Indian Special Forces

abingdonboy

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Maybe, but as time goes on, I'm growing appreciative of the rather "loose" nature of deputation among our SOFs.
NSG's skillset and SG's skillset pooling into the Paras feels like a really, REALLY sensible move, especially since they seem to lack a dedicated CQB school and SG more than probably trains heavily on what the westerners call FID. Permanent cadre won't hurt but for some reason, it seems like the Indian outfits which have a temporary deputation manning their ranks seem to get the best gear and the most sophisticated training pipeline.
Just look at NSG.
The cons outweigh the pros. Have we really seen such cross pollination? Have we seen NSG guys going back and elevating the capacities of PARA (SF)? we've seen CAPFs going from SPG and creating changes in their parent units


The downsides of not having a permanent cadre for specialist units like SG and NSG (the former even more so) are immense. How do you ensure institutional learning in that scenario or even proficiency? Within 3 years every single guy that took part in 26/11 was no longer a member of NSG. Contrast this to the top top units in the West- they have a nucleus of highly experienced members (usually NCOs) who have been around for decades in that unit, they ensure progression, standards and above all else continuity. The deputationist model made sense maybe in the 1970s/80s when trained manpower was at a premium and these kind of specialist units were still finding their feet but it should never have become the feature of these units, such outfits demand experience.
 

abingdonboy

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No apparently they aren't even commandos, they should change the maroon beret to the rainbow one.

It's not like they ever accomplished a mission of significance. Haven't you heard African Bush militia has more military honors.
Lol, that they wear maroon berets is emblematic of the problem. They inherited maroon berets from the British army who use maroon berets for their airborne infantry battalions (most prominent of them being the Parachute regiment)

What other legitimate SFs use the maroon beret? it's used world over for airborne infantry. Why are PARA SF still part of the para regiment? what does Para mean? Why are so many airborne battalions converting to 'SF'? What does this say about your SF capability to begin with? Once again the 'SF' community is about to be flush with career infantry/airborne men/officers, this is going to make them more SF capable?

Live in a fool's paradise if you like but those of us that are awake can see this for what it is. Of the most prominent SF missions carried out in the last 3 decades, what Indian unit could have been used for this?
 

Scramjet

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Lol, that they wear maroon berets is emblematic of the problem. They inherited maroon berets from the British army who use maroon berets for their airborne infantry battalions (most prominent of them being the Parachute regiment)

What other legitimate SFs use the maroon beret?
Idk if you consider the following units legitimate SOF/SFs :

-Sayeret matkal and several other israeli SF units https://sofrep.com/specialoperations/israels-sayeret-matkal/
-ANA Cdo Bde
-USAF Pararescue and Combat Rescue Officers
-SSG(army,navy and airforce) of padosi mulk
-Spetsnaz units under MVD IIRC
-Indonesian KOPASKA
 

abingdonboy

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Idk if you consider the following units legitimate SOF/SFs :

-Sayeret matkal and several other israeli SF units https://sofrep.com/specialoperations/israels-sayeret-matkal/
-ANA Cdo Bde
-USAF Pararescue and Combat Rescue Officers
-SSG(army,navy and airforce) of padosi mulk
-Spetsnaz units under MVD IIRC
-Indonesian KOPASKA
You are scraping the barrel pretty hard to make your point if you have to include Pakis and afghans

Either way my point stands like it or not.
 

Keyboard Warrior

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Lol, that they wear maroon berets is emblematic of the problem. They inherited maroon berets from the British army who use maroon berets for their airborne infantry battalions (most prominent of them being the Parachute regiment)

What other legitimate SFs use the maroon beret? it's used world over for airborne infantry. Why are PARA SF still part of the para regiment? what does Para mean? Why are so many airborne battalions converting to 'SF'? What does this say about your SF capability to begin with? Once again the 'SF' community is about to be flush with career infantry/airborne men/officers, this is going to make them more SF capable?

Live in a fool's paradise if you like but those of us that are awake can see this for what it is. Of the most prominent SF missions carried out in the last 3 decades, what Indian unit could have been used for this?
Although I agree with lots of your stands but your beret point is stupid , every specialized military unit has a legacy connected to uniform , Its a matter of pride when you get to wear same beret as that of legends that came before you, and frankly no one gives a shit what beret we are wearing or if other non airborne units are wearing the same or not ,your point about sf bring part of parachute regi and airborne to sf conversion are correct.
 

abingdonboy

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Although I agree with lots of your stands but your beret point is stupid , every specialized military unit has a legacy connected to uniform , Its a matter of pride when you get to wear same beret as that of legends that came before you, and frankly no one gives a shit what beret we are wearing or if other non airborne units are wearing the same or not ,your point about sf bring part of parachute regi and airborne to sf conversion are correct.
You’re missing my point. I’m saying that the maroon beret is used the world over for airborne infantry, it is even the same in the Indian army- there are many airborne qualified infantry/support arms they wear the maroon beret but aren’t SF.

