Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[abhay rajput]

The lethargic approach of IAF as well as govt. babus have successfully pushed us at a disadvantage vis-a-vis PAF. Such dangerous short-sightedness will recur a heavy cost on our defenses and I fear, on the day of judgment we will be caught pants down.

1. PAF acquired advanced long-range BVRs AIM-120 AMRAAMS, while we brandishing our junk missiles.
2. PAF developed (or copied/stolen whatever) UCAVs while we are yet to get ANY UCAV (indigenous or not). IAF ought to learn from Turkey's success with UCAV with taking out even advanced ADs like Panstir.
3. PAF acquired many AWACS and EW platforms in greater number and quality even though they have less area to cover. We are dancing high upon our 3-odd Netra's and Phalcon AWACS.
4. PAF is inducting 4th-generation jets (JF-17s) in large numbers. Yeah, you may hate them or call them junk, but they at least fly and are not flying coffins like our dinosaur-era Migs.

Not only that, our beloved Navy comes in the same blind-category -

1. Our navy is operating without any Minesweepers. The day enemy submarines drop and barricades our harbours with mines we will be scratching our heads.
2. Our new Scorpene submarines are practically toothless with outdated age-old short-range torpedoes and we are still planning of buying heavy torpedoes.
3. Our Kamorta-class corvettes are branded as anti-submarine but lack dedicated sensors and sonars to detect submarines (towed-array sonars).
4. Our Kolkata-class destroyers are heavily underpowered with only 16-missiles Silos and a small-76mm main gun.

List goes on and on...

Agree but not on navy. Navy is the strongest arm of our defence forces in my opinion. Believe me when I say this navy is not idiot to made kamorta class ( 3300 tons) for nothing. There only purpose is to hunt submarines and towed array sonar are deployed.
Secondly torpedoes are going to be a varunastra submarine variant which is almost ready. Due to blacklisting there is nothing anybody can do about that . Thirdly Kolkata class is pretty decent and is better than anything Pa
kistan or Chinese have including there latest cruiser in terms of avionics and sensors. Now I know that Kolkata Carries 48 to Chinese 64 vls but I would still be in Kolkata class because the missiles matters a lot too. We have now increased range brahmos. And both Brahmos and Barak 8 are state of the art.

Navy to soon get latest Sonar systems for anti-sub warfare

The system, which can detect enemy submarines, will give a fillip to India's anti-submarine warfare capabilities.

m.economictimes.com

2 versions of BrahMos missile successfully test-fired

The land-attack version of the missile was test-fired from a mobile autonomous launcher at Launch Complex-3 of the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur near here at around 8.30 am, they said. The trial of the surface-to-surface missile was successful, meeting all the parameters, a Defence...

m.economictimes.com

800-km range BrahMos missile to be tested this year

BrahMos variants can be launched from land, air, sea and under water.

m.hindustantimes.com

 

[Suryavanshi]

Pak Navy seems to be at its weakest right now.

Frigates- 8
Coveretee-1
Patrol-12
Replenishment-6
Minesweeper-3
Sumbarine-8

Seriously tho our coast guard can destroy these niggas.

A squadron of Su 30 fitted with Brhamos NG could wreck the whole Navy in 1 mission.

Once the Navy is down we can take care of the air defence and then bomb the shit out of them.

By the end of 2030 tho they will double each and every category of ship.

 

[Bleh]

Not only that, our beloved Navy comes in the same blind-category -

1. Our navy is operating without any Minesweepers. The day enemy submarines drop and barricades our harbours with mines we will be scratching our heads.
2. Our new Scorpene submarines are practically toothless with outdated age-old short-range torpedoes and we are still planning of buying heavy torpedoes.
3. Our Kamorta-class corvettes are branded as anti-submarine but lack dedicated sensors and sonars to detect submarines (towed-array sonars).
4. Our Kolkata-class destroyers are heavily underpowered with only 16-missiles Silos and a small-76mm main gun.

1. Not that easy... Our anti-submarine capabilities are even better than anti-surface.
2. Yeah, ok.
3. This too. These two are basically IOC standard.
   But better to be built toothless early on & then toothed(?) than waiting ages for teeth to grow like IA/IAF. India's Navy is everything the other two are not!.. It's not the that deserved this fund-cut.
4. Below

Maybe this is the reason.

