Indian Railways News

[Suryavanshi]

I guess average speeds of 120 to 150 kmph would do keeping ticket costs within reach of mango man and won't require lakhs of crores of investment.

Yeah I mean it does not have to be over night just we will have to start somewhere we will reach a stage where people will be willing to pay the deserved price.

I will try to sight an example as to why Original Research is needed for specific Indian needs and problems.

Three Districts Patna, Jehanabad, Gaya have a train track of 98 km.
As you know Besides Patna, Gaya is the second most Populated city as well as tourism hot spot.
A RRTS in this route will do wonders.
But that's not the problem the Problem is this route is a node for 2 other semi important routes
Patna Ranchi and Patna Dehri on sone
Creating a standard gauge would shut these two routes.
So why don't we create a reinforced track to facilitate high speed transit meanwhile the other two train routes can continue to function.
The Traffic on this route is mind boggling, Nearly 2 lakhs people travel on this route on average and if the time can be cut down to 2 hours than people will be ready to dish out 100-200 rs for this journey.

 

[Blademaster]

Vande Bharat Express - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 176109
Average speed of VBE ranges between 79 and 96 kmph depending on the route.

Given Chennai-Bangalore Shatabdi has an average speed of 73 kmph, I doubt VBE will add significant savings in travel time. Just a fancy train with a better travel experience, better food albeit at a higher cost.

We seem to be doing more things cosmetic than structural with really fat budgets. If one has been to the new SMVT Bangalore railway station, you'd know.

If you can't fix the software, tweak the UI/UX.

Well VBE does have a better ride quality index than the others. That is also important. Besides this is a chicken and egg issue. Sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet and pick one. The other will soon to follow.

 

[Blademaster]

Our superfast express trains don't even maintain an average speed of 60 kmph throughout their journey.

Its not the track alone, I have seen trains halt for several minutes, sometimes as much as half an hour outside railway stations to get an empty platform. Times when Chennai-Bangalore double decker arrives 30 minutes earlier and is stranded at Cantonment railway station or slows down to a crawl after Malur.

There are a lot of issues which need to be resolved.

VBE on Chennai-Bangalore stretch should have an average speed of at least 120 kmph. High speed regional connectivity should be topmost priority for the transportation sector.

These are teething problems. We will figure all this out as we go along and obtain operational experience. Most important thing is that we got the ball rolling. Let's keep the momentum going and keep the ball rolling no matter what.

 

[Concard]

It's funny man, some members here saying Vande Bharat trains are just glorified luxury trains. Here is the first VB train.

Vande Bharat Express becomes the most profitable train in India

The New Delhi-Varanasi Vande Bharat Express become most profitable train in India, inaugurated by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on February 15 last year

www.metrorailnews.in

The first VB was very profitable for railways. And we need exactly that. We need IR to be profitable and not depend on GoI to be saved every few years. We need more and more people to use IR for travel in India and use air travel only for time sensitive journeys. I guess track upgradation to achieve speeds of over 150km/h is the next step in this process. Let us first get something going. Nothing is perfect right from day 1. Delhi metro was opened in 2002. Now look at the explosion of metro construction in the country.

 

[assassin162]

If we can elevate the current main lines of railway, we can create our own bullet train.... I don't think bullet train is some rocket science and much different from what we are doing....

EMU trainsets, limited sharp turns, elevated corridor, kavach type systems, other improvements in other technical stuff, full electrification, better platforms, better grade rail tracks ..... And a few minor things that I may have left unknowingly. We should move in this direction only. Upcoming versions of trainsets kf vande bharat will move from current 180 to 220 and then to 240 km version....
We have to move one by one.... Rather than creating a whole network of HSR incompatible with our main rail infra.

 

[omaebakabaka]

If we can elevate the current main lines of railway, we can create our own bullet train.... I don't think bullet train is some rocket science and much different from what we are doing....

EMU trainsets, limited sharp turns, elevated corridor, kavach type systems, other improvements in other technical stuff, full electrification, better platforms, better grade rail tracks ..... And a few minor things that I may have left unknowingly. We should move in this direction only. Upcoming versions of trainsets kf vande bharat will move from current 180 to 220 and then to 240 km version....
We have to move one by one.... Rather than creating a whole network of HSR incompatible with our main rail infra.

Bullet trains are complex and requires vast investments as tolerances are less but worth it. Mumbai to Ahmedabad will create the momentum in other parts of country, India is one place where it might actually be profitable if done correctly due to density from North to South and East to West over time.

 

[Blademaster]

If we can elevate the current main lines of railway, we can create our own bullet train.... I don't think bullet train is some rocket science and much different from what we are doing....

EMU trainsets, limited sharp turns, elevated corridor, kavach type systems, other improvements in other technical stuff, full electrification, better platforms, better grade rail tracks ..... And a few minor things that I may have left unknowingly. We should move in this direction only. Upcoming versions of trainsets kf vande bharat will move from current 180 to 220 and then to 240 km version....
We have to move one by one.... Rather than creating a whole network of HSR incompatible with our main rail infra.

