Indian nuclear submarines

[warrior monk]

Thermal energy conversion for a nuclear reactor would be around 30-35% that means 80-86MWt would be 24-28 MWe...same as virginia class attack submarine........

Actually it depends upon how much is transferred to the turbines . Virginia's S9G reactor transfers 30 MW or 40 000 SHP but for Arihant it is lower more like 20 to 25 MW .

 

[warrior monk]

What I want to say is, just don't say they have 24 or 16 SLBMs, you have to
consider the weight of their SLBM. If you have heavy SLBM (which implies that
SLBM has more range), you have to built a heavy SSBN. If I am not wrong, not a
single Trident-II or M51 will fit in Arihant if they want to (becuse of their
weights).

Actually it depends upon the Weight of the missile , Height of the missile (Able to fit in the hull basically around 13 to 14 mtrs), diameter under 2.5 meters and the capability of the cold launch/hard launch system to eject the missile from of the tube. You make a gas launch system able to throw a 55 tonne missile out of the tube if you are using a cold launch system and if you have capped the height of the slbm to under 14 mtrs you can launch it from Indian SSBNs.

 

[Superdefender]

@warrior monk, if such a thing is even possible, then how many 55k ton SLBMs can INS Arihant carry? I suppose only 1! And how can you cap the height of a heavy SLBM? They have long ranges. The heavier (and long range) a SLBM becomes, the more height it takes. Is not it so?

 

[salute]

Thanks @warrior monk & @Gessler for replying.
American Ohio class ssbn displaces 16,000tn when surfaced. Each can carry
24 Trident-II SLBMs (Wt: 59,000kg, Range: 12,000km).
French Triomphant class ssbn displaces 12,000tn when surfaced. Each can carry
16 M51 SLBMs (Wt: 52,000kg, Range: 10,000km).
Indian Arihant class ssbn displaces 6,000tn when surfaced. Each can carry
4 K-4 SLBMs (Wt: 17,000kg, Range: 3,500km).
What I want to say is, just don't say they have 24 or 16 SLBMs, you have to
consider the weight of their SLBM. If you have heavy SLBM (which implies that
SLBM has more range), you have to built a heavy SSBN. If I am not wrong, not a
single Trident-II or M51 will fit in Arihant if they want to (becuse of their
weights). And those are heavily Mirved too! It is 2016 and we still rely on old
Rus's tech of 70's/80's. And @Gessler is saying S-5 is 20,000tn!!! How can we
leapfrog from S4 to directly 20k tn, that is out of my thinking.

the leap from s4 to 20k tn is that russian tech like big russian subs borei ???

 

[warrior monk]

@warrior monk, if such a thing is even possible, then how many 55k ton SLBMs can INS Arihant carry? I suppose only 1!

Don't know but upto 4 (guessing ) theoretically but the big problem will be the ejector system won't be able to eject the missile at great depth due to the small size of the system so the sub will have to come more near the surface making it vulnerable and the vibration of the launch will generate huge acoustic signature making it easy to detect . So to safely launch at depths huge SLBMs s you need a bigger sub.

 

[Superdefender]

@warrior monk, that's what I had said earlier! You can't throw a tennis ball as high as a pingpong ball. It is just common sense. I told we needed bigger sub for that.

 

[Gessler]

there is an mk-1 and mk-2 version of K-4 SLBM ??

Sources have always talked about an extended-range K-4 coming after the present 3500-km one. Whether they'll be called Mk.2 or Mod.2 I don't know for sure.

Do you have any time periods for the future SSBN class after the three Arihant class because I don't think it would be easy to build a 20000 tonne SSBN without first making a 220 to 250 Mwt 4th gen reactor we would probably require 100000 + shp and we are still in 2nd generation with S2 reactor with moderately enriched fuel . A significant upgrade of reactor technology will be required , we cannot go the soviet way using using twin reactors for redundancy as it will require significant amount of fuel . If Sengupta is right it will take more than 15 years for a single such submarine to join our force and we will need a significant upgrade of project Varsha for handling such reactor.

Don't expect to see the S-5 for the next 10 years at the least. It'll probably appear for sea-trials at the same time as when the nuclear IAC-2 carrier would be getting inducted.

But rest assured, no Arihants will be converted until all 3 of the bigger SSBN-class haven't been inducted and have taken over the second-strike role completely. That's a long, long time away. Their new role could begin after they go through the ROH period for refueling the reactors first.

