Indian nuclear submarines

[Kunal Biswas]

The arihant was not a true SSBN but a hybrid ..

The Aridhaman is true SSBN ..

 

[tharun]

Ok, sorry. But why lease akula when we can make Arihant class submarine? The cost of Arihant is lower and we will have ownership too. Nuclear submarine lasts over 40 years. Why lease in such case?

Leasing akula is to boost the SSN capability in Indian ocean.
Arihant is a hybrid one it can be used as SSN and SSBN.

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[tharun]

One question - Why does India want to lease Akula submarine when India is already building Arihant class submarine indigenously? As far as I see, Arihant = Akula made in India. (Akula was reverse engineered to get Arihant).

Thanks in advance

If you know how to reply in this forum I'm assuming you also know how to use Google and Wikipedia.

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[Kshithij]

If you know how to reply in this forum I'm assuming you also know how to use Google and Wikipedia.

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Yeah, that means there is no use of this forum at all, right? Google doesn't answer questions. It simply references someone who has already answered the question

My question was genuine as 2 billion dollars for Akula is simply unacceptable cost while India can make its own submarine. It is not a big deal to make SSN if we can make SSBN. Especially for a cost of 2 billion, India can make own SSN which will last 40 years instead of leasing Akula for 10 years by paying 2 billion dollars.

 

[tharun]

2 billion dollars for Akula is simply unacceptable cost

Name a country which leases you a nuclear submarine and gives technical know-how to build a nuclear submarine.

while India can make its own submarine

"Can" We made only one sub that too a technology demonstrator.We are still behind the current technology.

It is not a big deal to make SSN if we can make SSBN

It's a big deal buddy both submarines are different in terms of mobility,maneuverability.

Especially for a cost of 2 billion, India can make own SSN which will last 40 years instead of leasing Akula for 10 years by paying 2 billion dollars.

Refer to first answer.

 

[Kranthi]

Yeah, that means there is no use of this forum at all, right? Google doesn't answer questions. It simply references someone who has already answered the question

My question was genuine as 2 billion dollars for Akula is simply unacceptable cost while India can make its own submarine. It is not a big deal to make SSN if we can make SSBN. Especially for a cost of 2 billion, India can make own SSN which will last 40 years instead of leasing Akula for 10 years by paying 2 billion dollars.

You are correct to some extent that yes we can make an SSN with the capability we have now. But how good an SSN we can make is the question.

SSBN and SSN are completely different in their capacities and capabilities. SSN requires more complex technologies. The reason being, SSBN's role is always risk aversive. It simply need to stay away from its enemies as it's role is just to survive for a second strike.

SSN on the other hand has completely different responsibilities. These are supposed to go out there, play with danger, trail enemy ships/ subs, hunt them, escape when detected, loose trailing subs/ ships/ anti-sub aircraft, patrol huge areas of assignment. SSNs role is not risk aversion. It is not supposed to hide when the enemy is out there but go fight them, unlike the SSBN which should hide if it detects an enemy.

What this means is SSN needs more silent movement, more speed, more stealth, more anti ship/ anti sub weaponry etc. Which inturn means need for bigger reactor, better noise suppression, better propellers, more complex stealth tech etc

Also we need experience on operating a nuclear hunter sub. What speeds they can do, how to trail enemies without being detected, how to run if detected. We can't do this with our SSKs as they simply don't have the submerged speed and range. We can't use an SSBN for this purpose. Above all we need an SSN until we build our own, and we need a reference for designing our own.

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[sayareakd]

SSBN is national asset, while SSN is Navy's asset.
We are about to start making one. Just have SSN does not matter, as above poster rightly said, it needs speed and stealth. We want one of the best. Chakra will help us in that. Can't say more. But we are getting their. Russian tech will help us bridge gap of decades in few years.
That money can't buy.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Published on May 10, 2016

 

[Kshithij]

Name a country which leases you a nuclear submarine and gives technical know-how to build a nuclear submarine.

"Can" We made only one sub that too a technology demonstrator.We are still behind the current technology.

It's a big deal buddy both submarines are different in terms of mobility,maneuverability.

Refer to first answer.

You are correct to some extent that yes we can make an SSN with the capability we have now. But how good an SSN we can make is the question.

SSBN and SSN are completely different in their capacities and capabilities. SSN requires more complex technologies. The reason being, SSBN's role is always risk aversive. It simply need to stay away from its enemies as it's role is just to survive for a second strike.

SSN on the other hand has completely different responsibilities. These are supposed to go out there, play with danger, trail enemy ships/ subs, hunt them, escape when detected, loose trailing subs/ ships/ anti-sub aircraft, patrol huge areas of assignment. SSNs role is not risk aversion. It is not supposed to hide when the enemy is out there but go fight them, unlike the SSBN which should hide if it detects an enemy.

What this means is SSN needs more silent movement, more speed, more stealth, more anti ship/ anti sub weaponry etc. Which inturn means need for bigger reactor, better noise suppression, better propellers, more complex stealth tech etc

Also we need experience on operating a nuclear hunter sub. What speeds they can do, how to trail enemies without being detected, how to run if detected. We can't do this with our SSKs as they simply don't have the submerged speed and range. We can't use an SSBN for this purpose. Above all we need an SSN until we build our own, and we need a reference for designing our own.

