Indian Special Forces (archived)

[ALBY]

Do you expect an operation by our SF in such an environment? Israel incident was different. Do you expect the Taliban to have allowed Indian SF to operate there and go back alive?
Taliban had their own Airforce then and were the Govt in Afghanistan, not like the shoot and scoot militant force it is today.

One Grenade at fuel tanks by the hijackers or one RPG from the Taliban would have blown up the entire plane

Btw the Northern alliance was nowhere near Kabul. It was routed to the Northern Fringes of Afghanistan. Kandahar is in the Southern part of Afghanistan, a distance of hundreds of Kms of Taliban territory.

param i didn't said that it would be a cake walk considering the sams they deployed but israelis too fought back the same circumstances considering ugandan army too were equipped with RPGs and they too were having an air force of migs.
But if we are going to afraid of Rpgs and those bearded men with kalashnikovs then how we are going to respond to another terror attack in the same manner as happened in kandahar?
Its true that kandahar was far from NA territory but we could have used route through uzbekistan or iran or turkmenistan under aid from russians to send our SF along with some fighters, to bomb their AA positions and fighter bases even before they could detect them. And could have used hinds to clean up the men in APCs protecting the plane and providing cover fire for the SF.
Any way this could be dangerous but not 100% disastrous.after all with out no pain there would be no gain.
If releasing the tangos was so necessary then govt should have atleast tried to assassinate those bastards by using the RAW operatives in pakistan.

 

[Bangalorean]

Though I am far from a BJP fanboy, even I think that the way the Kandhar incident was handled was unavoidable. There was really not much choice.

All this talk of "tough negotiation with terrorists" is just lip service. You might as well say that we should have shot down the plane the moment the hijack happened. That is what the USSR and some other brutal nations would have done, most probably...

Though revenge could have been taken later. A few assassinations in the subsequent years would have been welcome.

 

[Ray]

I presume the reason why the swap took place is because as a people, we maybe more concerned about the misery that will be caused to families being sacrificed over the requirement of hard hearted decision making.

I am not aware of the situation faced by the Govt and the intelligence inputs and so I cannot comment without bias.

Theoretically, an Entebbe raid was feasible.

But was our SF equally well trained and equipped as the Israelis? I do not know.

There were also huge rallies going on that wanted that no harm should come to the passengers on board the hijacked aircraft.

In hindsight one can comment, but then who knows what are the compulsions at play!

 

[Param]

param i didn't said that it would be a cake walk considering the sams they deployed but israelis too fought back the same circumstances considering ugandan army too were equipped with RPGs and they too were having an air force of migs.
But if we are going to afraid of Rpgs and those bearded men with kalashnikovs then how we are going to respond to another terror attack in the same manner as happened in kandahar?
Its true that kandahar was far from NA territory but we could have used route through uzbekistan or iran or turkmenistan under aid from russians to send our SF along with some fighters, to bomb their AA positions and fighter bases even before they could detect them. And could have used hinds to clean up the men in APCs protecting the plane and providing cover fire for the SF.
.

Israel had Friendly Kenya. Whom did we have? Iran? Iran has good relations with Pakistan, besides Iran would not have wanted to trouble from a large neighboring warlike country that had the world's most dreaded terrorists as state guests.

As for Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan , they are too far from Kandahar. Uganda is a small country, different terrain, different geopolitical conditions.How battle hardened were Ugandan troops? How many Soviet airforce aircraft had the Ugandan troops brought down in a decade long war like the one in Afghanistan?Did Uganda have the backing of a strong neighborhood ally like Pakistan?
Besides the Taliban was nothing but a stooge of Pakistan, supported by Pakistan. So if SF had engaged the taliban support from Pak militarily and ISI would have been automatic.

Any way this could also be dangerous but not 100% disastrous.after all with out no pain there would be no gain

Israel is modern day Sparta, the most militaristic country in the world. They were willing to take the risk but we were not. And we cannot be blamed for that. Any govt would have done the same what NDA did.

If releasing the tangos was so necessary then govt should have atleast tried to assassinate those bastards by using the RAW operatives in pakistan.

I agree, infact the day Masood was released I wished the Govt had given fed him slow poison or some kind of biological agent that would have finished him of slowly.

