Indian nuclear submarines

[bhramos]

In case, as Sayareakd explained that Nuclear may prove expensive then, India should work on Diesel Electric subs it will prove helpful for IN..
Besides nuclear Arihant we should work on similar Arihant`s type subs with by Diesel electric power-plant..
Correct me if i am wrong..

TOT involved then we have a good AIP deign..

as from some inner sources of construction of ATV facility, INS Arihant is 2nd piece, and 3rd one is already on its way, and would enter the service by 2015.
but 1st piece was built and scraped off, due to some technical and wielding problems.....
so INS Arihant no is S-02.

when comes to diesel subs compared to n-subs with SLBM's , in some or the other way, N-subs are best then diesel subs, except maintiance or cost.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

as from some inner sources of construction of ATV facility, INS Arihant is 2nd piece, and 3rd one is already on its way, and would enter the service by 2015.
but 1st piece was built and scraped off, due to some technical and wielding problems.....
so INS Arihant no is S-02.

when comes to diesel subs compared to n-subs with SLBM's , in some or the other way, N-subs are best then diesel subs, except maintiance or cost.

Its true, but what i was asking..
Is it possible to make a variant of Arihant into diesel - electric configuration?

 

[bhramos]

Its true, but what i was asking..
Is it possible to make a variant of Arihant into diesel - electric configuration?

Its definatly possible, but when we can convert Diesel subs to nukes, its possible to convert Nuke subs into diesel is possible,
but in case of Arihant its impossible because until Govt toughly thinks to convert it. as 3-4 N-subs have been ordered already, may last may come by 2020, after that converting it would not be best option,
better now go for 2nd line of subs would economically and Technically be a good option, as of present going competion would not be signed before 1st scorpene arrived i.e. 2013-14.

 

[EagleOne]

but diesel electric subs have limited long range the can stay in long underwater so it make them difficult to track

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its definatly possible, but when we can convert Diesel subs to nukes, its possible to convert Nuke subs into diesel is possible,
but in case of Arihant its impossible because until Govt toughly thinks to convert it. as 3-4 N-subs have been ordered already, may last may come by 2020, after that converting it would not be best option,
better now go for 2nd line of subs would economically and Technically be a good option, as of present going competion would not be signed before 1st scorpene arrived i.e. 2013-14.

I doubt abt Diesel to nuke coz disal subs are small and puting the reactor ( which requires large amount of space ) though in the hull of Nuclear sub which is large can be modified to have Diesel-electric plant...

But i was not taking abt existing or future nuclear subs but a variant of Arihant which can be produce with the ongoing production..
something like this>>>

3-4 nuclear Arihant with additional 5-6 diesel electric variant of Arihant..

For next 20-50 years 10+ nuclear sub may prove expensive for country economy so having locally made Diesel-electric is best for navy..

 

[EagleOne]

3-4 nuclear Arihant with additional 5-6 diesel electric variant of Arihant..

For next 20-50 years 10+ nuclear sub may prove expensive for country economy so having locally made Diesel-electric is best for navy..

may be not we are on the way to produce 3 nuke subs in up to 2011 and 1 ins chakra so total 4 so it is possibble to have 10 nuke subs by 2020

 

[AJSINGH]

Converting Nuclear subs to diesel would be foolish in the first place and vise versa is stupid too because then you have to rip apart the whole hull ( teraring it from the top ) clear the diesel engine room and then restart the wiring and lower the reactor , it would be very expensive by the way , might as well build electric diesel sub from the start .

 

[AJSINGH]

as long as we have diesel subs we need refueling base, if it needs to attack deep in Indian Ocean

 

[Kunal Biswas]

as long as we have diesel subs we need refueling base, if it needs to attack deep in Indian Ocean

Japan & China and Russia all are using Diesel-electric subs in their respective sea/oceans, they are good at hunting killing job, beside IN already operating KILO and in future Scropean class..

Converting Nuclear subs to diesel would be foolish in the first place and vise versa is stupid too because then you have to rip apart the whole hull ( teraring it from the top ) clear the diesel engine room and then restart the wiring and lower the reactor , it would be very expensive by the way , might as well build electric diesel sub from the start .

@AJSINGH,
Read my previous post..

3-4 nuclear Arihant with additional 5-6 diesel electric variant of Arihant..

