Indian nuclear submarines

[abingdonboy]

Very quiet around here after a period of lots of attention......

 

[Armand2REP]

Very quiet around here after a period of lots of attention......

Nobody is really in the mood to talk about it after they left the hatch open to flood the engine room on Arihant. Then the Chakra ran aground. I can't say I am surprised no one has much to say.

 

[Kalki_2018]

Nobody will say anything about chakra, arihant arighat or any other nuke sub. They are not meant to be flaunted openly. All the rumours are simply unsubstantiated rubbish like pakis having more nukes than India. That one still cracks me up.

 

[abingdonboy]

Nobody is really in the mood to talk about it after they left the hatch open to flood the engine room on Arihant. Then the Chakra ran aground. I can't say I am surprised no one has much to say.

1) “hatchgate” has been thoroughly debunked. Nothing of the kind happened, something definetly did cause Arihant to be in dock for 10+ months but it wasn’t for that reason, can only assume a heavy dose of misinformation is going on here
2) chakra didn’t run aground, the sonar dome was supposedly damaged whilst navigating harbour but again I would take this with a truckload of salt.

 

[sayareakd]

Well our assambly line is getting streamlined. More subs at faster rate, bigger and better in the making.

 

[AnantS]

1) “hatchgate” has been thoroughly debunked. Nothing of the kind happened, something definetly did cause Arihant to be in dock for 10+ months but it wasn’t for that reason, can only assume a heavy dose of misinformation is going on here
2) chakra didn’t run aground, the sonar dome was supposedly damaged whilst navigating harbour but again I would take this with a truckload of salt.

I strongly feel this misinfo was spread to mask new subs in the dock. The damaged "Arihant" seen by the satellite could very well be new Arighat/Aridaman

 

[Jameson Emoni]

I strongly feel this misinfo was spread to mask new subs in the dock. The damaged "Arihant" seen by the satellite could very well be new Arighat/Aridaman

It was announced at the launch of Arighat that two more SSBNs would follow soon. They were temporarily called S4 and S4*.

---

India quietly launches second SSBN

Indian Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman presided over the launch of the second indigenously designed Arihant-class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) on order for the Indian Navy (IN) on 19 November.

Official sources told Jane’s that the launch of Arighat , which took place during a low-key ceremony held at the Ship Building Centre (SBC) at Visakhapatnam, entailed flooding the dry dock housing the SSBN to enable it to float into the surrounding waters for additional fitment ahead of its commissioning in 2020-21.

Arighat will be succeeded in the dry dock by two similar SSBNs that have been temporarily designated S4 and S4*.

http://www.janes.com/article/76315/india-quietly-launches-second-ssbn

 

[Armand2REP]

1) “hatchgate” has been thoroughly debunked. Nothing of the kind happened, something definetly did cause Arihant to be in dock for 10+ months but it wasn’t for that reason, can only assume a heavy dose of misinformation is going on here
2) chakra didn’t run aground, the sonar dome was supposedly damaged whilst navigating harbour but again I would take this with a truckload of salt.

I only know what has been reported. The only two nuke subs in the fleet met with preventable accidents costing tens of millions in damage and major down times for both.

I strongly feel this misinfo was spread to mask new subs in the dock. The damaged "Arihant" seen by the satellite could very well be new Arighat/Aridaman

Why would the existence of a nuke sub be a secret? We know well how many France, USA, Russia even China has. You would think it would be a thing of national pride.

 

[Jameson Emoni]

I only know what has been reported. The only two nuke subs in the fleet met with preventable accidents costing tens of millions in damage and major down times for both.



Why would the existence of a nuke sub be a secret? We know well how many France, USA, Russia even China has. You would think it would be a thing of national pride.

Weapons are built for self defense not pride. It is better to appear weaker than you are, it fosters complacency in your enemies.

I am not saying this happens to be the case here but it will not be a bad strategy if it were the case.

 

[Kshithij]

I only know what has been reported. The only two nuke subs in the fleet met with preventable accidents costing tens of millions in damage and major down times for both.



Why would the existence of a nuke sub be a secret? We know well how many France, USA, Russia even China has. You would think it would be a thing of national pride.

India does not want to create a situation of deterrence by fear. India wants permanent results by action. Defence is not about pride but about necessity

 

[Anikastha]

1) “hatchgate” has been thoroughly debunked. Nothing of the kind happened, something definetly did cause Arihant to be in dock for 10+ months but it wasn’t for that reason, can only assume a heavy dose of misinformation is going on here

I have a car worth 9 lakhs. It gives beep sound whenever driver fails to put on seat belt or door is not closed properly.
Only a fool will think that such instrument isn't installed on a toy which is even more costlier than my 9lakhs vehicle. Seriously ? People don't know about something called Standard operation procedure ?
Before going to second step sailors check and verify many parameters and then captain /CO gives command to carry out next step.
And sailors on this nuke dolphins are best of the best submariners navy could get. Its not a auto-rikshaw in which driver can do or go anywhere he want , even stop suddenly in middle of the road.
How come people miss this simple logic ?

 

[lcafanboy]

Nobody is really in the mood to talk about it after they left the hatch open to flood the engine room on Arihant. Then the Chakra ran aground. I can't say I am surprised no one has much to say.

You really think it's real. Nuclear submarines are BLACK project, no one knows anything about it, only speculation and misinformation by govt of India.

The said money could very well be for transferring to Russia for more technology or second of akula class submarines irbis or kashalot for which negotiation were in progress. So may be we are having more akulas than declared.....

