Indian Sniper Equipment & Tactics

[Yodha]

Since you are having some basic shooting experience can you shed an light how person takes an aim in pistol close to eyes? never mind it was just joke to counter your point not to offend you

Even when a pistol is being used in a CQB scenario, no operator will fire it with both hands stretched out too far. A definitive angle will be maintained at their elbows by bending them to keep the pistol closer to the vision but not too closer to avoid reduction in the visibility range.

The 'Indi'genization is down to the core.

 

[Badsah]

I am also not really good in shooting just did during NCC, and in 1st day hurt my shoulder it's still pain some times, still did very good (nothing to do with my skills it was my officer who said before shooting anyone who missed all bullet to hit target will have to do roll on from top hill and it wasn't grassy ground to be frank), it was 303 SLR rifle and it wasn't in good condition, you know the issue & error when it issued to NCC ppl Jam/Mag spring/Bolt jam all learn it in 1st day of shooting 5 round with SLR 10 round with LMG, 5 round with carbine few grenades to show us not to throw. latter tried my luck for BLC camp but couldn't make it to final,

your second view what happen in Vit was big learning for Amreka and not to repeat same (Boot on Ground) in Afgan, but what happen in Iraq ? did we missed some thing to read they used both Man & Machine then Man+Machine (other side both failed)

We never had edge on Machine 1947/62/65/71 but still we won.... whats your view why we (Indian) won? can you remind me the incident when 20 Sikh fought bravely and holed up the post I guess by 20 sikh soldier. In side note cannot authenticate IN Pilots taught RN Pilots Migs landing on deck without crashing it.

The whole point is made to give an view on Courage,Competency,Knowledge & Skills we Indians have we need few push to become free from Import.

We cant fight with sword when opponent have Gun we need machine but not as beggar or buyer.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

1b1 is a very accurate rifle, Its used as DMR in various units as the ammunition is plenty and rifle has option of scope and cheek rest, The only thing is a major problem is the trigger which is too hard and design for AR use.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

===============================

Some idea about ballistics and requirements, though not in Indian context ..

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian Army hunts for new Sniper Rifle to replace Draganov
The Indian Army is hunting for a new sniper rifle for the infantry which will have considerably more range, fire power and accuracy than the existing inventory, giving soldiers on the borders an edge over the enemy.

Proposals have been invited from global manufacturers to present modern sniper rifles that can take down targets at a range of 1200 metres with highly accurate 8.6 mm bullets – a new standard which has much more stopping power than the 7.62 mm rounds being used at present.

In a request for information, the Army has spelt out its need for over 5,000 new sniper rifles — to be assigned to infantry units that are primarily stationed along the border — and the specifications mean that these would have 50% more range than the currently used Russian Dragunov rifles.

The extra range can be the difference between life and death on the border, particularly on the line of control where soldiers are posted within visual range of each other in mountainous terrain. The escalation in violence on the border has hastened several procurement plans of the Army.

There have been at least three cases of fatal casualties on the Indian side through sniper fire in the past few months. The request for information is the first stage of procurement and tenders are likely to be issued by June next year. The Army has also asked manufacturers for information on whether the rifles required can be manufactured in India as part of a joint venture or through a transfer of license.

This information is needed for the Army to ‘categorise’ the purchase. As per the new procurement policy, only those weapon systems that cannot be made in India would be procured from international sources.

In the case of the sniper rifle, however, the numbers required may not be adequate to produce the weapon in India in a cost beneficial manner. The Army has been trying to procure a new set of weapons for the infantry — the largest warfighting arm of the military.
http://www.defencenews.in/article/Indian-Army-hunts-for-new-Sniper-Rifle-to-replace-Draganov--159470

 

[ghost]

The Indian Army is hunting for a new sniper rifle for the infantry which will have considerably more range, fire power and accuracy than the existing inventory, giving soldiers on the borders an edge over the enemy.

Proposals have been invited from global manufacturers to present modern sniper rifles that can take down targets at a range of 1200 metres with highly accurate 8.6 mm bullets – a new standard which has much more stopping power than the 7.62 mm rounds being used at present.
In a request for information, the Army has spelt out its need for over 5,000 new sniper rifles — to be assigned to infantry units that are primarily stationed along the border — and the specifications mean that these would have 50% more range than the currently used Russian Dragunov rifles.