Sengupta says the reactors for the S-5 would be in the 190Mwt class. Russian agencies are gonna be hand-holding BARC/DAE throughout the process of designing, developing & producing these reactors. A single reactor is stated to be enough for the SSBN. I am just as clueless about the specifics of the reactor as anyone. We're not just trying to count the chickens before they hatch, we're trying to count them even before the eggs have been laid.

I don't think Arihant or any of its class will ever see SSN/SSGN duty as its reactor is underpowered which will reduce its cruise speed which makes it a good SSBN not an good SSN/SSGN.

They might receive some upgrades during the ROH, I do not know. But we have to work within what we have. After the S-5s have been inducted, it makes no sense to keep the Arihants, with their pitifully low 4 silo-capacity as SSBNs. They can deliver a much better punch as an SSGN with cruise missiles.

For India to ever take on Chinese SSNs and SSGNs Barracuda class is not it though Barracudas have SYCOBS (système de combat pour Barracuda et SSBN) the battle management system which is a class in itself rest all features is not sufficient to take on Chinese SSNs or SSGNs .The problem with Barracuda class is that the submarine has four 533mm torpedo tubes and only carries 18 torpedoes which is low for a SSN especially if we are going to go up against Chinese type 095 SSNs . Barracuda is an excellent small sub compared to other SSNs with hybrid propulsion electric for normal use and pump-jet for cruising which is good for SSBN escort not a hot war sub. We should rather work with the Russians as we already used their OK-650 reactor geometry of 971 it would be foolish to go for French small SSNs which uses a different reactor we should stick to our tried and tested method .

We are simply not looking to build exactly what China is building. Our needs are different. For the IOR waters, being smaller & lighter is the best way to go. That said, it is too soon to even speculate. We do not know as yet what the SSNs might look like (it is true Russia also offered their own SSN design in the 5,000-ton category), or what they could carry.

Know this : what we get will be in line with what IN wants, and what the strategic thinkers believe that we want.

Now, if you're sad that India is not getting 10 CBGs and Tumblehome-hull destroyers, I can't say anything but the self-explanatory "it's not in our needs".

 

[Gessler]

And @Gessler is saying S-5 is 20,000tn!!! How can we
leapfrog from S4 to directly 20k tn, that is out of my thinking.

Simply put : with Russian help.

i.e. the same way how we managed to jump from license-building an 1800-ton HDW Type-209 diesel-electric submarines to a 6000-8000 tons nuclear SSBN. With Russian assistance along the way.

 

[cannonfodder]

India’s first nuclear submarine INS Arihant ready for operations, passes deep sea tests

India’s first nuclear armed submarine is now ready for full fledged operations, having passed several deep sea diving drills as well as weapons launch tests over the past five months and a formal induction into the naval fleet is only a political call away.

Multiple officials closely associated with the project to operationalize the INS Arihant nuclear missile submarine have confirmed to ET that the indigenously-built boat is now fully-operational and over the past few months, several weapon tests have taken place in secrecy that have proven the capabilities of the vessel.

The Arihant, which is the first of five nuclear missile submarines or SSBNs planned for induction, has also undergone deep sea dives off Vishakhapatnam where it was build. A Russian diving support ship —the RFS Epron that arrived on October 1 — has been accompanying the Arihant on its deep sea dives and launch tests, officials told ET.

The Epron — a Prut class submarine rescue vessel — was also the Russian representation for the recently concluded International Fleet Review (IFR) in Vishakhapatnam. India does not currently possess a submarine rescue vessel of this class – a vital requirement during weapon firing tests where all possibilities need to be catered for.

The Arihant incidentally did nottake part in the IFR even though it was ready due to security concerns. The presence of 24 foreign warships, equipped with sensors and equipment that could pick up vital electronic intelligence being the main deterrent.

The Navy has managed to keep under wraps several weapon launch tests from the Arihant over the past five months. The submarine is to be equipped with K 15 (or BO-5) shortrange missiles with a range of over 700 km and the K 4 ballistic missile with a range of 3,500 km. “It has passed all tests and in many things has surpassed our expectations.

Technically the submarine can now be commissioned at any time,” a senior official said. Sources told ETthat the commissioning date could be as early as next month if the Modi government desires. A communication facility to interact with the submarine has already been commissioned into the Navy.

