Indian Special Forces

Killbot

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Where does Operation Khukri rank among these? That was conducted 20 years ago by Para SF.
Op Khukri was the best Op conducted by Para SF. But, like you said, 20 years ago. Things have changed now. We borrowed RAF transport aircraft at the time. And, the rebels weren't capable of shooting down a chopper, which made CAS viable. (Mi 25).
As for comparing it to the ops by USSOCOM in Syria, Khukri wasn't a raid on an enemy position. It was a Hostage rescue operation. Different beast. Cannot be compared. Still, one fine op. But, it couldn't be done with the same tech today.
If they had to conduct an op with as much complexity today, I don't think they could, as they are behind on technology. Even terrorists have jammers, basic comint capability, and means to take out aircraft. More importantly, they are better trained. We have to upgrade our tech, especially in terms of Comm equipment.. And Night fighting capability, ballistic protection, etc.
 

armyofhind

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The Mujahideen who fought the Soviets became the Taliban. OBL, Mohammad Omar, Ayman al-Zwahiri, etc led the Mujahideen.
The entirety of the Mujahideen didnt become Taliban. It started from Mohammad Omar and the ones who were under him. A large bulk of the erstwhile Mujahideen went into Northern Alliance, which was under Massoud and were actually fighting the Taliban.

Also, back when it was still Mujahideen, OBL was never in Afghanistan. He setup camps in Khyber Pakhtunwa to train foreigners and send them into Afghanistan and fight the Soviets initially, while funneling money from abroad for the same through Makhtab-al-Khidamat, an organisation, or trust if you will, which he founded in Pakistan. He bought loyalty with the local warlords doing this, and they formed the bulk of Al-Qaeda when the enemy became the American Satan.

CPEC or not, India has had nothing to do with Taliban since the IC 814 hijacking. And why would we waste our resources when we know US is gonna support resistance against Talis.
Espionage rarely if ever, functions on that simple a logic. I've already stated reasons for India to keep the Taliban in check in Afghanistan in my earlier posts. And if you really think Indians weren't there arming and assisting Massoud, here is a small article.


By the way, this is just scratching the surface, since it is meant for the consumption of the general public at large. You will find more details in the books that I have mentioned.
If RAW has to do work in Afghanistan from the cover of the Indian Embassy there, you can be certain it is not the "diplomats" doing the running around in the Afghani mountains.
 

Killbot

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The entirety of the Mujahideen didnt become Taliban. It started from Mohammad Omar and the ones who were under him. A large bulk of the erstwhile Mujahideen went into Northern Alliance, which was under Massoud and were actually fighting the Taliban.

Also, back when it was still Mujahideen, OBL was never in Afghanistan. He setup camps in Khyber Pakhtunwa to train foreigners and send them into Afghanistan and fight the Soviets initially, while funneling money from abroad for the same through Makhtab-al-Khidamat, an organisation, or trust if you will, which he founded in Pakistan. He bought loyalty with the local warlords doing this, and they formed the bulk of Al-Qaeda when the enemy became the American Satan.


Espionage rarely if ever, functions on that simple a logic. I've already stated reasons for India to keep the Taliban in check in Afghanistan in my earlier posts. And if you really think Indians weren't there arming and assisting Massoud, here is a small article.


By the way, this is just scratching the surface, since it is meant for the consumption of the general public at large. You will find more details in the books that I have mentioned.
If RAW has to do work in Afghanistan from the cover of the Indian Embassy there, you can be certain it is not the "diplomats" doing the running around in the Afghani mountains.
Thanks. That article was good. Makes the SG part just a bit more believable. Agree with the rest for the most part.
 

Killbot

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Yes. Not the most contemporary LAM for this day & age but then again, neither is most of the stuff on our SFs.

Well, it is better than nothing... While PEQ 15s are better, I don't think PEQ 2s are obsolete either.
 

rkhanna

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Can you share more on this if u can I am curious..much appreciated
Indian SOF/RAW have been with the NA throughout the 90s. In the buildup to the American invasion they started to evac out but a few stayed back to make some introductions. We also provided the Americans with whatever intel we had.

Our intel in Astan was quiet decent. Infact in 2001 it was indian intel that burst the bubble on the Kunduz airlift to the Americans.

I don't know anything more to say. Other than from a cynical pov one can say that the Tiger Shah's assassination in some way was an Intel failure of ours. But I guess you can't catch them all. And in the same vein the Americans missed 9/11.
 

aditya g

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Ops in Myanmar need not necessarily mean Myanmar border with NE states. That's 21SF and also now 12SF AOR.