I advocated elevated railways but others on this forum advocated increased bank heights as opposed to elevated railways like bridge style railways. Bridge style railways are the best because you can ensure that no wildlife or livestock will stray across the railways and cause potential derailments and no stupid people recklessly driving cars across the tracks can cause derailments. And it would be very hard to plant bombs. If you protect the pylons with reinforced kevlars and sandbags wrapped around the concrete pillars and back it up with 24/7 smart AI survelliance monitoring combined with infrared & x-ray sensors, you would easily deter any notion of trying to bomb railways.

 

[assassin162]

Bullet trains are complex and requires vast investments as tolerances are less but worth it. Mumbai to Ahmedabad will create the momentum in other parts of country, India is one place where it might actually be profitable if done correctly due to density from North to South and East to West over time.

My question is how and why we cannot upgrade the existing ones? I think we। are alreay in the process of doing so.
Even Railway minister talked about rail track elevation in major areas. This road goes in the same direction .
What distinguishes a bullet railway infra fron ours and how much elevated corridors, better trainsets, better grade rail track, KAVACH TCAS, better facilities on train and platform, what else constitutes bullet train and what else brings speed?

 

[Blademaster]

My question is how and why we cannot upgrade the existing ones? I think we। are alreay in the process of doing so.
Even Railway minister talked about rail track upgradation in major areas. This road goes in the same direction .
What distinguishes a bullet railway infra fron ours and how much elevated corridors, better trainsets, better grade rail track, KAVACH TCAS, better facilities on train and platform, what else constitutes bullet train and what else brings speed?

You can upgrade the rails but it will be a poor man's version of a bullet train. Too little, not enough, and leaves wanting for more, etc.

 

[assassin162]

I advocated elevated railways but others on this forum advocated increased bank heights as opposed to elevated railways like bridge style railways. Bridge style railways are the best because you can ensure that no wildlife or livestock will stray across the railways and cause potential derailments and no stupid people recklessly driving cars across the tracks can cause derailments. And it would be very hard to plant bombs. If you protect the pylons with reinforced kevlars and sandbags wrapped around the concrete pillars and back it up with 24/7 smart AI survelliance monitoring combined with infrared & x-ray sensors, you would easily deter any notion of trying to bomb railways.

Yes, I think railway is and railway should go into the same direction. This is the solution to all our problems.

 

[assassin162]

You can upgrade the rails but it will be a poor man's version of a bullet train. Too little, not enough, and leaves wanting for more, etc.

The question remains, is the differences between the two..... concrete difference between this poor man's bullet train and the rich man's bullet train. So that we can bring those things in our discourse here.

 

[omaebakabaka]

My question is how and why we cannot upgrade the existing ones? I think we। are alreay in the process of doing so.
Even Railway minister talked about rail track elevation in major areas. This road goes in the same direction .
What distinguishes a bullet railway infra fron ours and how much elevated corridors, better trainsets, better grade rail track, KAVACH TCAS, better facilities on train and platform, what else constitutes bullet train and what else brings speed?

Bullet trains similar to Chinese HSR or Japanese Nozomi or Hikari would require concrete foundations and welded rails of high grade steel and so many other low tolerance requirements, most likely our upgrades will be a huge step up overall with reasonable investments and should be sufficient but Mumabi to Ahmedabad is pure bullet train I believe with its own switching and control systems and dedicated new tracks, controlled overland and elevated sections. They are generally not very profitable for a long time...

 

[assassin162]

Bullet trains similar to Chinese HSR or Japanese Nozomi or Hikari would require concrete foundations and welded rails of high grade steel and so many other low tolerance requirements, most likely our upgrades will be a huge step up overall with reasonable investments and should be sufficient but Mumabi to Ahmedabad is pure bullet train I believe with its own switching and control systems and dedicated new tracks.

Pure bullet train with no interoperability with existing system bhavishya me dikkat de sakta hai.... Chinese and Japanese have interoperability between high speed trains and non high speed trains. This factor should also be considered.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Pure bullet train with no interoperability with existing system bhavishya me dikkat de sakta hai.... Chinese and Japanese have interoperability between high speed trains and non high speed trains.

Not really, the tracks are primarily shinkansen lines and not shared. Technically may be same guage (not sure) but not shared with express trains if I remember correctly. Just overall so much better experience compared to airport cattle experience in coach, love the nozomi and hikari's overall service. Even the statations are different in both China and Japan and controlled like airports....economically they are going to be seperate as putting express trains will slow down the bullet trains and they wont stop anywhere other than major cities.

 

[assassin162]

Not really, the tracks are primarily shinkansen lines and not shared. Technically may be same guage (not sure) but not shared with express trains if I remember correctly. Just overall so much better experience compared to airport cattle experience in coach, love the nozomi and hikari's overall service.

