Indian nuclear submarines

SKC

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
9,472
Likes
32,244
Country flag
Both US & Russia have lost their edge of industrial space capabilities since 90s. They are nowhere near they used to be.
It's not that they lost their edge but there are no longer the same will, purpose and incentives of doing that level of work for Space anymore.

US can revive their space programs at will whenever there is any need for it. US was spending over $20-30 Billion dollars in 1960-70s money on their space program. However, at the end of cold war there was no interest from Public and from Govt both to do spend such outrageous amount anymore.

They did revive Moon project again and they are well on track for lading on moon again by end of this decade.
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,416
Likes
56,938
Country flag
I don't fully agree that the US and Russia have lost their edge in space technology.
You will agree with me if you have ever worked in heavy engineering/nuclear engineering/aerospace industry etc..

Technological edge has to be sustained by continuous industrial involvement. When after a cold war, you discontinue projects and shutdown factories and repurpose your space agency only for low cost Unmanned missions, added scientists & engineers who built things like Saturn V & Gemini have retired/died became inexperienced, workshops and machines reconditioned or decommissioned.

This explains why it took US over 10 years to launch SLS in space after making up its mind despite the fact that it was having Saturn V back in 1969. They have to import engines and other components of even satellites from Asia & Russia.

And no, US & USSR are no longer industrial and economic overlords they used to be. Emerging powers have closed gap and came far ahead. China's YF-100 & YF-130, Japan's LE-7, India's Vikas-X & SCE-200, France's Vulcan can pretty much alone or cluster enough to match or even outclassed RS-25 engine based SLS and even create bigger SHLVs. They have launched extra terrestrial probes, have all building blocks in place to send humans in space or plan manned moon landings, then these countries aren't suffering economic decline against US like USSR was facing. There are barely anything USSR & US could and new space powers can't today.

Difference being that new space powers are driven by the virtue of economic and technological goals of countries rather than a space race. So spending won't be haphazard and programs will be more sustainable than US.
There will be no superpowers in near upcoming world, only so many great powers like WW2 era.
I hope you are not suggesting that China has become the pre eminent space power on earth. Replacing the United States and Russia.
PRC has pretty much replaced ESA & RFSA and lags NASA only experience wise.. They have heavy lift system, YF-100 rocket engine in service; enough technology to produce SHLV, highly mobile launchers of all kinds, reusable rockets in trials, a space station in space, extensive experience in docking and berthing (added with in space refuelling and de orbiting), soft moon land and sample return capability good enough to prove their robotics and finally soft landing of Mars (which proves their IAD capabilities to penetrate other atmospheres).

Many of these technologies have been discontinued by US/Russia, in just mid or early stages of development/concept stages in India & EU. PRC lies behind only in number of human spaceflights and space probes which explains that it only has to catch up in operational capabilities with US.

It has all the building blocks tested and in service to be a prominent space power. China is pretty much a major space power now, ahead of USSR in cold war era.
The US is still the largest economy in the world and can allocate sufficient resources for space research.
No, China and Japan's economic outlook, their reserves and surplus allows them to put more budget than US, India can spend more than Russia & EU.
It's just operational requirements which prevent it. Just as without a space station design, it's useless for India to make an HLV.
Russia suffers from an under performing economy. They simply don't have the money to fund all their space dreams. You will see them progress quite fast in space if their economy picks up and generates surpluses.
They won't be able to outspend first tier powers anymore still. Rise and fall of great powers is essentially economics.
The international community led by the US alliance has established an gridlock of treaties and arms control agreements to shackle emerging nuclear powers like India. Unfair. Suddenly nuke testing has become a dirty word.
Not countries like India but only India. NSG was specifically formed to sideline India who had started emerging as great power after 1971.
Can any scientist guarantee that simulation would work 100%.
No, neither physical tests nor simulations can allow 100% success given mechanism remains same and geographical parameters might change. Problem with outerspace tests is that you can't even analyse failure or success.

Simulated test anticipating geographical will give 80-90% predictable results.
I agree that testing will involve costs and our short-term to medium term economic growth may suffer.
Tests at this stage will have a permanent and not a short/medium term strangulation for India's economic rise. Thermonuclear bombs are no jokes to be tolerated like ICBMs or ASATs.

Unless Indian national power reaches the level of acting with impunity, tests will only bring more bad to India on all other fronts than it would gain on nuclear front.
 

Tridev123

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
898
Likes
3,160
Country flag
You will agree with me if you have ever worked in heavy engineering/nuclear engineering/aerospace industry etc..

Technological edge has to be sustained by continuous industrial involvement. When after a cold war, you discontinue projects and shutdown factories and repurpose your space agency only for low cost Unmanned missions, added scientists & engineers who built things like Saturn V & Gemini have retired/died became inexperienced, workshops and machines reconditioned or decommissioned.

This explains why it took US over 10 years to launch SLS in space after making up its mind despite the fact that it was having Saturn V back in 1969. They have to import engines and other components of even satellites from Asia & Russia.