That the Indian ‘SF’ haven’t been able to break away from this conventional legacy and create their own SF identity is what has allowed their capabilities to be stunted and now for conventional units to ‘convert’ themselves into ‘SF’

All these years it was apparent that the IA’s SF being part of the parachute regiment was an issue and look how that has transpired.

When everyone is special, no one is. Things are so bad now that some have to point out that specific battalions are still ‘SF’, because that’s how these things work
 

Keyboard Warrior

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You’re missing my point. I’m saying that the maroon beret is used the world over for airborne infantry, it is even the same in the Indian army- there are many airborne qualified infantry/support arms they wear the maroon beret but aren’t SF.

That the Indian ‘SF’ haven’t been able to break away from this conventional legacy and create their own SF identity is what has allowed their capabilities to be stunted and now for conventional units to ‘convert’ themselves into ‘SF’

All these years it was apparent that the IA’s SF being part of the parachute regiment was an issue and look how that has transpired.

When everyone is special, no one is. Things are so bad now that some have to point out that specific battalions are still ‘SF’, because that’s how these things work
Oh ok , Well IAs'SF indeed is going through a tough identity crisis, I really dont think that new sf battalions are going to be respected as sf units by older ones , although there was no central pipeline for whole para sf but older battalion pipelines look defined and good to seprate out talent while I can bet that most personel of new sf units would not have been able to make it to the end of probation in most old units.Hope IA make centralised system and classify mandate of newer unit with support task and prioritise modernisation of older units .

images.jpeg
 

abingdonboy

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Oh ok , Well IAs'SF indeed is going through a tough identity crisis, I really dont think that new sf battalions are going to be respected as sf units by older ones , although there was no central pipeline for whole para sf but older battalion pipelines look defined and good to seprate out talent while I can bet that most personel of new sf units would not have been able to make it to the end of probation in most old units.Hope IA make centralised system and classify mandate of newer unit with support task and prioritise modernisation of older units .

View attachment 167955
For things to get better it’s going to have to get worse, a lot worse and they are only just starting out on that process. Sadly it’ll only be from abject calamity and failures that cannot be denied to the public that any meaningful change will emerge for the good.

we’ve seen that left to their own devices IA will only erode its elite capabilities.

relying on the ‘older’ SF battalions to enforce some kind of informal code when there is no standardisation nor central selection/training is clutching at straws to say the least.

it’s a numbers game, PARA ‘SF’s’ strength is now overwhelmingly made up of airborne soldiers so the majority will always win out and raise through the ranks. This is the story that’s been playing out since the last expansion and look where that has gone.


MARCOs may be the only legitimate SOF capable force in india, let’s hope they can somehow keep away from these tendencies
 

Immanuel

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Live in a fool's paradise if you like but those of us that are awake can see this for what it is. Of the most prominent SF missions carried out in the last 3 decades, what Indian unit could have been used for this?
How about you list the most prominent SF operations of the last 3 decades and I can respond?
 

Kumaoni

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I fancy the idea of having a specific regiment like PARA SF which are battalion sized Ghataks. They should be designed specifically for combat OPs like raids, strikes, and infiltration. Let the rescuing shit be in the hands of NSG and MARCOS
 

EternalNxg

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Whem
You’re missing my point. I’m saying that the maroon beret is used the world over for airborne infantry, it is even the same in the Indian army- there are many airborne qualified infantry/support arms they wear the maroon beret but aren’t SF.

That the Indian ‘SF’ haven’t been able to break away from this conventional legacy and create their own SF identity is what has allowed their capabilities to be stunted and now for conventional units to ‘convert’ themselves into ‘SF’

All these years it was apparent that the IA’s SF being part of the parachute regiment was an issue and look how that has transpired.

When everyone is special, no one is. Things are so bad now that some have to point out that specific battalions are still ‘SF’, because that’s how these things work
When everyone is special, No one is......... Could this be any more accurate after all of the Airborne Battalions converted to SF? The IA Special forces now feel like an airborne unit imo, feel free to disagree.
 

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