We paid for chakra in Vikramaditya deal and now we could have paid in name of repairs... Keep guessing....

 

[Jameson Emoni]

You really think it's real. Nuclear submarines are BLACK project, no one knows anything about it, only speculation and misinformation by govt of India.

The said money could very well be for transferring to Russia for more technology or second of akula class submarines irbis or kashalot for which negotiation were in progress. So may be we are having more akulas than declared.....

We paid for chakra in Vikramaditya deal and now we could have paid in name of repairs... Keep guessing....

Yep, submarines after all are surprise weapons.

 

[Kshithij]

You really think it's real. Nuclear submarines are BLACK project, no one knows anything about it, only speculation and misinformation by govt of India.

The said money could very well be for transferring to Russia for more technology or second of akula class submarines irbis or kashalot for which negotiation were in progress. So may be we are having more akulas than declared.....

We paid for chakra in Vikramaditya deal and now we could have paid in name of repairs... Keep guessing....

The problem with leased submarines is that they can't be used in war but only patrolling. There is no point leasing more submarines from Russia when India can make its own and also has gained enough experience in Russian submarines already

 

[Armand2REP]

Weapons are built for self defense not pride. It is better to appear weaker than you are, it fosters complacency in your enemies.

I am not saying this happens to be the case here but it will not be a bad strategy if it were the case.

It is not better to appear weaker than you are. It is the show of strength that prevents wars, it is weakness that starts them. I doubt GoI has the goal of appearing weak especially with China as a neighbour with designs on your territory.

 

[AnantS]

Why would the existence of a nuke sub be a secret? We know well how many France, USA, Russia even China has. You would think it would be a thing of national pride.

Misinformation is regularly spread to generally mask actual position of submarine - and every nation be it - France, China, USA or Russia would generally love to hide actual position of their submarines on prowl. Pride only comes with sufficient numbers. Since SSBN program is still in its infancy, it needs protection. And spreading misinformation about its assets(point in case INS Vikrant in 71) is not new to Navy. Or even DRDO, who used to test new missile systems under garb of Prithvi missile tests. Now when India has achieved sufficent confidence in its missile capabilities you dont see India masking its new missile tests any more.
You will see the same when we SSN/SSBN program achieves sufficient maturity.

 

[Kshithij]

It is not better to appear weaker than you are. It is the show of strength that prevents wars, it is weakness that starts them. I doubt GoI has the goal of appearing weak especially with China as a neighbour with designs on your territory.

The point here is that India is suffering everyday and wants war to end the problems permanently rather than avoid war. Wars are avoided only when the side is in a dominant position and has everything in the way he wants, not when the side has lot of problems and regular irritation.

 

[Armand2REP]

Misinformation is regularly spread to generally mask actual position of submarine - and every nation be it - France, China, USA or Russia would generally love to hide actual position of their submarines on prowl. Pride only comes with sufficient numbers. Since SSBN program is still in its infancy, it needs protection. And spreading misinformation about its assets(point in case INS Vikrant in 71) is not new to Navy. Or even DRDO, who used to test new missile systems under garb of Prithvi missile tests. Now when India has achieved sufficent confidence in its missile capabilities you dont see India masking its new missile tests any more.
You will see the same when we SSN/SSBN program achieves sufficient maturity.

Unless you have submarine pens there isn't much to hide as any observation sat can see. On Ile Longue we have two pens for four SNLE so it is hard to guess who is where doing what. Phase II of Project Varsa is finally underway and India can have a secret nuke base, but not really so secret. The good thing about our base on Ile Longue is it is far out on a narrow peninsula that is easy to keep people off of. The Varsa base is going up in the middle of a forest with all kinds of access points will be hard to keep prying eyes out of it. The underground base on Hainan is the best for concealing sub movements, but it is expensive. There is not much you can do outside of that for secrecy.

 

[Armand2REP]

You really think it's real. Nuclear submarines are BLACK project, no one knows anything about it, only speculation and misinformation by govt of India.

The said money could very well be for transferring to Russia for more technology or second of akula class submarines irbis or kashalot for which negotiation were in progress. So may be we are having more akulas than declared.....

We paid for chakra in Vikramaditya deal and now we could have paid in name of repairs... Keep guessing....

All it takes is one underpaid sailor to spill the beans. The people that work their know and I doubt they are getting paid Western wages, flash some cash and someone will talk. Indian media is not the most careful when it comes to guarding national secrets. The source may even come from some corrupt babu that knows. Let us not pretend like India is free of corruption. The one thing I doubt is that it is intentional misinformation to make India look weak.

 

[AnantS]

Unless you have submarine pens there isn't much to hide as any observation sat can see. On Ile Longue we have two pens for four SNLE so it is hard to guess who is where doing what. Phase II of Project Varsa is finally underway and India can have a secret nuke base, but not really so secret. The good thing about our base on Ile Longue is it is far out on a narrow peninsula that is easy to keep people off of. The Varsa base is going up in the middle of a forest with all kinds of access points will be hard to keep prying eyes out of it. The underground base on Hainan is the best for concealing sub movements, but it is expensive. There is not much you can do outside of that for secrecy.

Exactly there are no pens right now.. The satellites see an Arihant like silhouette anchored outside, coupled with well published news tyat Arihant met an accident.. what would you naturally infer?
Now how does satellite know its Arihant and not its clone sister Arighat - while Arihant is sailing elsewhere? India has very well published its roadmap, which tells about its capability intent to its adversaries.