 

[Bangalorean]

Oh yes, the compulsions were there, and were not light ones either!! Check this:

The Truth Behind Kandahar Indian Airlines Hijacking

On Christmas eve, after news of the hijacking broke, there was stunned all-round silence. But by noon on December 25, orchestrated protests outside the Prime Minister's residence began, with women beating their chests and tearing their clothes. The crowd swelled by the hour as the day progressed.

Ms Brinda Karat came to commiserate with the relatives of the hostages who were camping outside the main gate of 7, Race Course Road. In fact, she became a regular visitor over the next few days. There was a steady clamour that the Government should pay any price to bring the hostages back home, safe and sound. This continued till December 30.

One evening, the Prime Minister asked his staff to let the families come in so that they could be told about the Government's efforts to secure the hostages' release. By then negotiations had begun and Mullah Omar had got into the act through his 'Foreign Minister', Muttavakil. The hijackers wanted 36 terrorists, held in various Indian jails, to be freed or else they would blow up the aircraft with the hostages.

No senior Minister in the CCS was willing to meet the families. Mr Jaswant Singh volunteered to do so. He asked me to accompany him to the canopy under which the families had gathered. Once there, we were literally mobbed. He tried to explain the situation but was shouted down.

"We want our relatives back. What difference does it make to us what you have to give the hijackers?" a man shouted. "We don't care if you have to give away Kashmir," a woman screamed and others took up the refrain, chanting: "Kashmir de do, kuchh bhi de do, hamare logon ko ghar wapas lao." Another woman sobbed, "Mera beta"¦ hai mera beta"¦" and made a great show of fainting of grief.

To his credit, Mr Jaswant Singh made bold to suggest that the Government had to keep the nation's interest in mind, that we could not be seen to be giving in to the hijackers, or words to that effect, in chaste Hindi. That fetched him abuse and rebuke. "Bhaand me jaaye desh aur bhaand me jaaye desh ka hit. (To hell with the country and national interest)," many in the crowd shouted back.[/U] Stumped by the response, Mr Jaswant Singh could merely promise that the Government would do everything possible.

 

[Galaxy]

At that time government didn't had any other option. India is democratic country and not under dictatorship or authoritarian government.

It was almost impossible for SF to conduct an operation in Kandhar. (It was fully under Taliban control backed with Pakistan). May be they deliberately went at that place as it was safest. 2nd, There was no other way to reach there (Pakistan would have denied so Iran and of course Taliban)

Even if we tried, That plane would have faced the bomb and all 200 passengers would have died in few seconds.

So, Literally it was impossible.

Not to forget, too much pressure on government by public. I still remember the episode, There was mixed opinion at that time. India is no Russia which can shoot a plane in order to save a terrorist.

Only 1 thing was possible (secret operation inside Pakistan to kill most wanted terrorist). May be we killed few, May be not. What if we kill few people there and in retaliation ISI also does same in India by killing few political leader or High profile people ?? One need to understand basic of diplomacy.

It's very easy for Paid media, Congress Fanboy to tell what BJP missed which actually was not missed at all. Still, We neither lost Kargil nor it changed anything.

 

[ALBY]

I presume the reason why the swap took place is because as a people, we maybe more concerned about the misery that will be caused to families being sacrificed over the requirement of hard hearted decision making.

I am not aware of the situation faced by the Govt and the intelligence inputs and so I cannot comment without bias.

Theoretically, an Entebbe raid was feasible.

But was our SF equally well trained and equipped as the Israelis? I do not know.

There were also huge rallies going on that wanted that no harm should come to the passengers on board the hijacked aircraft.

In hindsight one can comment, but then who knows what are the compulsions at play!

SF's operational capability was un questionable if compared to israelis in 1970s.At the time of the event indian SF was capable of mounting an offensive to rescue the plane.
But these all problem could be avoided if our PM had contacted US president at that time.Because from lahore the pane was flown to Al minaht air force base in abudhabi which has a us military base with US special forces.If we had requested in time the plane would not have flown from abudhabi and all of the passengers could be rescued with the aid of US forces.Remember US was against taliban during that time.
There is also a version of the story that NSG didn't carry out the operation even though they were battle ready at the very first minutes of hijack coz they didn't get plane to board to amritsar.

 

[Galaxy]

SF's operational capability was un questionable if compared to israelis in 1970s.At the time of the event indian SF was capable of mounting an offensive to rescue the plane.
But these all problem could be avoided if our PM had contacted US president at that time.Because from lahore the pane was flown to Al minaht air force base in abudhabi which has a us military base with US special forces.If we had requested in time the plane would not have flown from abudhabi and all of the passengers could be rescued with the aid of US forces.Remember US was against taliban during that time.
There is also a version of the story that NSG didn't carry out the operation even though they were battle ready at the very first minutes of hijack coz they didn't get plane to board to amritsar.