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SSBN is national asset, while SSN is Navy's asset.
We are about to start making one. Just have SSN does not matter, as above poster rightly said, it needs speed and stealth. We want one of the best. Chakra will help us in that. Can't say more. But we are getting their. Russian tech will help us bridge gap of decades in few years.
That money can't buy.

So, Russia is giving technology Transfer too? I thought there was a clause that a Russian officer must be present when the submarine is docked to ensure that India does not get the chance to reverse engineer by opening it open. This was mentioned by a previous commenter on this forum. This is also a reason why Russia leases submarine and not sells it

PS - I think this is the reason why CHAKRA got 'accidentally damaged'.

 

[sum1]

Why do you think the proposal for next SSN lease includes Indian officials "studying" and understanding the process of refurbishment of the sub onsite at Russia?

We all can guess what they will actually study

 

[tharun]

So, Russia is giving technology Transfer too?

No technology transfer just help...

I thought there was a clause that a Russian officer must be present when the submarine is docked to ensure that India does not get the chance to reverse engineer by opening it open.

Never heard of name sake rules.The russians were on the sub to assist our guys since our guys have less experience in handling nuclear reactor on a sub.

This was mentioned by a previous commenter on this forum. This is also a reason why Russia leases submarine and not sells it

No one in the world sells the nuclear sub.Answer in the below pic and thing why indians are good at finding loopholes

 

[sayareakd]

PS - I think this is the reason why CHAKRA got 'accidentally damaged'.

No need to talk about that, let others think what ever they want to, only hint is that it will be repaired here.....:biggrin2:

 

[NeXoft007]

Waiting for K5 SLBM test on 2019. A new pontoon has to be made first for ejection and test launches of K5 as the K5 SLBM is completely incompatible with K4 SLBM silo (2.3m vs. 1.3m diameter). The main focus of K5 SLBM will be its heavy throwweight of 3 tons atleast with M-MaRVs capability.

 

[Steven Rogers]

You are correct to some extent that yes we can make an SSN with the capability we have now. But how good an SSN we can make is the question.

SSBN and SSN are completely different in their capacities and capabilities. SSN requires more complex technologies. The reason being, SSBN's role is always risk aversive. It simply need to stay away from its enemies as it's role is just to survive for a second strike.

SSN on the other hand has completely different responsibilities. These are supposed to go out there, play with danger, trail enemy ships/ subs, hunt them, escape when detected, loose trailing subs/ ships/ anti-sub aircraft, patrol huge areas of assignment. SSNs role is not risk aversion. It is not supposed to hide when the enemy is out there but go fight them, unlike the SSBN which should hide if it detects an enemy.

What this means is SSN needs more silent movement, more speed, more stealth, more anti ship/ anti sub weaponry etc. Which inturn means need for bigger reactor, better noise suppression, better propellers, more complex stealth tech etc

Also we need experience on operating a nuclear hunter sub. What speeds they can do, how to trail enemies without being detected, how to run if detected. We can't do this with our SSKs as they simply don't have the submerged speed and range. We can't use an SSBN for this purpose. Above all we need an SSN until we build our own, and we need a reference for designing our own.

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As far as my knowledge. SSBN are more tough to master than SSN, we are the only country to master SSBN before SSN, also we have a series of ssk coming which are made in India(at least 47 percent). Don't see a problem in SSN, though the help can be taken from the outside.

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[VIP]

Operationally what's the difference between conventional SSK and SSN? Except fuel supply and stealth??

 

[Steven Rogers]

Operationally what's the difference between SSK and SSN? Except fuel supply and stealth??

If asking on my statement, I made that for skill and workforce we developed through SSK... sensors are the big differences, SSN has endurance and power to work for months(depending on crew), while ssk largest voyage is 2800kms and 18 days.

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[VIP]

If asking on my statement, I made that for skill and workforce we developed through SSK... sensors are the big differences, SSN has endurance and power to work for months(depending on crew), while ssk largest voyage is 2800kms and 18 days.

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I asked based on your statement annd general understanding as differences are not clearly mentioned anywhere, may be I'm searching it wrong.

 

[VIP]

If killer part of both conventional and SSN are same, we could make one indeginously as we already have expertise of nuclear powered core,no?

 

[Chinmoy]

If killer part of both conventional and SSN are same, we could make one indeginously as we already have expertise of nuclear powered core,no?

SSN are best for laying ambush due to its ability to remain submerged for a longer period of time.
SSK on other hand are best for active patrolling.
On stealth part, when submerged, SSK is far better then any SSN. But at all other time with prying eyes on you, SSN is best for stealth.

 

[VIP]

SSN are best for laying ambush due to its ability to remain submerged for a longer period of time.
SSK on other hand are best for active patrolling.
On stealth part, when submerged, SSK is far better then any SSN. But at all other time with prying eyes on you, SSN is best for stealth.

So hunting tech is same for both........ So, we could build SSN indigenously I guess, no ??