The extra range can be the difference between life and death on the border, particularly on the line of control where soldiers are posted within visual range of each other in mountainous terrain. The escalation in violence on the border has hastened several procurement plans of the Army.There have been at least three cases of fatal casualties on the Indian side through sniper fire in the past few months. The request for information is the first stage of procurement and tenders are likely to be issued by June next year. The Army has also asked manufacturers for information on whether the rifles required can be manufactured in India as part of a joint venture or through a transfer of license.

This information is needed for the Army to ‘categorise’ the purchase. As per the new procurement policy, only those weapon systems that cannot be made in India would be procured from international sources.

In the case of the sniper rifle, however, the numbers required may not be adequate to produce the weapon in India in a cost beneficial manner. The Army has been trying to procure a new set of weapons for the infantry — the largest warfighting arm of the military.

RFI:https://www.pdffiller.com/en/project/86669392.htm?f_hash=01e922&reload=true

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-to-replace-draganov/articleshow/55865870.cms

 

[ezsasa]

Good.....

.338 Lapua Magnum

I am sure there are fans of this cartridge here....

 

[armyofhind]

Good.....

.338 Lapua Magnum

I am sure there are fans of this cartridge here....

Indeed. I was long hoping to see a change of procedures and adaptation to the Lapua Magnum as standard cartridge for snipers.

 

[sthf]

Finally a proper sniper rifle.

I think army going for .338 LM pretty much confirms that they are determined to get a new rifle in 7.62×51.

Lithuania recently bought AXMC from Accuracy International, IA should look into that. Also Barret M98B is in service with NSG and India has been buying a lot from Barret for the past few years.

 

[Chinmoy]

There goes the OFB 7.62 sniper out of window. Anyway a good move I would say. But who would be the favourite contender around?

 

[Chinmoy]

Finally a proper sniper rifle.

I think army going for .338 LM pretty much confirms that they are determined to get a new rifle in 7.62×51.

Lithuania recently bought AXMC from Accuracy International, IA should look into that. Also Barret M98B is in service with NSG and India has been buying a lot from Barret for the past few years.

.338 means 8.6 x 70mm round. A much more bigger round then 7.62x51mm

 

[PD_Solo]

The .338 Lapua Magnum fills the gap between weapons chambered for standard military rounds such as the 7.62 * 50mm NATO and large, weighty rifles firing the 50 BMG cartridge.It also offers a tolerable amount of barrel wear, which is important to military snipers who tend to fire thousands of rounds a year in practice.

 

[Spindrift]

--------------self delete------------------

 

[piKacHHu]

There goes the OFB 7.62 sniper out of window. Anyway a good move I would say. But who would be the favourite contender around?

How about .50 cal cartridge? What are the merits of .338LM over .50 cal ? Finally, IA has awaken to realise the ground realities at LOC and decided to procure a dedicated sniper rifle for infantry. But why didn't they opt for a more powerful cartridge like .50 cal? Aren't we falling behind in the learning curve.

 

[sthf]

.338 means 8.6 x 70mm round. A much more bigger round then 7.62x51mm

I know that mate. I meant that according to the article, army is looking for a round more powerful than the current "inadequate" 7.62×54R/51 which is a back handed confirmation that IA thinks that 7.62 is more appropriate for a assault/battle rifle than it is for a sniper.

 

[Chinmoy]

How about .50 cal cartridge? What are the merits of .338LM over .50 cal ? Finally, IA has awaken to realise the ground realities at LOC and decided to procure a dedicated sniper rifle for infantry. But why didn't they opt for a more powerful cartridge like .50 cal? Aren't we falling behind in the learning curve.

Weight wise and on aero dynamic ground .338 is a much better then .50 cal. .50 cal is basically a heavy Anti material round developed post WWI to counter newly developed tank armour. Other rounds like Russian 12.7 is also a result of it. Its only during Vietnam era that a rifle is being deigned around this round.

So .50 cal is basically a heavy round and its not a suitable for sniping purpose. Its more of an AMR. Whereas .338 lapua magnum is more scientifically engineered round for sole sniping purpose in 80's. Its a derivative of 300 winchester round. It has longer range then .50 in respect to grains per weight. Its a true anti personal sniping round. More advanced then this is .408 Cheyenne Tactical designed for Cheytac Intervention.