More likely they're waiting for Universal-VLS being available to replace all the different ones with those.

 

[Waanar]

Pak Navy seems to be at its weakest right now.

Frigates- 8
Coveretee-1
Patrol-12
Replenishment-6
Minesweeper-3
Sumbarine-8

Seriously tho our coast guard can destroy these niggas.

A squadron of Su 30 fitted with Brhamos NG could wreck the whole Navy in 1 mission.

Once the Navy is down we can take care of the air defence and then bomb the shit out of them.

By the end of 2030 tho they will double each and every category of ship.

It'd be really funny if Indian troops start flooding in Karachi overnight. Everyone's eyeing Kashmir and LOC. Meanwhile, THAT's happening. I swear I'll laugh for a whole year if something like that unfolds.

Another reason why we need a dedicated Marine Corp though. I don't see what the hold up is.
If the Army is too reluctant to part with some of it's troops, just convert half the Southern Command to that role and let them carry out joint training with the Navy.

Just experiment with the idea of marine IBG. Almost all nations around us have large coasts. Its makes more sense for us than anyone else to raise a Marine Corp.

 

[arkos]

If range of current BrahMos system can be increased to 600 KMs without minimal changes as claimed, Then 16 of them are more than enough for any operation. When Naval Nirbhay LACM comes along they can further add 16 more VLS for it.

 

[WolfPack86]

Lack of consensus in MoD grounds Navy's acquisition of 111 copters for now
NEW DELHI: With Ministry of Defence unable to decide on who would be the Indian partner -- a private company or a Public Sector Undertakings (PSU) -- Indian Navy's acquisition of 111 helicopters under the strategic partnership model remains grounded for now.


The acquisition, estimated to be worth Rs 21,738 crore, of Naval Utility Helicopter (NUH) is the first one being processed under the new Strategic Partner procurement model. It is aimed to boost domestic manufacturing in collaboration with foreign firms.


Earlier, Indian Navy had shortlisted three foreign and four private Indian companies. But now discussion over making state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) the strategic partner has delayed the entire acquisition process.


"There is a lack of consensus within the Ministry of Defence as to whether Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) should be made the strategic partner or private firms," said a source in the ministry.


This has further delayed the issuance of the Request for Proposal (RFP) for Naval Utility Helicopters.


In 2019-end, the Defence Acquisition Council headed by Defence Minister Rajnath Sigh was expected to give a final clearance next week for the Request of Proposal (RFP) after having identified the Indian firms and foreign manufacturers who will get together for the production of the helicopters.


But it did not happen and the matter was referred back to Indian Navy to consider the proposal of involving Defence PSUs.


The decision to go with private Indian industry was taken in August 2018.


Out of the 111 helicopters, 95 will be manufactured in India by the selected Indian Strategic Partner.

These helicopters will replace the ageing Chetaks and would to be used for search and rescue operations, casualty evacuation, low-intensity marine operations and torpedo drops.


Sources said that Navy has lost around five Chetak helicopters in the last seven years. Further, Chetaks' availability with the Navy will reduce by 2023 considerably. To procure helicopters was first proposed in 2008. The procurement was under 'buy global' category.


It was only in 2014 that the DAC directed the Indian Navy to withdraw the earlier procurement process and initiate a new proposal under 'buy and make Indian' category. Later it was decided to go for strategic partnership model.


Through the strategic partnership model, the government has aimed at reducing defence imports that currently account for 60 per cent of military acquisitions.

Lack of consensus in MoD grounds Navy's acquisition of 111 copters for now

NEW DELHI: With Ministry of Defence unable to decide on who would be the Indian partner -- a private company or a Public Sector Undertakings (PSU) -- Indian Nav

www.newindianexpress.com

 

[Neil]

Russia Offers India Three Refurbished Kilo-Class Submarines

The Indian Navy is reportedly considering three refurbished Kilo-class boats from Russia.

The Indian Navy is considering an offer by Russia’s state-owned JSC United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) for three refurbished Kilo-class submarines to augment its shortfall in diesel-electric submarines (SSKs), according to local media reports.