It was impossible for SF to conduct such operation in Kandhar (1,000 Km away from Indian border) . Even if all SF of the world combined then also 5 seconds and 200 Passengers boomed.

 

[Ray]

SF's operational capability was un questionable if compared to israelis in 1970s.At the time of the event indian SF was capable of mounting an offensive to rescue the plane.
But these all problem could be avoided if our PM had contacted US president at that time.Because from lahore the pane was flown to Al minaht air force base in abudhabi which has a us military base with US special forces.If we had requested in time the plane would not have flown from abudhabi and all of the passengers could be rescued with the aid of US forces.Remember US was against taliban during that time.
There is also a version of the story that NSG didn't carry out the operation even though they were battle ready at the very first minutes of hijack coz they didn't get plane to board to amritsar.

Preparedness is not confined to training alone.

It is also the wherewithal.

How long did it take to respond to Aksardham and Mumbai?

NSG or SF's success depends on SURPRISE and SWIFT REACTION!

One cannot let the adversary settle down and shore up!

 

[ALBY]

At that time government didn't had any other option. India is democratic country and not under dictatorship or authoritarian government.

It was almost impossible for SF to conduct an operation in Kandhar. (It was fully under Taliban control backed with Pakistan). May be they deliberately went at that place as it was safest. 2nd, There was no other way to reach there (Pakistan would have denied so Iran and of course Taliban)

Even if we tried, That plane would have faced the bomb and all 200 passengers would have died in few seconds.

So, Literally it was impossible.

Not to forget, too much pressure on government by public. I still remember the episode, There was mixed opinion at that time. India is no Russia which can shoot a plane in order to save a terrorist.

Only 1 thing was possible (secret operation inside Pakistan to kill most wanted terrorist). May be we killed few, May be not. What if we kill few people there and in retaliation ISI also does same in India by killing few political leader or High profile people ?? One need to understand basic of diplomacy.

It's very easy for Paid media, Congress Fanboy to tell what BJP missed which actually was not missed at all. Still, We neither lost Kargil nor it changed anything.

BJP fan boy who the hell is responsible for not providing a better means of transport to NSG when we had a chance to apprehend all those bastards when they were landed in amritsar?

 

[Galaxy]

BJP fan boy who the hell is responsible for not providing a better means of transport to NSG when we had a chance to apprehend all those bastards when they were landed in amritsar?

Transport ?? Amritsar ?? Do you even think before posting such crap ??

How come such Heli, Aircraft landed over to kandhar ?? Does Iran, Pakistan allowed such things ?? Once they entered Iran/Pakistan, those terroirst would have blasted that plane which will not take max 5 seconds. What 30-50 NSG commando would have done in Taliban in front of 3,00,000 Talibani with all kind of weapons ??

It took 3 days for NSG in Mumbai, Still many people died. And you giving rosy picture and Day-dreaming thought like most Bangladeshi do on daily basis which is always impossible.

If government did that Bunch of Congress supporters argued that government was merciless and killed 200 own people just for the sake of 1 terrorist. In both case, Few congressi would have opposed.

Even if Azhar was kept in Jail, Congress would have supported that terrorist by serving briyani like they doing now in kasab case.

 

[The Messiah]

Transport ?? Amritsar ?? Do you even think before posting such crap ??

How come such Heli, Aircraft landed over to kandhar ?? Does Iran, Pakistan allowed such things ?? Once they entered Iran/Pakistan, those terroirst would have blasted that plane which will not take max 5 seconds. What 30-50 NSG commando would have done in Taliban in front of 3,00,000 Talibani with all kind of weapons ??

It took 3 days for NSG in Mumbai, Still many people died. And you giving rosy picture and Day-dreaming thought like most Bangladeshi do on daily basis which is always impossible.

If government did that Bunch of Congress supporters argued that government was merciless and killed 200 own people just for the sake of 1 terrorist. In both case, Few congressi would have opposed.

Even if Azhar was kept in Jail, Congress would have supported that terrorist by serving briyani like they doing now in kasab case.

Plane was in amritsar airport and shouldn't have been allowed to take off.

