Indian Software Industry

[Hijibiji]

Desi IT cos -> hire and fire in mass. employees = cattle = billable resource. Jhatka-type exits involving a quick meeting and security escort.
MNCs - hire and fire selectively. employees = long term assets. Halal-type exits with compensation paid and
"be on rolls for a few months till you find a job". Its all about maintaining a reputation and requirement for WARN notifications.

OK. finally one person tends to agree on what i said. Though in reality there is no halal vs jhatka comparison, in my experience. The Indian It companies can be the living hell (where one reaches after the halal)

Now can Modiji take a pity on the lower middle class coolies like me and take initiatives to make things better?

 

[here2where]

@Hijibiji what i don't understand is why you swung both ways (no pun intended ) .. having been a product guy for a long time, i just cannot imagine life on the other side...

 

[Hijibiji]

what i don't understand is why you swung both ways (no pun intended ) .. having been a product guy for a long time, i just cannot imagine life on the other side...

Because I am barbarik (a very weak version of barbaric) who is a born loser and prefers to fight for the losing side. I keep swinging

 

[Hijibiji]

The dirty insights from the "junkyard of Indian IT Industry"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Coincidentally today on the front page of ToI (BLR edition), there was a news item regarding "Indian IT Industry" and my "Japanese, American and European" godfathers. Since i am in the mood, i will spill the beans on this (with some creative liberty from my side)
Note: I have seen the article on front page of ToI today with my own eyes but can't dig it up by google search!

It seems that a labrador or golden retriever, pupper of a Indian born top executive of SuberDuber India (the great MNC cabwallah) attacked the child of german couple who stayed in the same apartment.

Now here is my analysis of the same incident by utilizing years of work experience with "Top Indian Executives" and my "Japanese, American and European" godfathers from the software industry.

1) The "top indian executives" are generally dalals and they think that they are "running the show". They don't have much idea on technical things or how to keep a dog in good physical and mental health. Since in India, in Indian IT industry the coolies don't have much protection, the indian executives go there and "run the show" in their indian style. Naturally neither coolies nor the "top bosses" have much life. Since they don't have a life, their dogs also don't have a life and the dogs from such families are totally assholes.

2) if a brother from my American or European race had come to India for true-blue MNC work and if he had a dog, he would keep the dog running and give him proper non-veg food; Naturally the dog would be in good mood and would not attack neighbor's child.

3) The "top indian executive" from SuberDuber cab company was notified multiple times by the apartment association, on the psycho behaviour of his dog but he did not pay heed (what is unexpected there )

4) The police did not take immediate action on the suberduber executive. But since the dog bit a child of my European godfathers' race, the police finally took action and the story came on front page of India.

Moral of the story:
Someone a few years back aptly said "This is what happens when a cabwallah gets money". IMO, it's true. One can pretend to be a big guy and hold a designation but culture can't be bought by business or dalali.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Valuation is very high (too high?). But leaving that aside, Postman is a great example of Indians making global products. Unlike Zoho/Freshdesk, Postman is the #1 product in its segment.

PS: We need to simplify laws & taxes so companies don't have to register outside India.

API platform Postman delivers $150M Series C on $2B valuation | TechCrunch

APIs provide a way to build connections to a set of disparate applications and data sources, and can help simplify a lot of the complex integration issues

techcrunch.com

 

[Why so serious?]

https://www.mumbailive.com/en/real-estate/largest-data-centre-in-asia-goes-live-at-navi-mumbai-52547

World's second largest, Asia's largest ; Data center inaugurated in Mumbai.

@LurkerBaba do we have a thread for big Data or any other thread related to this news? Can you please move this post to the relevant thread. Thanks.

 

[Kumata]

Valuation is very high (too high?). But leaving that aside, Postman is a great example of Indians making global products. Unlike Zoho/Freshdesk, Postman is the #1 product in its segment.

PS: We need to simplify laws & taxes so companies don't have to register outside India.

API platform Postman delivers $150M Series C on $2B valuation | TechCrunch

APIs provide a way to build connections to a set of disparate applications and data sources, and can help simplify a lot of the complex integration issues

techcrunch.com

Never knew Postman is indian.. i regularly hook up to it for work...