USC reportedly offered a $1.8-2 billion “three plus three” package that would include upgrade work on three Indian Navy Sindhughosh Kilo (Project 877EKM)-class SSKs with an additional three refurbished Russian Navy Kilo-class hulls.

The possible defense deal was expected to be raised at a meeting of the India-Russia Inter-Governmental Commission on Military and Military Technical Cooperation (IRIGC-M&MTC) that was scheduled to take place in Goa last month but was cancelled due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

The Indian Navy would receive the Russian-made SSKs at one-year intervals with the first boat slated for delivery three years after the conclusion of the agreement. The refit of the three Sindhughosh Kilo (Project 877EKM)-class SSKs, which entered service in 1990, 1991, and 2000 respectively, would extend their operational life by 10 years.

According to Indian media reports, senior officers in the Indian Navy submarine branch are looking at the proposal favorably and see it as a stopgap measure to address the perennial shortage of operationally deployable boats in the force.


“One important capability which the Kilos provide India is their submarine launched cruise missiles,” naval analyst H I Sutton wrote for Forbes earlier this week. “They are equipped with the Russian supplied 3M-14E Club-S missile which is roughly similar to the American Tomahawk.”

The Russian 3M-54E1 Klub-S submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM) has an estimated 220 kilometer range against surface targets.

The Navy’s SSK force currently consists of 14 SSKs against a projected requirement of 24 SSKs under the service’s Maritime Capacity Perspective Plan (MCPP) 2012–27. One Indian Navy Kilo-class SSK was lost due to an explosion in Mumbai harbor in 2013.


Last year, India and Russia signed an intergovernmental agreement for a 10-year lease of a Russian nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN).

The Indian Navy leased two other subs from Russia in past years. In 1988, the service commissioned a Project 670 Skat-class (NATO classification: Charlie-class) nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine, rechristened INS Chakra, under a three-year lease. In 2012, a second INS Chakra, the retrofitted K-152 Project 971 Akula-class Nerpa, was leased for a decade, which might be extended to 2027.

Last year, Russia also offered India to jointly develop a new SSK class based on the Russian Amur-1650 class. The Amur-1650 is the export version of the Project 677 Lada-class.

The Navy commissioned its second of six Scorpene-class (Kalvari-class) SSKs in September 2019.

Russia Offers India Three Refurbished Kilo-Class Submarines

The Indian Navy is reportedly considering three refurbished Kilo-class boats from Russia.

thediplomat.com

 

[ladder]

#bluewaternavy

After 80 days of anti-piracy operations in Gulf of Aden, INS Sunayna back in Kochi


sustained 80 days of the mission-based deployment without entering any port while being fuelled and resupplied by tankers of the Indian Navy and United States Navy.

After 80 days of anti-piracy operations in Gulf of Aden, INS Sunayna back in Kochi

INS Sunayna, originally based in Kochi under the Southern Naval Command (SNC), sustained 80 days of the mission-based deployment without entering any port while being fuelled and resupplied by tankers of the Indian Navy and United States Navy.

indianexpress.com

 

[IndianHawk]

Pak Navy seems to be at its weakest right now.

Frigates- 8
Coveretee-1
Patrol-12
Replenishment-6
Minesweeper-3
Sumbarine-8

Seriously tho our coast guard can destroy these niggas.

A squadron of Su 30 fitted with Brhamos NG could wreck the whole Navy in 1 mission.

Once the Navy is down we can take care of the air defence and then bomb the shit out of them.

By the end of 2030 tho they will double each and every category of ship.

Su30 + bramhos is too much for them . Jaguars with harpoon and mirage with exocet can sink their whole surface fleet.

Su30+ bramhos is too sink Chinese carrier if they dare to come into our ocean for fight. Too bad Chinese j15 turned out useless. Now there Carrier are just sitting ducks. Lol.

 

[IndianHawk]

Also with mh60r will come naval strike missile which is the most potent western anti ship missile .

24 mh60 with nsm could take out 10+ surface warships on their own .

Our p8i can also carry harpoon and light weight torpedo . Lca can also carry harpoon as it's already mated with elta radar in Jaguar.

We have devastating anti ship/ submarine capabilities.

 

[IndianHawk]

If range of current BrahMos system can be increased to 600 KMs without minimal changes as claimed, Then 16 of them are more than enough for any operation. When Naval Nirbhay LACM comes along they can further add 16 more VLS for it.

