Indian nuclear submarines

Okabe Rintarou

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I just hoping that some new shipbuilders take place of small shipbuilders and in turn they grow , overall shipbuilding should grow .

Titagarh wagons are a new player can build Corvette easily
Not happening that easily. There is a conflict of interest involved there. Apparently Chairman of all these PSU shipyards also holds a position in procurement decisions in MoD. As a result, Government PSU shipyards will always get unfair advantage. Remember some retired Vice Admiral talking about this issue.
 

IndianHawk

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I just hoping that some new shipbuilders take place of small shipbuilders and in turn they grow , overall shipbuilding should grow .

Titagarh wagons are a new player can build Corvette easily
Shipyards are expanding. Most of them are undergoing expansion and upgradation.
That's why HSL signed deal with Turkish consortium so that it can learn European way of doing things . ( Which Turks themselves learner from Germans ).

MDL has capabilities to build submarines in parallel now but huge orders are needed to run construction full time in multiple shifts and multiple lines.

That's some time away given the budget.

Still shipyards need foreign orders and commercial orders to expands massively.

Korea Japan and China have all first dominated commercial ship building and then used that strength to ramp up naval ship building.
 
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Future, as of 2035ish
4 Arihant
3 S5
6 SSN
6 Kalvari
6 Project 75I
Total - Just 25 Submarines.

The existing fleet of Shishkumar and Sindughosh belong to the 1980s and will have completed 50 years of design life by the mid 2030s and will be retired.
Russian leases will also end by then and we do not know if there will be any fresh lease.
Follow on program for p75i is to build 12 indigenous ssk. They should also start induction in the early 2030s. By 2040 we should have 25+ 12 == 37 submarine at the very least.
As told before, it depends upon meeting schedules. We can even touch 50 submarines if run multiple conventional and submarine programs on rampage. But things often don't go the way we want, especially when we are doing experiments and not doing things we are expert at.
 

Lonewolf

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As told before, it depends upon meeting schedules. We can even touch 50 submarines if run multiple conventional and submarine programs on rampage. But things often don't go the way we want, especially when we are doing experiments and not doing things we are expert at.
What do you think about change in acquisition process , as modi at kevadiya reiterate that we need to leave legacy practices behind , is it something related to slow acquisition process , and if something like that is possible ,so what could be timeline for reforms in it .

Also when should we expect reform in forces doctrine of warfare , better equipment for soldiers , modernization and all
 

Abdus Salem killed

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What do you think about change in acquisition process , as modi at kevadiya reiterate that we need to leave legacy practices behind , is it something related to slow acquisition process , and if something like that is possible ,so what could be timeline for reforms in it .

Also when should we expect reform in forces doctrine of warfare , better equipment for soldiers , modernization and all
It does matter the time will remain high it takes time for a nuclear reactor to reach critical mass
 
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What do you think about change in acquisition process , as modi at kevadiya reiterate that we need to leave legacy practices behind , is it something related to slow acquisition process , and if something like that is possible ,so what could be timeline for reforms in it .
Nothing factors besides construction of more shipyards.
Also when should we expect reform in forces doctrine of warfare , better equipment for soldiers , modernization and all
Underway,
Equipment will gradually keep on improving with access to better tech.
 
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WolfPack86

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Eye on China, India’s plan for 6 nuclear-powered attack submarines back on track
On March 8, the Defence Research Development Organization (DRDO) successfully carried out the final test of the land based prototype of the Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system in Mumbai. The AIP system, retrofitted by expanding the hull area, ensures that diesel attack submarines can remain under surface for a longer period and become more silent than a nuclear-powered submarine. The AIP system will be retrofitted into Kalvari class submarines, the third of which (INS Karanj) will be commissioned on Wednesday March 10.

But analysts say that rather than being seen in isolation, Monday’s significant test should be seen as part of the navy’s overall capability-building plans, ranging from the ongoing plan to build six nuclear-powered attack submarines or SSNs – the project is back on track and was discussed at the Combined Commanders’ Conference in Kevadia, Gujarat -- to the commissioning of its second aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, later this year.

Overall, they add, the plans should also be seen as a concerted bid by the Indian Navy to counter the rise of China’s navy – now larger than the US navy in terms of number of ships, although the US is still ahead in terms of tonnage and capability. In submarines for instance, India currently has only one Akula class SSN on lease from Russia; one more is expected to come on lease before 2025.