 

[here2where]

Union folks in KA are crying buckets over lob losses over covid, and hoping to attract IT coolies to their ranks.
What has IT industry and unions go to do with each other. A software co is the pinnacle of capitalist dreams, and it works like one. Anyone who thinks otherwise and expects unions to save their sorry ass if just plain lazy.

 

[LurkerBaba]

A really good writeup on the Indian Software ecosystem which is now exploding (in a good way)

The Indus Valley Playbook

On the evolution of the Indian startup ecosystem, or Indus Valley, and the distinct set of hacks and business models that have evolved to help Indian startups win - The Indus Valley playbook. About this essay / TL;DR This is a long essay; my longest ever at ~7k words.

www.linkedin.com

Indian gov needs to reduce compliance and make IPOing easy for tech startups. Ease of access to funds will be a huge multiplier. Bonus: raising money from the market means you don't need VC money from the Americans/Chinese

 

[Suryavanshi]

@LurkerBaba how is GUI for apps built?
both mobile and Desktop ?

When I do it with tkinter it looks like 90s era GUI

 

[LurkerBaba]

@LurkerBaba how is GUI for apps built?
both mobile and Desktop ?

When I do it with tkinter it looks like 90s era GUI

Native apps have separate kits for different platforms. Cross platform kits like tkinter are not very nice.

If you want to make a cross platform app the best choice is good ol JS+CSS+HTML. It'll work for Mobile web and you can wrap it in Electron for desktop app (like Slack). Later when your startup is rich, you can hire devs to create a native app for each platform

 

[shade]

Native apps have separate kits for different platforms. Cross platform kits like tkinter are not very nice.

If you want to make a cross platform app the best choice is good ol JS+CSS+HTML. It'll work for Mobile web and you can wrap it in Electron for desktop app (like Slack). Later when your startup is rich, you can hire devs to create a native app for each platform

In case anyone is wondering the drawback to this is that a cut down browser engine runs on your computer, the same kind used for chrome, in order to run Electron apps( or even stuff like React Native for mobile ).
So you can expect high ram usage.

In any case on desktops web is king, actual programs that you install are passe for the most part.

 

[Suryavanshi]

In case anyone is wondering the drawback to this is that a cut down browser engine runs on your computer, the same kind used for chrome, in order to run Electron apps( or even stuff like React Native for mobile ).
So you can expect high ram usage.

In any case on desktops web is king, actual programs that you install are passe for the most part.

Bruv I want to build something like this

What do I use?
I am talking about a app here not on website applets

 

[shade]

Bruv I want to build something like this

What do I use?
I an talking about a app here not on website applets

If you want multiplatform desktop solution you build using Electron https://www.electronjs.org/.
With electron you can use HTLM/CSS/JS without actually being a website/ need to access through browser.

Otherwise you are limited to using vendor IDE like Visual Studio for Windows, Xcode for MacOS, on linux there is no IDE so you have to make use of whatever graphics toolkit is used by your distro, like GTK for Gnome or QT for KDE.

On Android it's android studio, on iOS it's again xcode.

Basically the vendor IDEs have good enough looking GUI by default, idk how custom GUI elements are made though.

btw Electron is very popular because of the web dev stack, you don't need to hire extra people pro in Java/Dart/Android Studio or Swift/Xcode, you can just use your front end web development employees.
Electron is go to if you are ok with your app consuming a lot of RAM on customer's PC, VSCode IDE by MS is multiplatform and also uses Electron, but strangely it's RAM consumption is very low, and meanwhile Slack also uses electron desktop client but it's ram usage is very high, so I guess techniques are available to make Electron more performant.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Bruv I want to build something like this

What do I use?
I am talking about a app here not on website applets

Just use Electron

 

[Johny_Baba]

Since the big tech censorship is here to silence voices on social media,
is it possible to make a messenger app working as per,say,bittorrent sorta peer-to-peer mechanism ?
that is a message is directly transmitted to a receiver's phone and when it's "broadcasted" across many users everybody shares it after receiving it.

This way there cannot be bullshit silencing of dissenting and so from big tech giants.

^whattya say,this is just an idea that i got in mind...since IT is not my forte i am not sure will it work or not.
If it has some chance of working, i say we start it with a plain text and image sharing thing, for vdos use hyperlinks of bitchute.

