Indian Navy MiG 29K

[Trololo]

A through Z of everything related to the MiG 29K with special focus on the Indian Navy's fleet of the same.

 

[Trololo]

Wiki page link to the MiG 29K: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-29K

 

[Trololo]

 

[Trololo]

Forum members @Haldilal @Kuntal @Bleh @fire starter let's start contributing here.

 

[Bleh]

“It is being planned to deploy the MiG-29K fighter aircraft at an Indian Air Force base in the northern sector. They might be used for carrying out operational flying in the Eastern Ladakh sector along the Line of Actual Control (LAC),” government sources told ANI.

22-Jul-2020

Navy's gonna get rid of them as soon as possible.. IAF may take over the fleet. The jets are relatively new & operated from land, can serve like any other Mig-29 until 2050.

 

[Ghost hale]

Not sure how it will workout by 2035. Fleet strength for 2 aircraft carriers + possibly a third by 2035 won't be possible with 41 aircrafts with less than 50% availability.

No Plans to lease Rafale M, Committed to TEDBF: Naval Source – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Navy's gonna get rid of them as soon as possible.. IAF may take over the fleet. The jets are relatively new & operated from land, can serve like any other Mig-29 until 2050.

R u sure on 2050? Article I shared and others i read seems to point more at 2035-40 retirement.

 

[Bleh]

R u sure on 2050? Article I shared and others i read seems to point more at 2035-40 retirement.

Out older fulcrums are from the '80-90s. The MiG-29Ks were recieved post 2010 (thus 2050 approx.)

There is nothing in inherentlynwrong with the jets, all of them are UPG standard. But like any other Russian Naval aircraft they simply can't takeoff carriers with anything more than few AAMs... As we are trying to drift from that air-defence-missile-attack doctrine, IN have need for specialised TEDBF. But IAF can make good use of them for another 2-3 decades.

 

[Ghost hale]

Out older fulcrums are from the '80-90s. The MiG-29Ks were recieved post 2010 (thus 2050 approx.)

There is nothing in inherentlynwrong with the jets, all of them are UPG standard. But like any other Russian Naval aircraft they simply can't takeoff carriers with anything more than few AAMs... As we are trying to drift from that air-defence-missile-attack doctrine, IN have need for specialised TEDBF. But IAF can make good use of them for another 2-3 decades.

Seems reasonable. Are Mig 29K upgraded even? I m not sure. I think only IAF ones were upgraded. Secondly count is very low for 2 ACs with availability in mind. And if third comes up than its a disaster.

 

[Bleh]

Seems reasonable. Are Mig 29K upgraded even? I m not sure. I think only IAF ones were upgraded.

They came in UPG/SMT standard.. The platforms are, like, really new.

Secondly count is very low for 2 ACs with availability in mind. And if third comes up than its a disaster.

We'll need about 60 TEDBF minimum. 70-75 would be a satisfactory number. 100 would be decent... So these guys have room to fill until then.

Dont expect another carrier before 2045 tho. Right now there are no plans for it, indefiniteltpy delayed. Even if Navy manages to lobby & may have fund release by 25, then design-developmentnetc. Keel can't be played before 2030, no chance of operationalisation before 2045 (2040 best case scenario)

 

[Vamsi]

MiG-29K with two 88 KN engines can carry only few AAMs, then how can Rafale-M with just 75KN engines can takeoff from our carriers with enough weapons? It won't be suitable for our carriers right?

 

[Bleh]

MiG-29K with two 88 KN engines can carry only few AAMs, then how can Rafale-M with just 75KN engines can takeoff from our carriers with enough weapons? It won't be suitable for our carriers right?

Wing area, canards, slow speed nose authority, AoA etc. stuff matters too... RafaleM may not be about to do much either but, with twin-F414 TEDBF should. It's completely tailor-made for skyjump ops. Won't even have have serpentine intakes to becauses maximize engine thrust output.

 

[Ghost hale]

They came in UPG/SMT standard.. The platforms are, like, really new.

Can u give any source to read about it. I didn't find it anywhere. It is not atleast UPG for sure as hump is missing in 29Ks.

We'll need about 60 TEDBF minimum. 70-75 would be a satisfactory number. 100 would be decent... So these guys have room to fill until then.

Bare minimum 54 which is expected currently will take atleast 2036-37 to be inducted. Not sure how they will manage 2 ACs by then with only 20 jets(availability).

Dont expect another carrier before 2045 tho. Right now there are no plans for it, indefiniteltpy delayed. Even if Navy manages to lobby & may have fund release by 25, then design-developmentnetc. Keel can't be played before 2030, no chance of operationalisation before 2045 (2040 best case scenario)

It will be inducted by or before 2040 or before. Just opinion so ignore.