The analysts said the Indian Navy is all set to acquire big teeth and long legs this year. While South Block remains tight-lipped about the country’s increasing naval capabilities, HT learns that the Chinese interlocutors during WMCC (working mechanism for consultation and coordination) meetings on disengagement in East Ladakh complained about Indian Navy warships being aggressive against the PLA Navy in the Indian Ocean. Thanks to Indian Navy full deployment in Indian Ocean and real time intelligence from the QUAD allies and France, the People’s Liberation Army Navy’s (PLAN) warships are only deployed around the Gulf of Aden as of now with no presence anywhere else in Indian Ocean.

India’s national security planners are worried about the expanding PLAN and expect Chinese carrier strike force deployment in Indian Ocean by 2023 with Beijing expected to commission a third aircraft carrier this year. That’s one reason the Indian Navy has embarked on its own capability-building drive. India will commission its second aircraft carrier INS Vikrant and second nuclear powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) INS Arighat this year. While INS Vikramaditya, the other carrier, will be home-based on the western seaboard of India, INS Vikrant will be on the eastern seaboard. Each will have one SSBN and SSN as part of its strike force.

Although the Indian Navy wants a third aircraft carrier with more tonnage than the two existing ones, the strategic planners of the Modi government are still to be convinced of the idea given the massive expenditure involved. The Vikramaditya’s tonnage is 45,000 and the Vikrant’s 37,500. There’s long been talk of a third carrier, INS Vishal, with a tonnage of 65,000, but this could set India back by at least $15 billion.

Adding teeth to the Indian Navy are also its two leased Predator drones, which provide maritime domain awareness from Gulf of Aden to Sunda Straits with the unmanned aerial platform having endurance upwards of 30 hours and acquiring attitude of over 30,000 feet. Once the Indian military is trained to handle the Predator drones, currently based in the Arakkonam base in Tamil Nadu, the plan is to buy 10 armed Predator drones for each of the three services.

Vice Admiral (Retd) Madanjit Singh, former Western Naval Command Chief, said that New Delhi should be cured of its sea-blindness as this is the war theatre of future. “The Modi government must expand to blue water navy status if PLAN’s expansion is to be checked.”
 

lcafanboy

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So enlarged scorpenes with nuclear reactor is on cards. Not bad at all. I say it's the best way to utilize the infrastructure made for scorpene subs. With all costs sinked in it will keep cost low and more importantly faster delivery. This is some bright thinking from defence ministry bamboos if true.....😊
 

Gessler

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Eye on China, India’s plan for 6 nuclear-powered attack submarines back on track
On March 8, the Defence Research Development Organization (DRDO) successfully carried out the final test of the land based prototype of the Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system in Mumbai. The AIP system, retrofitted by expanding the hull area, ensures that diesel attack submarines can remain under surface for a longer period and become more silent than a nuclear-powered submarine. The AIP system will be retrofitted into Kalvari class submarines, the third of which (INS Karanj) will be commissioned on Wednesday March 10.

But analysts say that rather than being seen in isolation, Monday’s significant test should be seen as part of the navy’s overall capability-building plans, ranging from the ongoing plan to build six nuclear-powered attack submarines or SSNs – the project is back on track and was discussed at the Combined Commanders’ Conference in Kevadia, Gujarat -- to the commissioning of its second aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, later this year.

Overall, they add, the plans should also be seen as a concerted bid by the Indian Navy to counter the rise of China’s navy – now larger than the US navy in terms of number of ships, although the US is still ahead in terms of tonnage and capability. In submarines for instance, India currently has only one Akula class SSN on lease from Russia; one more is expected to come on lease before 2025.


The analysts said the Indian Navy is all set to acquire big teeth and long legs this year. While South Block remains tight-lipped about the country’s increasing naval capabilities, HT learns that the Chinese interlocutors during WMCC (working mechanism for consultation and coordination) meetings on disengagement in East Ladakh complained about Indian Navy warships being aggressive against the PLA Navy in the Indian Ocean. Thanks to Indian Navy full deployment in Indian Ocean and real time intelligence from the QUAD allies and France, the People’s Liberation Army Navy’s (PLAN) warships are only deployed around the Gulf of Aden as of now with no presence anywhere else in Indian Ocean.

India’s national security planners are worried about the expanding PLAN and expect Chinese carrier strike force deployment in Indian Ocean by 2023 with Beijing expected to commission a third aircraft carrier this year. That’s one reason the Indian Navy has embarked on its own capability-building drive. India will commission its second aircraft carrier INS Vikrant and second nuclear powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) INS Arighat this year. While INS Vikramaditya, the other carrier, will be home-based on the western seaboard of India, INS Vikrant will be on the eastern seaboard. Each will have one SSBN and SSN as part of its strike force.