 

[hit&run]

For IT illiterate person like me can someone explain in few bullet points the prerequisite of having own social media apps like twitter.

Who issues Domain names?
Our own massive Data Hosting and servers
Own internet (Let’s call it Indinet) network which operates on our own network lines or by satelites?
Our own IE
Our own Media hosting
Don’t redicule me for being so noob.

Please discuss.

 

[shade]

For IT illiterate person like me can someone explain in few bullet points the prerequisite of having own social media apps like twitter.

Who issues Domain names?
Our own massive Data Hosting and servers
Own internet (Let’s call it Indinet) network which operates on our own network lines or by satelites?
Our own IE
Our own Media hosting
Don’t redicule me for being so noob.

Please discuss.

>Who issues Domain names

There is a group called ICANN that manages the top level allocations of domain names and TLDs( .com, .in .cn, .pk etc types )

ICANN - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But if you have to buy a domain name, you have to buy one through various "dalal" companies like GoDaddy, or Namecheap, there are many like this, and are called domain.

btw ICANN just manages the global root DNS servers, upon which other DNS servers depend, DNS servers map text entries like "google.com" to the IP addresses of the servers mentioned in the DNS record, like say 192.102.6.9, these IP addresses are 12 numbers total, divided into blocks of 4 three digit numbers.

>Our own massive Data Hosting and servers

Dunno about Private firms, but nearly all of Gormint websites and web facing services are hosted by data centers of the NIC https://www.nic.in/
Aside from this for those lucrative gormint contracts, you can be sure your IT outsourcing companies, TCS, L&T all may also have their own server farms.

>Our own internet

Yes it can use our own fibre optic or copper cable lines, Bharat is connected to the "Internet" in other countries by means of YUGE under sea internet cables.

These cables touch down in various parts of Bharat's coast, and ISPs big and small have to pay the guys who run these cable "terminals" in India to get their networks connected to the rest of the internet.
IIRC Tata has rights over some of these terminals, and Anil's RCom used to be in management of these too.
Map of world wide undersea cables below

And site bans are simple, you go to pr0nhub.com to beat it out to Mia Khalifa's vids, but gormint has decided to ban porn sites, so you get a message saying "Site has been blocked on orders of DOT Government of India", all ISPs have to comply with Gormint ban orders legally.

>Our own IE

If you mean web browsers, most "browser engines" are open source today, like Chrome's blink engine, WebKit of Apple, KDE Konqueror browser engine, I think Mozilla's Gecko engine used in Firefox is open source also, but not sure about that.

Open source means the source code for these programs is openly available, you just need to download the code and compile it, since this very high tech and time consuming to produce piece is readily available, the development of an Indian web browser should be easier by some Gormint entity like say CDAC if not NIC.

>Our own Media hosting

Dunno what you mean by this, images, audio , video all stored in the same kind of servers as web pages are, however for improved download and streaming speed , data centers are built closest to areas with large concentrations of regular users, like cities, where copies of these media are stored, this setup is called CDN,

(((Global))) companies like Google, FB etc have their own CDNs across countries and continents, but companies like Akamai and Cloudflare are CDN companies that provide usage of their CDN services to customers.

Gormint ofc doesn't have such facilities, if you are a private company then you can use the above mentioned companies CDN services, or use Big Tech's cloud and VPS services like AWS, Google Cloud, MS Azure.


TLDR is we are deficient in many aspects, but all can be fixed given enough time, funding and will on the Gormint's part.

Ching Pongs enjoy a full walled garden Internet( Chinternet ? ) where all big tech Dalal websites are blocked, and even if some are allowed, Chinese companies already have a stranglehold on that respective "niche" like say online shopping for example.

 

[LurkerBaba]

For IT illiterate person like me can someone explain in few bullet points the prerequisite of having own social media apps like twitter.

Who issues Domain names?
Our own massive Data Hosting and servers
Own internet (Let’s call it Indinet) network which operates on our own network lines or by satelites?
Our own IE
Our own Media hosting
Don’t redicule me for being so noob.

Please discuss.