I said additional..

may be not we are on the way to produce 3 nuke subs in up to 2011 and 1 ins chakra so total 4 so it is possibble to have 10 nuke subs by 2020

Arihant is the first type of Indian nuclear sub and 3 are planed, Further Subs will be advance but we will see them after 2030 probably..

 

[bhramos]

how could it be like this, a diesel submarine with Nuke reactor.
eg B-90 Sarov

The Sevmash plant in Severodvinsk, Arkhangelsk Oblast, has completed construction of the B-90 "Sarov", a new diesel-fuelled submarine with a nuclear reactor as a supplementary power generator.

The B-90 "Sarov", which is part of the project 20 120, left the shipyard on Friday, a press note from the Sevmash company reports.

The vessel is unique with its combination of diesel and reactor engine. The sub is likely to be applied by the Northern Fleet as spy vessel in northern waters.

The vessel has been designed by the Rubin engineering company in 1989. Construction was started at the Krasnoe Sormovo shipyard in Nizhnii Novgorod, and then later continued at the Sevmash plant.

http://www.informationdissemination.net/2007/12/russias-not-so-super-secret-special.html

 

[bhramos]

The best part this Subs is like most modern SSK's use fuel cell for AIP propulsion , instead of fuel cell, it uses nuke reactor for AIP , thereby giving unlimited endurance , unlike normal SSK's which have limited endurance.

B-90 Sarov

 

[bhramos]

Navy creating a new base for nuke submarines

New Delhi: The navy is coming up with a secret base on the east coast, under the code name Project Varsha, to berth its upcoming fleet of nuclear submarines.
India's first indigenous nuclear-powered submarine, INS Arihant, under project Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV), was launched for trials last year at the Visakhapatnam-based ship building centre (SBC). Arihant is still undergoing its criticality certification at the SBC.
The navy has plans to build five more such nuclear-powered submarines at SBC. The defence ministry also took over the Hindustan Shipyard Limited (HSL) in Visakhapatnam last year from the ministry of shipping, so that it could use HSL's facilities and infrastructure to build the submarines.
The new base, Project Varsha, will have special features to ensure safety of the submarines and the personnel onboard for maintenance. According to a source, the government would be taking the help of some other countries for the huge project as it required special fitments and attachments made of special material.
Located about 200 kilometres around Visakhapatnam at an undisclosed location, the base would be on the lines of the Chinese nuclear submarine base in Hainan island, the source said. The base will have accommodation and other facilities for the officers and men posted onboard.
The base would accommodate other submarines and ships if required, the source said, as a lot of vessels due for induction in the near future were facing space constraint.
Refusing to disclose the cost of the project and whether there would be any special facility for missiles, a source said, "Not sure when it would be ready. It might take time as it's a special project and meant mainly for nuclear submarines."

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=13024

5 more submarines!!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The best part this Subs is like most modern SSK's use fuel cell for AIP propulsion , instead of fuel cell, it uses nuke reactor for AIP , thereby giving unlimited endurance , unlike normal SSK's which have limited endurance.

B-90 Sarov

Defiantly yes!
But you cant relay on total nuclear sub force..
It would be astronomically expensive for Navy..

how could it be like this, a diesel submarine with Nuke reactor.
eg B-90 Sarov
http://www.informationdissemination.net/2007/12/russias-not-so-super-secret-special.html

@Bhramos,
B-90 is a Special Russian sub, But India is having KILOS, Are u saying putting Indian Nuclear reactor in Kilo?
Certainly Not!

India will have its Nuclear submarine fleet in Indian Ocean but you cannot just relay on Nuclear sub for entire navy..
KILOS are getting old and we need additional 6+ more subs in eastern fleet and Diesel electric version of Arihant fits the role ( If it is possible or their would be a new hull deign)..



Ps. Indian is having a ambitious plan for Indigenous submarine force, The submarine would be DCN and Indian Project 75B, Now we stuck with scorpean subs which also effecting the Indigenous development, Therefore Indian built Nuclear sub deign can also be used for Indigenous Diseal - electric Subs..

 

[p2prada]

Its true, but what i was asking..
Is it possible to make a variant of Arihant into diesel - electric configuration?

It is possible. 100%.

But it is a waste of time and money. A diesel electric sub should be small and light, unlike the Arihant.
A new development of a 1500tons submarine would be better. Small and light means they get to be more quiet and operate in shallow regions.

