Indian Sniper Equipment & Tactics

[tharun]

My problem is it is waste of money when the weapon itself is stll good enough for the role it fills and that the point is it's more willy waving to show off about a new toy which simply isn't needed

Waste of money on what? which weapon is good...?
This thread is for .338 caliber sniper rifle for long range sniping....no one is replacing SVD
And your previous reply cost benefit ratio...this is not a corporate investment

 

[Chinmoy]

High altitude sniping takes place over 900m and way beyond, 338 calibre can achieve a first round hit but ideally now we've employed 8.59mm and on current weapon system can gain first round hits at 1100m and beyond with right training

We have yet to move to 8.59, as of now its only 7.62 for us.
Moreover High or Low, sniping does involve Mid, Long and Extra long range. It has nothing to do with altitude. Its all about target visibility.

 

[SofaAloo]

Waste of money on what? which weapon is good...?
This thread is for .338 caliber sniper rifle for long range sniping....no one is replacing SVD
And your previous reply cost benefit ratio...this is not a corporate investment

Start with the L115 series, it has a proven track record of service and reliability

 

[SofaAloo]

Waste of money on what? which weapon is good...?
This thread is for .338 caliber sniper rifle for long range sniping....no one is replacing SVD
And your previous reply cost benefit ratio...this is not a corporate investment

Start with the L115 series, it has a proven track record of service and reliability

 

[ezsasa]

Just incase, technical part of the sniper RFI
Quantity : 5000 rifles

 

[Bornubus]

SVD is overall a good Rifle especially for the time when it was introduced. It will remian with Indian Army. But Sniping has substantially evolved over the years.


The problem with SVD (or any other Marksman Rifle) is that it couldn't properly identify camouflage targets beyond 600 mt and other roles such as counter Sniping.


The scope PSO 1 is almost outdated for Sniping and could roughly comparable with Today's ACOG

 

[SofaAloo]

Just incase, technical part of the sniper RFI
Quantity : 5000 rifles

View attachment 12620 View attachment 12621

The L115A3 will happily fill all of that

 

[ezsasa]

The L115A3 will happily fill all of that

One thing you have to realise is that product brochures mean nothing when trails are conducted by IA.

There have been many instances where so called top of the line western equipment failed miserably in the trails done here.

One thing we have to keep in mind is that unless Indian climatic conditions were kept in mind while designing and prototyping, it is highly unlikely that any equipment will pass a test in Indian conditions. More so incase of precision instrument like a sniper rifle.

 

[Vayuputra]

We need not have to go for a new and expensive sniper rilfe(The L115A3). We can make use of surplus 308 enfield rifles to fill this role. We must not forget that be it 19th century or modern rifle, all rifle bolt action rifles works on one principle. Enfiled rifles should be redesigned so that a telescope can be mounted and to increase the range from 800 mtrs to 1200 or more, all it needs an elongated case with 20% of excessive gun powder and should be redesigned to take that elongated case(magazine). Like this we can save some millions and same amount could be spent on purchasing modern gadgets necessary to hit a target precisely at 1200 mts and above.

 

[ezsasa]

We need not have to go for a new and expensive sniper rilfe(The L115A3). We can make use of surplus 308 enfield rifles to fill this role. We must not forget that be it 19th century or modern rifle, all rifle bolt action rifles works on one principle. Enfiled rifles should be redesigned so that a telescope can be mounted and to increase the range from 800 mtrs to 1200 or more, all it needs an elongated case with 20% of excessive gun powder and should be redesigned to take that elongated case(magazine). Like this we can save some millions and same amount could be spent on purchasing modern gadgets necessary to hit a target precisely at 1200 mts and above.

Range can be increased.

But.

I doubt the kick of 308 can be removed, even after redesigning.

 

[Vayuputra]

Kick can be reduced if not to manageable to some extent by adding springs to the butt, so that impact to the soldiers' shoulder can be reduced.

 

[Vayuputra]

Between, I want our soldiers to carry bullpup sniper rifles, assault rifles, Tavor looks to bulky, it needs to be trimmed down.

 

[sthf]

That's a load of crock. If ww2 era weapons would be working fine then their is no need for replacing the sterlings in service.

It's not just about the bolt action but tonnes of factors are also to be kept in mind. Same goes for the actual real life results not just "brochure specs". Look up some videos on YouTube to understand what I am saying. You can start with Larry Vickers' channel.