 

[Ghost hale]

MiG-29K with two 88 KN engines can carry only few AAMs, then how can Rafale-M with just 75KN engines can takeoff from our carriers with enough weapons? It won't be suitable for our carriers right?

Take off with less fuel and high armaments and then air refuel.

 

[Bleh]

Take off with less fuel and high armaments and then air refuel.

Oh I heard them do that.. Super complicated.

Can u give any source to read about it. I didn't find it anywhere. It is not atleast UPG for sure as hump is missing in 29Ks.

Tech-wise... I can't find the exact soirce that starts that are at par ( these two has some). They weren't upgraded seperately, so can't marry look for news headlines.

Take-off Magazine : MiG-29UPG upgrade programme goes on

- RAC MiG

 

[Ghost hale]

Oh I heard them do that.. Super complicated.

Complicated??? Its common practice right?

Tech-wise... I can't find the exact soirce that starts that are at par ( these two has some). They weren't upgraded seperately, so can't marry look for news headlines.

Take-off Magazine : MiG-29UPG upgrade programme goes on

- RAC MiG

Doesn't give specifics. Possible avionics might have been updated. Fuel capacity of 29Ks is already higher to 29s, so maybe they avoided hump. Can't confirm.

 

[Bleh]

Complicated??? Its common practice right?

Doesn't give specifics. Possible avionics might have been updated. Fuel capacity of 29Ks is already higher to 29s, so maybe they avoided hump. Can't confirm.

Not for catapult jets.. But yeah it's common practice for us. Ruskies & Chinks don't bother.

Awr baki aap chronology dekhiye. Last of these things came in 2017, that's after the whole IAF fleet upgradation.. Unlikely that IN would accept older version.

 

[Ghost hale]

Not for catapult jets.. But yeah it's common practice for us. Ruskies & Chinks don't bother.

In Catobars, its not needed anyhow.

Awr baki aap chronology dekhiye. Last of these things came in 2017, that's after the whole IAF fleet upgradation.. Unlikely that IN would accept older version.

This makes a lot of sense.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Not for catapult jets.. But yeah it's common practice for us. Ruskies & Chinks don't bother.

Awr baki aap chronology dekhiye. Last of these things came in 2017, that's after the whole IAF fleet upgradation.. Unlikely that IN would accept older version.

For us air to air refuelling refers to Buddy refuelling not via tanker most of the time, on the aircraft carriers right?

 

[Trololo]

The MiG 29K of the IN does not have the UPG's D-29 EW suite. In fact it carries an Elta jamming pod on the wing, similar to what the Mk1A will do. And the Navy's real gripe with the platform is with structural integrity (not engineered well for hard carrier landings) and engine life (RD33 has known issues). But overall the platforms are very new and very capable.

I'm of the opinion that once the LCA Mk2 starts rolling out the MiG 29Ks should be given a deep upgrade with all the Mk2 electronics and Indian weapons. They include
1> Uttam AESA (preferably with GaN modules)
2> IRDE IRST sensor
3> the entire Astra family of missiles
4> SAAW munitions
5> Mk2's mission computer and Nav/Attack system
6> Mk2s large area display cockpit (centre stick will prevent the larger second display so a smaller version can be developed. Alternatively one can also consider the large dual screen cockpit upgrade proposed for the Su-30.
7> Garudaa and Garuthma glide bombs
8> NG-LGB bomb
9> Python-5 or latest R-73 CCM (K74M2)
10> SD-radio
11> Mk2's UEWS or at least D-29 EW suite.
12> Tactical datalinks
13> CATS capability for the 29KUBs.
14> DCMAWS
15> Brahmos-NG

Bonus: At some point an engine change from the RD-33 to the Mk2's engine should be considered if dimensions permit. The airframes are quite good to be retired in about 20 years.

Also, I think that once the TEDBF rolls in the MiG 29Ks should be operated by the Navy from shore based facilities closer to the border. That will ensure that IAF and IN work together in CAPs and interoperability between the services improves.

One thing that Russian aircraft lack is a solid nav/attack system. The pilots have to work extra hard to fly the plane vs carrying out the offensive mission at hand. This is not a problem with western aircraft, and this principle has been used in the LCA as well. Keeping that in mind the same can be used in the upgrade of the MiG 29Ks as well. Imagine IN taking off from Guj, refuelling over Delhi, and then crossing into Pak and bombing a terror camp.

 

[Trololo]

Is the LCA Mk2 mission computer ready? Has testing commenced?