Myanmar also has a (small) maritime border with India and as such is a prominent IOR country in close proximity to us. Even if an operation did not happen on Burmese soil, it could have happened in their waters or it could have happened on our area - the best example is Operation Leech.

How do we know about Op Leech? Because it came to the media.

Recently there was an article by a submariner who revealed how they deployed shore party comprised of men from diving branch to Sri Lankan shores from Foxtrot class submarines. This is before Op Pawan. Did we know about it till 2020? No.

How do we know if other operations have happened or not happened? Answer is we don't so let's move on and not waste each other's time arguing over it. I appreciate the time and effort with which people have shared anecdotes and little morsels of Information/rumour/gossip whatever you want to call.

That's the point. Like I said, this is coming from personal interaction with Ex-MARCOS. Nothing is in public domain as that's the point entirely. I missed the deployment of MARCOS in Somalia in '93. If I remember correctly, one the guys was awarded the Shaurya Chakra as well for Ops conducted there as part of the US Coalition.
Ops in Nepal have been post 2000. Also, continuous anti piracy ops in the Gulf of Aden and securing the harbours in Yemen during the evacuation in Op Raahat.

Role of the SG is to do what RAW needs done on foreign soil in a deniable environment, that includes arresting/taking out HVTs, and yeah, under purely technical terms, SG isnt a part of the military. But its mostly composed of Para SF guys, with some coming in from SFF as well.
SG was one of the first boots on the ground in Afghanistan to liase with Ahmad Shah Massoud, (Before even the Green Berets landed there) when the entire situation blew up after his assassination by Al-Qaeda.
You will not find the details of these Ops published anywhere outside of classified documents though, only mentions in the books on RAW by some really brilliant investigative journalists.
Its not like that..Para and Garuds have been deployed under UN.UN doesnt throw governments.

My brother in law was once a commander of Congo ops so i have a fair idea about things.

Then the basic things for such deployments is reinforcements and logistics.
Anti piracy ops are one thing, even Navy or CG VBSS commandos can do them. MARCOS are not a Covert ops unit. There isn't much about them in the public domain because they don't do much. No disrespect intended to your source, though.

There was no reason for SG to have gotten involved in Afghanistan. Why did they do that? If they actually did, how do you know about it? Aren't they like ultra uber classified and none of us mortals know about them and what they do?

But they do Covert ops, and some of them don't even require a genius to figure out that they had a hand in them.

For example, Col Zahir Habib of ISI went 'missing' in Nepal in 2017. And the Indian spy who defected to America (forgot his name) died in a 'car accident'.

Also, who named them Special Group? Is it even really called that?
@rkhanna @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @abingdonboy
 

aditya g

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There were comments made about how inactive MARCOS was in ops. Everybody's free to have an opinion but at same time we need to be open to facts and learn. For a such a small unit of men selected from diving branch (already an elite bunch), they are heavily involved in operations especially since 2008;

- Counter Piracy ops in Gulf of Aden.
- Op Rahat - Yemen
- Op Sankalp
- CI/CT detachment in J&K
- Op Cyclone (26/11)
- Capture of Dubai princess

Earlier this week there was an Op by SBS in English waters where they had to board a freighter under hijack. Lot of media coverage about it. Our boys hardly got any coverage for ops like this (seizure of MV Nafis - 2011):

1603995292517.png
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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Ops in Myanmar need not necessarily mean Myanmar border with NE states. That's 21SF and also now 12SF AOR.

Myanmar also has a (small) maritime border with India and as such is a prominent IOR country in close proximity to us. Even if an operation did not happen on Burmese soil, it could have happened in their waters or it could have happened on our area - the best example is Operation Leech.

How do we know about Op Leech? Because it came to the media.

Recently there was an article by a submariner who revealed how they deployed shore party comprised of men from diving branch to Sri Lankan shores from Foxtrot class submarines. This is before Op Pawan. Did we know about it till 2020? No.

How do we know if other operations have happened or not happened? Answer is we don't so let's move on and not waste each other's time arguing over it. I appreciate the time and effort with which people have shared anecdotes and little morsels of Information/rumour/gossip whatever you want to call.
I am sorry i am not interested in Beer bar loose chats without any logical sense.

If these chats can also come with small hints as to where and who they were deployed then it would make more sense for everyone and easier to verify aswell.


As far as i know of ops involving water in North east the 21 para under Col shekhawat was involved.

Many Marcos fanboys claim many things but it has no logical backing.