 

[ALBY]

Transport ?? Amritsar ?? Do you even think before posting such crap ??

How come such Heli, Aircraft landed over to kandhar ?? Does Iran, Pakistan allowed such things ?? Once they entered Iran/Pakistan, those terroirst would have blasted that plane which will not take max 5 seconds. What 30-50 NSG commando would have done in Taliban in front of 3,00,000 Talibani with all kind of weapons ??



It took 3 days for NSG in Mumbai, Still many people died. And you giving rosy picture which was impossible.

Even if Azhar was kept in Jail, Congress would have supported him by serving briyani like they doing now in kasab case.

By transport i din't meant through road but air lifting NSG to amritsar air port.
Well during hijack the military should have made a plan it would be impossible to assume that they had sat idle thinking of taliban and ISI might.
from where did u get the figure of 300 k taliban that too in kandahar alone?
In what basis are u comparing mumbai and kandahar scenarios as both are totally different environments and needed diffrent approaches and threats were different.
If not for such situations, then for what the NSG is created that too with a tag "specially made for anti hijack ops"?
coming to you congress bashing they didn't missed a chance to mount an attack inside the territory of pakistan when ever there was a need for it unlike the NDA govt who didn't allowed the army nor IAF to cross LOC.

 

[Galaxy]

Plane was in amritsar airport and shouldn't have been allowed to take off.

I know that but those 200 passengers would have died in no time. Make no mistake.

It was decision between saving 200 Passengers or not.

 

[Dovah]

Its pretty hypocritical to blame the congress for Mumbai but defend the BJP for Kargil. Not to mention anti national.
Pseudo-Nationalists?

 

[Galaxy]

By transport i din't meant through road but air lifting NSG to amritsar air port.
Well during hijack the military should have made a plan it would be impossible to assume that they had sat idle thinking of taliban and ISI might.
from where did u get the figure of 300 k taliban that too in kandahar alone?
In what basis are u comparing mumbai and kandahar scenarios as both are totally different environments and needed diffrent approaches and threats were different.
If not for such situations, then for what the NSG is created that too with a tag "specially made for anti hijack ops"?

Talbian was ruled by 3,00,000 Talibani. May be more. Not kandhar but Taliban dominated area.

NSG was created for Anti-terror like Mumbai. Hijack episode was totally different scenario. Terrorist with weapons inside plane and door was locked. If NSG would have tried, All 200 passengers would have died in any case. It was decision between 200 passengers Vs Azhar and not to forget too much pressure on government.

coming to you congress bashing they didn't missed a chance to mount an attack inside the territory of pakistan when ever there was a need for it unlike the NDA govt who didn't allowed the army nor IAF to cross LOC.

Yes, I know how Congress lost Kashmir in 1948, Aksai Chin in 1962. Silence after 2008 Mumbai blast. :thumb:

 

[ALBY]

I know that but those 200 passengers would have died in no time. Make no mistake.

It was decision between saving 200 Passengers or not.

It is completely wrong.the terrorists inside the plane were armed with only mele weapons and pistols .they didn't had placed explosives nor where having grenades .they got hand grenades only when they landed in kandahar.so even if they had opened fire only couple of people could have been killed.But could have saved our national pride.

 

[ALBY]

Talbian was ruled by 3,00,000 Talibani. May be more. Not kandhar but Taliban dominated area.

NSG was created for Anti-terror like Mumbai. Hijack episode was totally different scenario. Terrorist with weapons inside plane and door was locked. If NSG would have tried, All 200 passengers would have died in any case.



Yes, I know how Congress lost Kashmir in 1948, Aksai Chin in 1962. Silence after 2008 Mumbai blast. :thumb:

did you forget the shameful defeat pakistanis got from us in 1971?And how about kargil 1999 when vajpeiji was back stabbed after the much hyped bus yatra to pakistan?:taunt1:

 

[KS]

Its pretty hypocritical to blame the congress for Mumbai but defend the BJP for Kargil. Not to mention anti national.
Pseudo-Nationalists?

Both are different. No comparison.

 

[KS]

did you forget the shameful defeat pakistanis got from us?And how about kargil 1999 when vajpeiji was back stabbed after the much hyped bus yatra to pakistan?

How could person be responsible for some one backstabbing him ? Backstabbing by definition means someone whom you trust/believe in suddenly turning against you for his/her personal gain.

What mattter is the response he gave and that was kickass.