Although the Indian Navy wants a third aircraft carrier with more tonnage than the two existing ones, the strategic planners of the Modi government are still to be convinced of the idea given the massive expenditure involved. The Vikramaditya’s tonnage is 45,000 and the Vikrant’s 37,500. There’s long been talk of a third carrier, INS Vishal, with a tonnage of 65,000, but this could set India back by at least $15 billion.

Adding teeth to the Indian Navy are also its two leased Predator drones, which provide maritime domain awareness from Gulf of Aden to Sunda Straits with the unmanned aerial platform having endurance upwards of 30 hours and acquiring attitude of over 30,000 feet. Once the Indian military is trained to handle the Predator drones, currently based in the Arakkonam base in Tamil Nadu, the plan is to buy 10 armed Predator drones for each of the three services.

Vice Admiral (Retd) Madanjit Singh, former Western Naval Command Chief, said that New Delhi should be cured of its sea-blindness as this is the war theatre of future. “The Modi government must expand to blue water navy status if PLAN’s expansion is to be checked.”
I think much good has come of the recently-concluded Combined Commanders' Conference (and preceding that, CDS's insistence) wrt the Navy's prioritization dilemma.

Directing you all to my post last year on the topic:

 

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Revealed: China’s New Super Submarine Dwarfs Typhoon Class


From carriers to Nuke subs. China is building everything larger.
 

HitmanBlood

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Revealed: China’s New Super Submarine Dwarfs Typhoon Class


From carriers to Nuke subs. China is building everything larger.
I think this is an April fool's joke.
 
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Revealed: China’s New Super Submarine Dwarfs Typhoon Class


From carriers to Nuke subs. China is building everything larger.
What is this pls explain
Read the last line of the article.

There is nothing called Chinese Type 100 in existence.
 

WolfPack86

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India Wants More Nuclear Submarines and Less Aircraft Carriers
In March 2021, the Times of India reported that the Indian Navy had announced its intent to prioritize the development and construction of a force of six nuclear-powered attack submarines, or SSNs, ahead of building a third, larger aircraft carrier. The initial order of three submarines could begin entering service in 2032.

The SSN program, estimated optimistically to cost $12 billion ($2 billion per submarine), could affect the balance of power in the Indian Ocean as India seeks to offset the growing presence and capability of China’s rapidly expanding navy.

Indian Submarine Strategy and China

In the last two decades, the PLA Navy has secured access to bases in the Indian Ocean to the west and east of India, and periodically dispatches warships and submarines to patrol those waters. Long-running tensions between China and India meanwhile have mounted, culminating in June 2020 in a deadly clash on the Himalayan border in which dozens of soldiers were killed.

New Delhi’s decision to focus on submarines concludes a year-long debate between senior leaders of the Indian Navy and Chief of Defense Staff Bipin Rawat. Both projects have been on the Navy’s slate for decades, but progress has been slow.

Rawat favored submarines over carriers because the latter make for large and indiscrete targets, and China has developed a wide variety of long-range air, sea- and land-based missiles to attack carriers.

Attack submarines, by contrast, are ideal for navies facing numerically superior adversaries because underwater stealth allows them to (mostly) pick their battles, pouncing upon vulnerable merchant convoys or unsuspecting warships.

Furthermore, even a relatively small submarine force can compel an adversary to devote enormous resources to systematically escorting merchant convoys and valuable warships, lest they sustain insupportable losses.

Those costs were so high that in World War I and II, the United Kingdom and U.S. Navy both initially thought it was better to let convoys go unescorted, only for shipping losses to German U-Boats to rise so catastrophically high that they were forced to backtrack—even if that meant throttling down the pace of shipping overall.

Nuclear Power Under the Indian Ocean

India is on its second lease of a nuclear-powered Akula-class attack submarine from Russia, and in 2019 signed a $3 billion deal for a third lease to begin in 2025.

Russian assistance also played a major role in India’s development of an indigenous nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN), the Arihant, giving India an underwater sea-based nuclear deterrence capability. Three progressively improved submarines based on the Arihant are in the pipeline, with one—the Arighat—due for commissioning this year. These will be followed by a new, larger class of four SSBNs dubbed the S5.