And no, US & USSR are no longer industrial and economic overlords they used to be. Emerging powers have closed gap and came far ahead. China's YF-100 & YF-130, Japan's LE-7, India's Vikas-X & SCE-200, France's Vulcan can pretty much alone or cluster enough to match or even outclassed RS-25 engine based SLS and even create bigger SHLVs. They have launched extra terrestrial probes, have all building blocks in place to send humans in space or plan manned moon landings, then these countries aren't suffering economic decline against US like USSR was facing. There are barely anything USSR & US could and new space powers can't today.

Difference being that new space powers are driven by the virtue of economic and technological goals of countries rather than a space race. So spending won't be haphazard and programs will be more sustainable than US.
There will be no superpowers in near upcoming world, only so many great powers like WW2 era.

PRC has pretty much replaced ESA & RFSA and lags NASA only experience wise.. They have heavy lift system, YF-100 rocket engine in service; enough technology to produce SHLV, highly mobile launchers of all kinds, reusable rockets in trials, a space station in space, extensive experience in docking and berthing (added with in space refuelling and de orbiting), soft moon land and sample return capability good enough to prove their robotics and finally soft landing of Mars (which proves their IAD capabilities to penetrate other atmospheres).

Many of these technologies have been discontinued by US/Russia, in just mid or early stages of development/concept stages in India & EU. PRC lies behind only in number of human spaceflights and space probes which explains that it only has to catch up in operational capabilities with US.

It has all the building blocks tested and in service to be a prominent space power. China is pretty much a major space power now, ahead of USSR in cold war era.

No, China and Japan's economic outlook, their reserves and surplus allows them to put more budget than US, India can spend more than Russia & EU.
It's just operational requirements which prevent it. Just as without a space station design, it's useless for India to make an HLV.

They won't be able to outspend first tier powers anymore still. Rise and fall of great powers is essentially economics.

Not countries like India but only India. NSG was specifically formed to sideline India who had started emerging as great power after 1971.

No, neither physical tests nor simulations can allow 100% success given mechanism remains same and geographical parameters might change. Problem with outerspace tests is that you can't even analyse failure or success.

Simulated test anticipating geographical will give 80-90% predictable results.

Tests at this stage will have a permanent and not a short/medium term strangulation for India's economic rise. Thermonuclear bombs are no jokes to be tolerated like ICBMs or ASATs.

Unless Indian national power reaches the level of acting with impunity, tests will only bring more bad to India on all other fronts than it would gain on nuclear front.
Well, we need not agree on everything.
Anyway, cheers Bro.
I will end further discussion on the topic from my side.
 

AZTEC

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Messages
287
Likes
1,538
Country flag
Thinking that US has lost its edge in the military industrial complex is the kindergarden level of thinking. Even I used to think like this about 2 years ago (check my old posts here), until I met some people and gained unconventional knowledge.

It might seem that way from the outside, but trust me, everything on the outside is a Truman show. It's all fake.

There are more things between heaven and earth than are dream of in your philosophy.

The problem is, I can't elaborate because none of you are even remotely equipped to understand it. But if you want to hear it, let me state just one of them: rockets and internal combustion engines have been technically obsolete since October 1954. They have been artificially kept relevant to preserve some powerful interests. So it doesn't really matter who has the better rocket, or if NASA is ahead of CNSA or not.
NASA is just a fake front. The real space program is called SolarWarden, and it is not controlled by any one government.

I have probably said enough to make your faces twitch. xD See that's why I left this forum , there's nobody here who can understand me. Is it because I am crazy, or is it because the general public is living in a Truman Show?
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,416
Likes
56,938
Country flag
Thinking that US has lost its edge in the military industrial complex is the kindergarden level of thinking. Even I used to think like this about 2 years ago (check my old posts here), until I met some people and gained unconventional knowledge.

It might seem that way from the outside, but trust me, everything on the outside is a Truman show. It's all fake.

There are more things between heaven and earth than are dream of in your philosophy.

The problem is, I can't elaborate because none of you are even remotely equipped to understand it. But if you want to hear it, let me state just one of them: rockets and internal combustion engines have been technically obsolete since October 1954. They have been artificially kept relevant to preserve some powerful interests. So it doesn't really matter who has the better rocket, or if NASA is ahead of CNSA or not.
NASA is just a fake front. The real space program is called SolarWarden, and it is not controlled by any one government.

I have probably said enough to make your faces twitch. xD See that's why I left this forum , there's nobody here who can understand me. Is it because I am crazy, or is it because the general public is living in a Truman Show?
LOL? What I just did read?
Thinking that US has lost its edge in the military industrial complex is the kindergarden level of thinking.
US & Russia not having old "relative" edges on military capabilities is not a thinking, it can be supported by annual military induction and production stats.
 