At present, work is already in progress on two more Arihant class submarines at the Ship Building Center (SBC) in Vishakhapatnam which will be larger and more advanced than the first boat. The navy is also accelerating work on INS Varsha – a new strategic naval base with underground pens on the Eastern Coast near Kakinada – where the nuclear assets would be based.

The Navy’s Submarine Design Bureau is also presently working on a new class of nuclear powered attack submarines (SSNs) that it hopes to induct within the next 15 years. The plan is to build at least six SSNs in India, with financial sanction given last year for the project that could cost upwards of Rs 90,000 crore. At present, the only nuclear powered platform in service is the INS Chakra, a Akula class SSN on lease from Russia.

http://idrw.org/indias-first-nuclea...t-ready-for-operations-passes-deep-sea-tests/

 

[sasum]

Does anyone know the specs of the reactor in Arihant ?
What is the expected amount of operational time before having to refuel ?
Is it as good as Russian/American SSBNs which can go a decade without refuelling ?
Is it at least half as good , considering it's our first indigenously built N-reactor

Culled from various newspaper archives:
Nuclear Propulsion

Arihant's Nuclear Power Plant

A significant progress in the development of Arihant took place when the land-based pressurised water reactor became operational in 2004 at the IGCAR in Kalpakkam, near Chennai. Following this, miniaturisation of the land-based PWR had to be carried out to enable it to fit into the confined space of the submarine. The reactor consists of 13 fuel assemblies each having 348 fuel pins. Several companies supplied components for the reactor. High grade steel was supplied by Heavy Engineering Corporation, Ranchi to build the reactor vessel, the steam generator was provided by Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited (BHEL); and Audco India, Chennai built the pressure valves. It needs replacement of fuel rods about every 2 years, ostensibly due to low enriched fuel.

The propulsion plant housing the reactor is 42m long and 8m in diameter. The complete propulsion plant along with the primary, secondary, electrical and propulsion systems occupy half of the submarine. To reduce the weight of the plant, light water and enriched uranium is used as opposed to non-enriched uranium used in land-based reactors. The PWR consists of a huge pressure hull, a tank containing water and athe reactor.
Safety
Taking lesson from the past accidents involving submarines, Indian defence scientists at DRDO have developed a health monitoring system for underwater vessels that can alert about any potential breakdown thereby averting a possible mishap. The system works on the philosophy of predictive maintenance and has been installed on the first indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant.
Control and communication systems

Arihant is fitted with a combination of two sonar systems – Ushus and Panchendriya. Ushus is state-of-the-art sonar meant for Kilo Class submarines. Panchendriya is a unified submarine sonar and tactical control system, which includes all types of sonar (passive, surveillance, ranging, intercept and active). It also features an underwater communications system.

 

[garg_bharat]

@sasun. Nice article.

Gives accurate information.

 

[sasum]

@sasun. Nice article.

Gives accurate information.

Thanks
.......................... ..........

 

[ashdoc]

are the arihant's missiles ready and fitted onto the sub ?

 

[INDRA Networks]

INS Arihant ready to be pressed into nation's sercive.
Passesd all the last stage crucial trails

 

[Immanuel]

Awesome news, the next boats in this class will be bigger. Looking forward to quick and speedy induction of our little puppy

 

[warrior monk]

But rest assured, no Arihants will be converted until all 3 of the bigger SSBN-class haven't been inducted and have taken over the second-strike role completely. That's a long, long time away. Their new role could begin after they go through the ROH period for refueling the reactors first.

No Arihant class may ever be converted to SSN/SSGN duty because of the under powered reactor and not enough second strike capability even with the larger boomers especially with our puny warheads period.

Sengupta says the reactors for the S-5 would be in the 190Mwt class. Russian agencies are gonna be hand-holding BARC/DAE throughout the process of designing, developing & producing these reactors. A single reactor is stated to be enough for the SSBN. I am just as clueless about the specifics of the reactor as anyone. We're not just trying to count the chickens before they hatch, we're trying to count them even before the eggs have been laid.

If it is true then it is a good news . Well Russians might not help us as it will violate NPT even in 2000 they might have helped us only in the core geometry of the Ok-650 for us to miniaturize.It is highly optimistic for us to expect them to help us in it after we sucked up to west . All these may be a big " if "

it makes no sense to keep the Arihants, with their pitifully low 4 silo-capacity as SSBNs. They can deliver a much better punch as an SSGN with cruise missiles.