Nuclear propulsion allows submarines to remain underwater essentially indefinitely and traverse long distances without having to expose themselves by surfacing or snorkeling to sip air needed to recharge their batteries.

That allows an SSBN to creep slowly underwater with maximum stealth on patrols that may last two or three months, ready at any moment to respond to orders transmitted by high-frequency radio to unleash a barrage of nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles.

An attack submarine, however, is principally designed for hunting down ships and other submarines. For that role, agility is essential for intercepting vulnerable enemy ships, out-maneuvering underwater foes, and diving deep to evade anti-submarine forces. Here, nuclear propulsion can enable much higher sustained underwater speeds of 20 to 30 knots.

Indeed, India has reportedly been researching higher-strength hull materials that will allow its future SSNs to dive deeper and travel at higher speeds. However, the greatest technical challenge may stem from the submarine’s reactor.

Reportedly, there has been some debate over whether to use the 83-megawatt compact light water reactor developed for the Arihant, as some officers argue that the speed and acceleration needed for an SSN requires a more powerful 190 MW reactor like that used on the Akula-class.

While an SSN’s ability to remain underwater indefinitely is intrinsically stealthy, some nuclear submarines—like Chinese and early Soviet designs—are notably noisier than the Akula or the U.S. Virginia-class. That makes them easier to detect and destroy, and harder for their crew to detect other submarines with their hydrophones.

Thus, the level of acoustic stealth India achieves with its SSN will determine how well they match qualitatively with China’s current submarine fleet.

India’s Nuclear Submarine Strategy

Realistically, many of the Indian Navy’s submarine needs in the Arabian Sea and Bay of Bengal can be fulfilled by shorter-range AIP- or lithium-ion battery-powered submarines built at a fraction of the price.

However, an Indian SSN fleet would remain uniquely qualified for several offensive and defensive missions.

One classic SSN mission is escorting SSBNs deploying to station, as opposing submarines often attempt to trail behind them while leaving port. An SSN can “keep up” with the SSBNs during that vulnerable phase, and is better suited to dueling with hostile submarines. India is expected to pursue a Soviet-style bastion strategy, in which the SSBNs lurk in nearby waters well screened by friendly aerial, surface, and underwater anti-submarine platforms.

Nuclear-powered submarines would also make good escorts for India’s two aircraft carriers due to having the speed to keep up!

The Indian Navy may also seek to leverage the greater range and endurance of SSNs by deploying them to interdict the few choke points by which Chinese warships can efficiently access the Indian Ocean, notably the Straits of Malacca (at the intersection of Malaysia, Sumatra and Singapore) and the Sunda Strait (between Sumatra and Java.) Admittedly, AIP submarines have the range for this mission, though SSNs could remain on station longer with less exposure.

However, India could also dispatch SSNs through the straits into the Pacific, just as Chinese submarines are patrolling the Indian Ocean. In wartime, just one or two submarines in the Pacific could force the PLA Navy to devote expensive assets to protecting their “backfield,” instead of treating the Pacific as a safe area where shipping can safely go unescorted.

Indeed, an earlier article by the authors looks at a report by the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessment suggesting using SSNs in this manner.

Meanwhile, in peacetime, the Indian Navy could use submarines for intelligence-gathering missions in the Pacific.

Finally, SSNs could be used as long-range platforms for delivery of naval special forces and conventional (ie. non-nuclear) land-attack missiles, using say an underwater-launch variant of the 930-mile range Nirbhay-cruise missile. An attack submarine can only deliver a small-scale missile barrage, but such strikes can sometimes have an outsized political/psychological impact.

The French Connection

The Times also notes that New Delhi prefers to partner with France on the new SSNs. Indeed, discussions of a nuclear submarine partnership date back several years.

While Russia has traditionally assisted India’s nuclear-powered submarine programs, currently arms sales from Russia could potentially be subject to sanctions from the United States. Meanwhile, purchases from the United States are subject to difficult ITAR regulatory burdens. A French partnership thus bypasses these potential pitfalls.

Moreover, India is currently completing the last of six Kalvari-class AIP submarines derived from the French Scorpene-class submarine offered by Naval Group. That means India could build on an existing partnership with a company that is also building France’s hi-tech Suffren-class SSN.

Finally, while India’s growing military relationship with the U.S. Navy in the Indian Ocean is well known, France also has a substantial presence in the Indian Ocean based on the islands of Reunion and Mayotte, making it an attractive strategic partner.
 

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