SKC

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
9,472
Likes
32,244
Country flag
Thinking that US has lost its edge in the military industrial complex is the kindergarden level of thinking. Even I used to think like this about 2 years ago (check my old posts here), until I met some people and gained unconventional knowledge.

It might seem that way from the outside, but trust me, everything on the outside is a Truman show. It's all fake.

There are more things between heaven and earth than are dream of in your philosophy.

The problem is, I can't elaborate because none of you are even remotely equipped to understand it. But if you want to hear it, let me state just one of them: rockets and internal combustion engines have been technically obsolete since October 1954. They have been artificially kept relevant to preserve some powerful interests. So it doesn't really matter who has the better rocket, or if NASA is ahead of CNSA or not.
NASA is just a fake front. The real space program is called SolarWarden, and it is not controlled by any one government.

I have probably said enough to make your faces twitch. xD See that's why I left this forum , there's nobody here who can understand me. Is it because I am crazy, or is it because the general public is living in a Truman Show?
1671543937966.jpeg
 

AZTEC

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Messages
287
Likes
1,538
Country flag
LOL? What I just did read?

US & Russia not having old "relative" edges on military capabilities is not a thinking, it can be supported by annual military induction and production stats.
😂 I know, man, I know.
You can delete that post if you want. Give the reason of "fake information by a mad man".

I just felt good after saying it. I don't share my heart's deepest burden often, so...
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,416
Likes
56,938
Country flag
😂 I know, man, I know.
You can delete that post if you want. Give the reason of "fake information by a mad man".

I just felt good after saying it. I don't share my heart's deepest burden often, so...
Just don't post conspiracy theories here yo.
NASA is just a fake front. The real space program is called SolarWarden, and it is not controlled by any one government.

I have probably said enough to make your faces twitch. xD See that's why I left this forum , there's nobody here who can understand me. Is it because I am crazy, or is it because the general public is living in a Truman Show?
 

DumbPilot

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2022
Messages
1,750
Likes
4,179
Country flag
You will agree with me if you have ever worked in heavy engineering/nuclear engineering/aerospace industry etc..

Technological edge has to be sustained by continuous industrial involvement. When after a cold war, you discontinue projects and shutdown factories and repurpose your space agency only for low cost Unmanned missions, added scientists & engineers who built things like Saturn V & Gemini have retired/died became inexperienced, workshops and machines reconditioned or decommissioned.

This explains why it took US over 10 years to launch SLS in space after making up its mind despite the fact that it was having Saturn V back in 1969. They have to import engines and other components of even satellites from Asia & Russia.
Small related tidbit. I got to know from one friend who works in the SLS program - during the development of the Orion(their new crewed module), they had no idea what the reentry heat shield of a spacecraft coming back from the Moon should look like. They found their answer, morbidly, in the Apollo 1 CSM(for those who don't know, 3 astronauts in 1967 burned to death in Apollo 1 due to internal issues) heatshield, which was preserved, because that capsule did not go up into space.
 

Super falcon

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2021
Messages
870
Likes
806
Country flag
İndia Ka K series Ka SLBM ki range 1200 kyon nahi ha ha mujhe pata ha india ko zarorat nhi par ağar 8000 ki rakhni ha tü aik bar 12000 ki Rakh do 8000 bhi cover ho harfi

China 12000 range ki countries ki list ma sanık ho gaya ha slbm ki


Aur India sırf 2 arihant develop kar raha aur nukes subs kyon induct bhi kar raha India jesi badi navy ko 8 SLBM subs Ka Sath 6 SLCM ki bhi zarorat padegi

Chinese JL 3 SLBM

 

jai jaganath

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2022
Messages
5,975
Likes
10,472
Country flag
İndia Ka K series Ka SLBM ki range 1200 kyon nahi ha ha mujhe pata ha india ko zarorat nhi par ağar 8000 ki rakhni ha tü aik bar 12000 ki Rakh do 8000 bhi cover ho harfi

China 12000 range ki countries ki list ma sanık ho gaya ha slbm ki


Aur India sırf 2 arihant develop kar raha aur nukes subs kyon induct bhi kar raha India jesi badi navy ko 8 SLBM subs Ka Sath 6 SLCM ki bhi zarorat padegi

Chinese JL 3 SLBM

We have inducted 2 ssbn s4 is in fitting out stage and s4* is being made
S5 class' preparation has started I mean building few critucal parts and other stuffs
 

Fatalis

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2022
Messages
1,440
Likes
9,875
Country flag
The SLBM and SSBN development is going in parallel. They are incomplete without eachother. Having 7 SSBNs in near future will provide a big boost to our Second Stike Capability.

Note: Not all the boomers will be on patrol at a given time. So better to have multiple boomers. 4 by 2025 in which 2 are West centric and 2 are north centric.

IMO,
S2 and S3 will use K-4 replacing their B-05
S4 and S4* will use K-5
And when S5 comes, it will use K-6.

I do feel that by 2035-2040, S2 and S3 will be removed from SSBN role and assigned a role of SSGN.
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top