Even with their pitiful silo they still give us second strike capability . Given our Puny nuclear warheads it will be pinnacle of stupidity to convert them into anything but SSBN . Three or six extra large subs (Even with the remote likelihood we make them ) is not sufficient for our second strike .

We are simply not looking to build exactly what China is building. Our needs are different. For the IOR waters, being smaller & lighter is the best way to go. That said, it is too soon to even speculate. We do not know as yet what the SSNs might look like (it is true Russia also offered their own SSN design in the 5,000-ton category), or what they could carry.

Know this : what we get will be in line with what IN wants, and what the strategic thinkers believe that we want.

Now, if you're sad that India is not getting 10 CBGs and Tumblehome-hull destroyers, I can't say anything but the self-explanatory "it's not in our needs".

Well who said we are looking for 5000t SSNs , all these are in realm of speculation. India should build upon the 971 and the OK 650 reactor of the subs it has operated upon not some midget french SSN .

Now, if you're sad that India is not getting 10 CBGs and Tumblehome-hull destroyers, I can't say anything but the self-explanatory "it's not in our needs".

WTF does this mean ?????????????????????????????????????

 

[Bornubus]

Last year a Naval base was commissioned off the Gujrat Coast, it would house various warships especially for supporting Arihant while the SUB lurking around Paki Coast and EEZ creating shivers among aleeady Paranoid Paki Awam.

And a Naval stand off is always welcome with Token Paki Navy.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

India’s First Nuclear Submarine INS Arihant Ready for Operations, Passes Deep Sea Tests

India's first nuclear armed submarine is now ready for fullfledged operations, having passed several deep sea diving drills as well as weapons launch tests

NEW DELHI: India's first nuclear armed submarine is now ready for full fledged operations, having passed several deep sea diving drills as well as weapons launch tests over the past five months and a formal induction into the naval fleet is only a political call away.

Multiple officials closely associated with the project to operationalize the INS Arihant nuclear missile submarine have confirmed to ET that the indigenously-built boat is now fully-operational and over the past few months, several weapon tests have taken place in secrecy that have proven the capabilities of the vessel.

The Arihant, which is the first of five nuclear missile submarines or SSBNs planned for induction, has also undergone deep sea dives off Vishakhapatnam where it was build. A Russian diving support ship —the RFS Epron that arrived on October 1 — has been accompanying the Arihant on its deep sea dives and launch tests, officials told ET.

The Epron — a Prut class submarine rescue vessel — was also the Russian representation for the recently concluded International Fleet Review (IFR) in Vishakhapatnam. India does not currently possess a submarine rescue vessel of this class - a vital requirement during weapon firing tests where all possibilities need to be catered for.

The Arihant incidentally did nottake part in the IFR even though it was ready due to security concerns. The presence of 24 foreign warships, equipped with sensors and equipment that could pick up vital electronic intelligence being the main deterrent.

The Navy has managed to keep under wraps several weapon launch tests from the Arihant over the past five months. The submarine is to be equipped with K 15 (or BO-5) shortrange missiles with a range of over 700 km and the K 4 ballistic missile with a range of 3,500 km. "It has passed all tests and in many things has surpassed our expectations.

Technically the submarine can now be commissioned at any time," a senior official said. Sources told ETthat the commissioning date could be as early as next month if the Modi government desires. A communication facility to interact with the submarine has already been commissioned into the Navy.

At present, work is already in progress on two more Arihant class submarines at the Ship Building Center (SBC) in Vishakhapatnam which will be larger and more advanced than the first boat. The navy is also accelerating work on INS Varsha - a new strategic naval base with underground pens on the Eastern Coast near Kakinada - where the nuclear assets would be based.

The Navy's Submarine Design Bureau is also presently working on a new class of nuclear powered attack submarines (SSNs) that it hopes to induct within the next 15 years. The plan is to build at least six SSNs in India, with financial sanction given last year for the project that could cost upwards of Rs 90,000 crore. At present, the only nuclear powered platform in service is the INS Chakra, a Akula class SSN on lease from Russia.

Source>>

 

[Screambowl]

but still we have not seen the pics. If Indian government is so secretive about this project then it means there is something super dooper about it

 

[sasum]

but still we have not seen the pics. If Indian government is so secretive about this project then it means there is something super dooper about it

Arihant is not yet armed and remains vulnerable to attack/ sabotage. In the recent past we lost a number of warships under mysterious circumstances.