If we stick a 6000-10000 tons sub in the coastal regions, it will get picked apart by enemy ships easily.

 

[bhramos]

KILOS are getting old and we need additional 6+ more subs in eastern fleet and Diesel electric version of Arihant fits the role ( If it is possible or their would be a new hull deign)..



Ps. Indian is having a ambitious plan for Indigenous submarine force, The submarine would be DCN and Indian Project 75B, Now we stuck with scorpean subs which also effecting the Indigenous development, Therefore Indian built Nuclear sub deign can also be used for Indigenous Diseal - electric Subs..

i mean IN would not be able to build Diesel subs before 2020.
as Scorpene are being build at MDL, may be 2nd line could be built in HSL, where could be other choice to build subs..
In India any proposal takes minimum Decade to pass through all official process.
so no chance in near future.
IN will build more Scorpene's after 6 Subs. thats per sure. with that expertise in future we may design new Deseil Subs.

 

[AJSINGH]

why not second line in another country as already the shipyards are busy with current orders ? isnt acquring subs at faster rate more important or waiting for a ship yard to get empty and then take the name of "indeginious " construction

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It is possible. 100%.

But it is a waste of time and money. A diesel electric sub should be small and light, unlike the Arihant.
A new development of a 1500tons submarine would be better. Small and light means they get to be more quiet and operate in shallow regions.

If we stick a 6000-10000 tons sub in the coastal regions, it will get picked apart by enemy ships easily.

Thats exatly i want to know, But i guess the work for Diesel-electric power-plant on existing hull may prove worthy..
Lets exclude the big chunk of reactor and various components like coolant etc also VLS on sub it will easily come at least 3000 tons with all the same sensors as on Arhiant will make it a formidable sub also it will be cheap, and consume less time..

Though your point is also correct, New smaller hull specifically for small hunter killer sub is a good idea, With all the same sensor and weapon ( Except VLS ) it will consume less time and money..

IN will build more Scorpene's after 6 Subs. thats per sure. with that expertise in future we may design new Deseil Subs.

Yes Project 75B, But looking at present i don't have much hope for Indigenous Sub even after 2025, All i see is more money and delays, further more blacklisted companys..
But if we have a approval for homemade Sub based on Arihant it would be much faster..

In India any proposal takes minimum Decade to pass through all official process.

Still if possible they should propose this idea..
Whatever the reply can be dealt afterwords..

 

[bhramos]

Still if possible they should propose this idea..
Whatever the reply can be dealt afterwords..

yeah may be we should this contract to private ship building as they could wet up of the officials hands soon and get it done soon,
if its a Govt Company they are not going to get commissions so the process would be slow.

 

[AJSINGH]

Govt of India is already delaying the construction of second line of subs as a result IN sub fleet will be down by 50%

 

[nandu]

Indian nuclear submariners sail on US nuke sub

The Obama administration may have yet to bridge a trust deficit with the Indian government but cooperation is galloping in the military sphere. In a first of its kind, three crewmembers from India's indigenously built nuclear submarine INS Arihant sailed for a week onboard the USS Annapolis, a Los Angeles class nuclear powered attack submarine, in the Arabian Sea last month.

The attachment, kept under wraps, formed part of the annual Malabar joint Indo-US naval exercises which concluded off Goa in early May. The move is significant. Just as the US is guarded about access to its nuclear submarines, the Indian navy is wary about granting access to its pioneering nuclear submariners or even a glimpse of its first indigenously built nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine, the Arihant.

Photography was banned at the Arihant's July 26 launch last year and the first official photograph of the nuclear submarine was released by the government only last week. (The first photograph of the Arihant was carried by India Today last year). The Arihant crew were given complete access to all areas of the Annapolis and had a hands-on experience of life on board a US nuclear powered submarine at sea. India's homemade SSBN is meanwhile undergoing harbour trials in Visakhapatnam and is expected to begin full-fledged sea trials only next year and is slated to be commissioned in 2012.

The Indian navy's first nuclear submarine, the INS Chakra, an Akula-2 nuclear powered attack submarine is to be commissioned later this year in Vladivostok. The Chakra is to join the navy on a ten-year lease and is to be used to train crews for the Arihant class submarines.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/S...-nuclear-submariners-sail-on-us-nuke-sub.html