 

[Bornubus]

.50 BMG

Suits the LOC, suits the Pakis. BSF already inducted it.

But i doubt since Army has strict weight requirements almost all .50 BMG Snipers are above 10 kg weight.




Compare with .338 snipers @ 5 - 8 ~ kg


@Kunal Biswas ever heard of LOC spotters like in Siachen posts or is it not practical over LOC


Many of our sniper casualties are head injuries. Last year 3 rd Kumaon JCO martyred on LOC got half his head missing by Paki Sniper.


He was not even on patrol duty but inside the post.

 

[piKacHHu]

Weight wise and on aero dynamic ground .338 is a much better then .50 cal. .50 cal is basically a heavy Anti material round developed post WWI to counter newly developed tank armour. Other rounds like Russian 12.7 is also a result of it. Its only during Vietnam era that a rifle is being deigned around this round.

So .50 cal is basically a heavy round and its not a suitable for sniping purpose. Its more of an AMR. Whereas .338 lapua magnum is more scientifically engineered round for sole sniping purpose in 80's. Its a derivative of 300 winchester round. It has longer range then .50 in respect to grains per weight. Its a true anti personal sniping round. More advanced then this is .408 Cheyenne Tactical designed for Cheytac Intervention.

Going by this diagram below, I think there is not much difference in accuracy between .338 LM and 50 cal, of course, the round ballistics could vary depending upon manufacturer. So what 50 cal is offering is more punching power, more range, and could act as AMR vis-a-vis .338 LM. Even cost wise, if you read some forums of US gun enthusiasts, they say in some cases LM is more expensive than 50 cal. So why to choose an underpowered round and give more weight to accuracy which probably can't be quantified and vary from shooter to shooter? In other words, being a shooter with 50 cal, a kill is certain even if target was hit on torso or near limb areas but with .338LM it is not !! Considering a moderately protected adversary ( with BPJs and Ballistic Helmets) across the LOC, I think 50 cal suits us more than .338LM.

Source: https://thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-178612.html

 

[Chinmoy]

Going by this diagram below, I think there is not much difference in accuracy between .338 LM and 50 cal, of course, the round ballistics could vary depending upon manufacturer. So what 50 cal is offering is more punching power, more range, and could act as AMR vis-a-vis .338 LM. Even cost wise, if you read some forums of US gun enthusiasts, they say in some cases LM is more expensive than 50 cal. So why to choose an underpowered round and give more weight to accuracy which probably can't be quantified and vary from shooter to shooter? In other words, being a shooter with 50 cal, a kill is certain even if target was hit on torso or near limb areas but with .338LM it is not !! Considering a moderately protected adversary ( with BPJs and Ballistic Helmets) across the LOC, I think 50 cal suits us more than .338LM.

Source: https://thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-178612.html

View attachment 12190

Here we are talking about range and weight factor. While .50 cal do provide a much bigger punch and range, but weight wise its a beast to carry. Moreover .50 cal weighs more then double of a .338. For IA its always mobility and weight and .338 delivers both with near perfect accuracy of .50 BMG. If weight would not have been a factor for IA, 14.7 mm round of Vidhwanshak is more capable then the .50 cal.

http://www.huntinggearguy.com/reloading/338-lapua-vs-50-bmg/

 

[piKacHHu]

Here we are talking about range and weight factor. While .50 cal do provide a much bigger punch and range, but weight wise its a beast to carry. Moreover .50 cal weighs more then double of a .338. For IA its always mobility and weight and .338 delivers both with near perfect accuracy of .50 BMG. If weight would not have been a factor for IA, 14.7 mm round of Vidhwanshak is more capable then the .50 cal.

http://www.huntinggearguy.com/reloading/338-lapua-vs-50-bmg/

I agree that weight and mobility aspect has its own merits; even high recoil could be an issue. But I think our doctrine should be versatile not rigid; by sticking to only one round snatches away the flexibility to surprise and engage enemy through different tactics. It would be better if we have a mix of snipers well versed with both .338 LM as well as 50 cal round. It may be their intent but unfortunately they might not have done so because bureaucratic hawks sitting in south block might question why to go for two type of cartridges and guns for same purpose !!
Hoping to see .338LM in IA service ASAP..