@shade Has answered most of it. But the data center piece needs expansion -

Data centers while important aren't enough. To build a high scale app you need ready made services and infra running on top of hardware. Only a handful of providers have such wide capabilities - AWS (Amazon), Azure (Microsoft), GCP (Google) and probably Alibaba Cloud. Basically its the software and not (just) the hardware which makes them (big tech platforms) so useful. This is why Parler couldn't simply "get off Amazon"

Don't expect GoI or the sarkari employees at NIC to make something even remotely comparable. The closest in India is probably Flipkart's Cloud Platform - Flipkart doesn't use AWS and does most things inhouse (despite funding by Microsoft). Maybe they can convert it into a desi AWS. But there's no incentive for it. Yet

 

[hit&run]

>Who issues Domain names

There is a group called ICANN that manages the top level allocations of domain names and TLDs( .com, .in .cn, .pk etc types )

ICANN - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But if you have to buy a domain name, you have to buy one through various "dalal" companies like GoDaddy, or Namecheap, there are many like this, and are called domain.

btw ICANN just manages the global root DNS servers, upon which other DNS servers depend, DNS servers map text entries like "google.com" to the IP addresses of the servers mentioned in the DNS record, like say 192.102.6.9, these IP addresses are 12 numbers total, divided into blocks of 4 three digit numbers.

>Our own massive Data Hosting and servers

Dunno about Private firms, but nearly all of Gormint websites and web facing services are hosted by data centers of the NIC https://www.nic.in/
Aside from this for those lucrative gormint contracts, you can be sure your IT outsourcing companies, TCS, L&T all may also have their own server farms.

>Our own internet

Yes it can use our own fibre optic or copper cable lines, Bharat is connected to the "Internet" in other countries by means of YUGE under sea internet cables.

These cables touch down in various parts of Bharat's coast, and ISPs big and small have to pay the guys who run these cable "terminals" in India to get their networks connected to the rest of the internet.
IIRC Tata has rights over some of these terminals, and Anil's RCom used to be in management of these too.
Map of world wide undersea cables below

View attachment 77585

And site bans are simple, you go to pr0nhub.com to beat it out to Mia Khalifa's vids, but gormint has decided to ban porn sites, so you get a message saying "Site has been blocked on orders of DOT Government of India", all ISPs have to comply with Gormint ban orders legally.

>Our own IE

If you mean web browsers, most "browser engines" are open source today, like Chrome's blink engine, WebKit of Apple, KDE Konqueror browser engine, I think Mozilla's Gecko engine used in Firefox is open source also, but not sure about that.

Open source means the source code for these programs is openly available, you just need to download the code and compile it, since this very high tech and time consuming to produce piece is readily available, the development of an Indian web browser should be easier by some Gormint entity like say CDAC if not NIC.

>Our own Media hosting

Dunno what you mean by this, images, audio , video all stored in the same kind of servers as web pages are, however for improved download and streaming speed , data centers are built closest to areas with large concentrations of regular users, like cities, where copies of these media are stored, this setup is called CDN,

(((Global))) companies like Google, FB etc have their own CDNs across countries and continents, but companies like Akamai and Cloudflare are CDN companies that provide usage of their CDN services to customers.

Gormint ofc doesn't have such facilities, if you are a private company then you can use the above mentioned companies CDN services, or use Big Tech's cloud and VPS services like AWS, Google Cloud, MS Azure.


TLDR is we are deficient in many aspects, but all can be fixed given enough time, funding and will on the Gormint's part.

Ching Pongs enjoy a full walled garden Internet( Chinternet ? ) where all big tech Dalal websites are blocked, and even if some are allowed, Chinese companies already have a stranglehold on that respective "niche" like say online shopping for example.

Thanks for very detailed response. I owe you few drinks after this. I will only have soft drink though.

My intention is to create an environment which is foolproof and can not be wiped out by big Inc.

Another requisite I may add is email hosting as well. When I joined GAB the email host I am using did not allowed confirmation email to come through them. When I contacted GAB they told me that many email hosts have blocked us.

By Indinet I meant was a ring fenced internet within our boundaries which is controlled by us with kill switch in our hands. What comes in and goes out is controlled by us.
Social media app with only Indian citizens on it, running on our own Indinet, our own IE, our own websites for video, audio and picture hosting, own news portals (Doordarshan), fact checkers, own email hosting, maps, Indipedia, own app market place all of it conducted on our own data servers.

I think this is the whole eco system which we must establish otherwise, no offence to koi app but they seems quite vulnerable to me for the time being.