I can also post a video of a Marcos claiming that Para are better or very good in jungle warfare.

I remember how many Marcos fanboys claimed Marcos or Garuds to be a part of SS.

Even now some claim them to be active inside Africa.

Such loose claims without even a hint of backing affect the credibility of the thread.

Tomorrow anyone will claim anything.

And i dont personally think anyone has done any bigger ops than SS 1 or 2 to be hidden.

We have awarded the operators publicly for god sake lets have some common sense.

So i anyway dont believe this..if i tell you i gotta kill you thing.

Rest what RAW does in Nepal and Afghanistan we have a fair hint of.

Dont take this personally and kindly excuse my thoughts.
 

aditya g

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I am sorry i am not interested in Beer bar loose chats without any logical sense.

If these chats can also come with small hints as to where and who they were deployed then it would make more sense for everyone and easier to verify aswell.


As far as i know of ops involving water in North east the 21 para under Col shekhawat was involved.

Many Marcos fanboys claim many things but it has no logical backing.

I can also post a video of a Marcos claiming that Para are better or very good in jungle warfare.

I remember how many Marcos fanboys claimed Marcos or Garuds to be a part of SS.

Even now some claim them to be active inside Africa.

Such loose claims without even a hint of backing affect the credibility of the thread.

Tomorrow anyone will claim anything.

And i dont personally think anyone has done any bigger ops than SS 1 or 2 to be hidden.

We have awarded the operators publicly for god sake lets have some common sense.

So i anyway dont believe this..if i tell you i gotta kill you thing.

Rest what RAW does in Nepal and Afghanistan we have a fair hint of.

Dont take this personally and kindly excuse my thoughts.
Ofcourse, we can choose to believe or disbelieve. Its a free forums so people are free to write anything they want as well. We all can read and make up their mind. All I am saying is that it is pointless to argue with each other on unverifiable facts.
 

AZTEC

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Apparently, this is MARCOS during Exercise Konkan with British Navy, December 2018.


Any idea who these guys in casual clothes are? Are they SBS (unlikely)? Are they Royal marines? What are they doing? Hostage rescue? It looks a bit odd.

Other photos from same exercise:



Source:
 
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tomthounaojam

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Which part of Myanmar shared a maritime border with India?
Anyway, I'll add a trivial note.
It was in the year 1994-95, my father had a good friend with a 1st Para major (dad came to know him cause he was posted in a remote corner of the state as part of the electric project and they were conducting operations also remember there were ethenic clashes as well, dad wanted cheap drinks and they wanted a place to drink in civil dress and that is how they became a friend). He had his tour in Sri Lanka as part of IPKF and some operation in Bangladesh, remember NE militants at that time were not only active in Burma/Myanmar but in Bangladesh too. He would come to my house and he would drive dad Maruti Gypsy hardtop and that was the first time I saw a Beretta 92 in silver and he would tease CRPF roadblock my saying " Hathiyar toh mera pass bhi hai, bas Fauji hu". He was a jolly good guy, saw a Vz 58 he had the side folding one wrapped in clothes. a few months later dad got promoted and transferred to Shillong and where we met him for the last time at Umiam station. And from him, I came to know their Slogan Balidan and they wear Maroon beret, we had one without the badge but got lost while shifting the house.
 

rkhanna

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Apparently, this is MARCOS during Exercise Konkan with British Navy, December 2018.


Any idea who these guys in casual clothes are? Are they SBS (unlikely)? Are they Royal marines? What are they doing? Hostage rescue? It looks a bit odd.

Other photos from same exercise:



Source:
These are not Marcos, SBS nor RMC - they are normal VBSS teams only.


Also the day MARCOS actually trains with a naval SOF unit of a major country I'll send beer to everyone on this thread
 

Vishalreddy3

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These are not Marcos, SBS nor RMC - they are normal VBSS teams only.


Also the day MARCOS actually trains with a naval SOF unit of a major country I'll send beer to everyone on this thread
This comment hit me the most!!
So a western VBSS team way better than Marcos?? 😭😭
 

rkhanna

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I can also post a video of a Marcos claiming that Para are better or very good in jungle warfare.

I remember how many Marcos fanboys claimed Marcos or Garuds to be a part of SS
You know the sad thing is that that in the 80s and 90s MARCOS used to have an almost unprecedented capability as a naval SOF unit. They used to be be one of the 6 naval at that could do a full combat load jump into blue waters.

Same for para SF - I honestly feel that before the mindless expansion in the mid 2000s the SF had a different feel to them, not to mention they used to be older on average.
 

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