mute spectator? If not, then what should be the game plan?

2. Terrorist:
Organistaion of terrorist will matter a lot. If they belong to grps like PLA then difficulty will increase manyfolds.

3. Mode of transport
Will you use aircraft to transport the hostages to India? If yes, how will make sure those 300 reach the aircraft? running jogging? What is the neareast airport/landing strip blah blah blah many such scenario.

We shouldn't make this war game a next Eagle Claw
What do you say @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR ?
If you can’t even launch a hostage rescue op on a neighbouring country with the kind of military and economic disparity present between india and Myanmar then it says everything about India’s strategic culture.

operation eagle claw was outrageously audacious in its scope- creating a FARP deep behind enemy lines and then planning to land c130s into stadiums to fly hostages out using rockets, you need to risk it to win sometimes

That said not wanting to repeat mistakes by others is also not a policy to follow- it makes you timid and weak. From failure you grow and learn. After operation eagle claw JSOC was created.

perhaps india needs something like a Grenada of their own, use its forces so overwhelmingly to demonstrate power, validate tactics and impose a war fighting culture on a largely peacetime military.
 
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abingdonboy

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Eye relief?

bipod but no magnification?

same [email protected] FLC, not even a decent PC

3(?) different camo patterns?

progress is progress but when these things happen why can’t they be implemented with a degree of professionalism? Almost at every opportunity the Indian security apparatus demonstrates it is full of amateurs
 

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