They are shared as far as I know.

 

[another_armchair]

These are teething problems. We will figure all this out as we go along and obtain operational experience. Most important thing is that we got the ball rolling. Let's keep the momentum going and keep the ball rolling no matter what.

We have been running so called 'super fast' express trains for decades.

What are/were the lessons learnt?

Shatabdi, Geetanjali wagarah wagarah with speeds ranging between 55 kmph to 60-70 kmph have been around from my childhood days.

These aren't teething problems. This is clearly a malaise.

Most travel in India is between urban clusters with travel distances ranging between 150 km to 600-700 km on most occasions.

I thought we have enough experience to go beyond solving 'teething' problems.

These issues should've been solved in the past decade but they fester on.

OT -

Recent case - My uncle traveled between Tata and Bangalore. Not one meal receipt was provided. They say cost of meal is Rs. 80 but they charge Rs. 120 and say 'this meal is better'. Its the same shit really. The IRCTC caterer refused to give an original signed receipt worth Rs. 80.

The issue is not over whether the meal costs 80 or 120, its about transparency. In the end the guy serving the meals said 'koi baat nahi.. aap free mein kha lo..'. My uncle and a couple of other passengers left the money for him to take.

Railways have kicked out most hawkers, peddlers from platforms and stations. Everything is based on tenders and fat commissions... and when one pays a big fat commission, you know where they will recover that money from.

 

[omaebakabaka]

They are shared as far as I know.

Someone can correct me here but from my experience in riding bullet trains in China and Japan, you only pass express trains at stations on parallel lines and I never saw a bullet train passing another express train outside stations and stations are generally seperate....like shin osaka for bullet train and only limited boarding points for bullet trains in Tokyo too....tokyo and shinagawa I remember for sure. I noticed same in Xian, Xinining and Beijing, they are generally located one level down the main station.

 

[fooLIam]

It's funny man, some members here saying Vande Bharat trains are just glorified luxury trains. Here is the first VB train.

Vande Bharat Express becomes the most profitable train in India

The New Delhi-Varanasi Vande Bharat Express become most profitable train in India, inaugurated by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on February 15 last year

www.metrorailnews.in

The first VB was very profitable for railways. And we need exactly that. We need IR to be profitable and not depend on GoI to be saved every few years. We need more and more people to use IR for travel in India and use air travel only for time sensitive journeys. I guess track upgradation to achieve speeds of over 150km/h is the next step in this process. Let us first get something going. Nothing is perfect right from day 1. Delhi metro was opened in 2002. Now look at the explosion of metro construction in the country.

Does Indian railway a “goverment Organization which hires its administrative and managerial HR from “UPSC” , even thinks on the line of getting profitable.

 

[omaebakabaka]

We have been running so called 'super fast' express trains for decades.

What are/were the lessons learnt?

Shatabdi, Geetanjali wagarah wagarah with speeds ranging between 55 kmph to 60-70 kmph have been around from my childhood days.

These aren't teething problems. This is clearly a malaise.

Most travel in India is between urban clusters with travel distances ranging between 150 km to 600-700 km on most occasions.

I thought we have enough experience to go beyond solving 'teething' problems.

This issues should've been solved in the past decade but they fester on.

OT -

Recent case - My uncle traveled between Tata and Bangalore. Not one meal receipt was provided. They say cost of meal is Rs. 80 but they charge Rs. 120 and say 'this meal is better'. Its the same shit really. The IRCTC caterer refused to give an original signed receipt worth Rs. 80.

The issue is not over whether the meal costs 80 or 120, its about transparency. In the end the guy serving the meals said 'koi baat nahi.. aap free mein kha lo..'. My uncle and a couple of other passengers left the money for him to take.

Railways have kicked out most hawkers, peddlers from platforms and stations. Everything is based on tenders and fat commissions... and when one pays a big fat commission, you know where they will recover that money from.

I think with everythjing going cashless, these service problems sure have light at the end of tunnel in near future. Service and hygiene in general improved for sure in some railway zones, some are still in very poor shape and maintained really bad. I found SCR better than WR overall with cleaner trains and on time and service generally better.

 

[Blademaster]

We have been running so called 'super fast' express trains for decades.

What are/were the lessons learnt?

Shatabdi, Geetanjali wagarah wagarah with speeds ranging between 55 kmph to 60-70 kmph have been around from my childhood days.

These aren't teething problems. This is clearly a malaise.

Most travel in India is between urban clusters with travel distances ranging between 150 km to 600-700 km on most occasions.

I thought we have enough experience to go beyond solving 'teething' problems.

These issues should've been solved in the past decade but they fester on.

Those Shatabdhi trains are not really bullet trains. They were really the poor man's version. For starters, the coaches were not designed to go higher than 99 kmph so there was really a limit to how fast the trains could go. If you want a real bullet train, you gotta overhaul the entire thing. That is where the VBE comes in. They overhauled the entire thing to allow the train to go faster.