Hell Lee Enfield wasn't even the best rifle during WW2.

Sent from my SM-G600FY using Tapatalk

 

[Vayuputra]

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I never said to include ww2 era enfiled rifle. I was referring modified en-filed rifle. something like this.

 

[pmaitra]

Dragnov is a DMR. Why is a DMR being replaced with a sniper rifle? Or is it that our "Snipers" have been using DMRs.

The IA sniper doctrine (training, employment, tactics) is incredibly muddled.

____________________________________________________

Well, Dragunov is a sniper rifle, regardless of whatever role we use it in. The technical designation of Dragunov is SVD (Снайперская Винтовка системы Драгунова . . ./Snayperskaya Vintovka sistem'y Dragunova . . .)

 

[rkhanna]

Actually innacurate. Soviet Orbat has always called it a Designated Marksmen Rifle. You are doing a Russian to English translation.

From the ground up it was designed as a squad support weapon as part of Soviet doctrine. It was derived from the Klashkonov series of Fire Arms

The Dragnov is equivalent to Scoped M-16s and Galils.

Due to cost and availability other WarSaw pact countries however adopted the Dragnov as their Sniper Rifle (to be fair most of these countries didnt have strong enough doctrines for Sniper teams)

Another Exception was that Spetz Units would use Silenced / Shortened Dragnovs for their Sniping Duties

The Official long Range sniping weapon system of the Soviets SV-98 and its predecessors.

Recently the Russians have developed the Orsis system of Long Guns based on the .338 Lapua Round.

 

[Yodha]

I believe that this tender will be cancelled after 5 years and our soldiers will be again left with the outdated dragunovs.

I wish those pea brains in the MOD understand the urgency and in the DAC to select one quickly

 

[pmaitra]

Actually innacurate. Soviet Orbat has always called it a Designated Marksmen Rifle. You are doing a Russian to English translation.

From the ground up it was designed as a squad support weapon as part of Soviet doctrine. It was derived from the Klashkonov series of Fire Arms

The Dragnov is equivalent to Scoped M-16s and Galils.

Due to cost and availability other WarSaw pact countries however adopted the Dragnov as their Sniper Rifle (to be fair most of these countries didnt have strong enough doctrines for Sniper teams)

Another Exception was that Spetz Units would use Silenced / Shortened Dragnovs for their Sniping Duties

The Official long Range sniping weapon system of the Soviets SV-98 and its predecessors.

Recently the Russians have developed the Orsis system of Long Guns based on the .338 Lapua Round.

Yes, I did a translation of the official nomenclature, and that is why I stated that Dragunov is a sniper rifle.

Introspection of the origin of the Dragunov (Yevgeny Dragunov used to make rifles for sporting events) is interesting. In any event, the assignment of the Dragunov in squad support role had more to do with reasons unoriginal to the Dragunov rifle itself.

We in India often assign it the role of a DMR. These are subjective terminologies, and such nomenclature do not follow any set logic. And if you study the discussion in the various military fora, there is no consensus as to what a sniper is and what a marksman is. A simple Google of "Dragunov" will give you the term "sniper" all over the place. Ultimately, take your pick.

One frequent explanation given is that a sniper has a scope while a marksman does not. I do not necessarily endorse or oppose this explanation.

Spoiler: Dragunov

http://www.snipercentral.com/russian-dragunov-svd-2/

 

[armyofhind]

One frequent explanation given is that a sniper has a scope while a marksman does not. I do not necessarily endorse or oppose this explanation.

Not necessarily.
A sniper operates with his spotter either alone doing Recon or HVT hunting.. or providing overwatch for an assault team. Their roles doing SR (Special Reconnaissance) type missions somewhat overlap with Special Forces.

A marksman is part of an infantry squad - used to extend the effective range of the squad and pick off targets from further afar.

 

[pmaitra]

Not necessarily.
A sniper operates with his spotter either alone doing Recon or HVT hunting.. or providing overwatch for an assault team. Their roles doing SR (Special Reconnaissance) type missions somewhat overlap with Special Forces.

A marksman is part of an infantry squad - used to extend the effective range of the squad and pick off targets from further afar.

Whether a soldier operates solo or as part of a group is completely irrelevant. The only think that is relevant is the rifle itself.

To put it differently, the question is what the rifle is designed to do or is capable of doing, not how one chooses to use a rifle.