Most western destroyer also carry only 16 antiship missiles . Some carry more anti air missile then our destroyers but their missile are older and less accurate then Barak 8 .

American Japanese and South Korean destroyers carry lots of Sam's because they also perform ballistic missile defense.

Our BMD systems are land based so our destroyers don't need too many Sam's. And for anti ship 16 bramhos mean 16 enemy ship sunk !!

10 of our destroyer could sunk 160 enemy ships . Who has that many ships . Lol.

 

[Gandaberunda]

It'd be really funny if Indian troops start flooding in Karachi overnight. Everyone's eyeing Kashmir and LOC. Meanwhile, THAT's happening. I swear I'll laugh for a whole year if something like that unfolds.

Another reason why we need a dedicated Marine Corp though. I don't see what the hold up is.
If the Army is too reluctant to part with some of it's troops, just convert half the Southern Command to that role and let them carry out joint training with the Navy.

Just experiment with the idea of marine IBG. Almost all nations around us have large coasts. Its makes more sense for us than anyone else to raise a Marine Corp.

Marine corp doesn't make any sense and it will be liability for Navy.
Navy primary responsibility is naval blockade and achieve destruction of costal infrastructure and defence of enemy through naval aviation. Once it's achieved Army and Air force can do their primary job!
Navy has Marcos for specific covert operations. If anything is required navy should expand Marcos and Naval arm (UAV and drones)

 

[Gandaberunda]

Most western destroyer also carry only 16 antiship missiles . Some carry more anti air missile then our destroyers but their missile are older and less accurate then Barak 8 .

American Japanese and South Korean destroyers carry lots of Sam's because they also perform ballistic missile defense.

Our BMD systems are land based so our destroyers don't need too many Sam's. And for anti ship 16 bramhos mean 16 enemy ship sunk !!

10 of our destroyer could sunk 160 enemy ships . Who has that many ships . Lol.

Indian Navy war ships enjoy significant upper hand in BRAHMOS. We don't need 64 or 96 silos or SAM. Brahmos is deadly weapon and presently there is no counter to the missile. In war enemy ship should detect our destroyers and fire a salvo before Brahmos is launched... Once brahmos is launched then it's game over for enemy ships!
Even US has no counter to brahmos and they did acknowledged the same...Also Visakhapatnam class destroyers will have 32+16 silos ( for future missiles) configuration.

 

[Karthi]

Most western destroyer also carry only 16 antiship missiles . Some carry more anti air missile then our destroyers but their missile are older and less accurate then Barak 8 .

American Japanese and South Korean destroyers carry lots of Sam's because they also perform ballistic missile defense.

Our BMD systems are land based so our destroyers don't need too many Sam's. And for anti ship 16 bramhos mean 16 enemy ship sunk !!

10 of our destroyer could sunk 160 enemy ships . Who has that many ships . Lol.

One Brahmos is enough for Pak Ships , but Chinese we need two or three . Need 3-5 Brahmos to disable Aircraft carriers.

 

[IndianHawk]

Indian Navy war ships enjoy significant upper hand in BRAHMOS. We don't need 64 or 96 silos or SAM. Brahmos is deadly weapon and presently there is no counter to the missile. In war enemy ship should detect our destroyers and fire a salvo before Brahmos is launched... Once brahmos is launched then it's game over for enemy ships!
Even US has no counter to brahmos and they did acknowledged the same...Also Visakhapatnam class destroyers will have 32+16 silos ( for future missiles) configuration.

Sam and anti ship are different things.
Kolkata class also carry 32 Sam + 16 bramhos.
And probably Delhi class too.

 

[Waanar]

Marine corp doesn't make any sense and it will be liability for Navy.
Navy primary responsibility is naval blockade and achieve destruction of costal infrastructure and defence of enemy through naval aviation. Once it's achieved Army and Air force can do their primary job!
Navy has Marcos for specific covert operations. If anything is required navy should expand Marcos and Naval arm (UAV and drones)

Disagree. A Marine infantry formation makes tremendous sense. Can you imagine how overstretched any neighbor's military would be if there was always a threat of coastal invasion?
A proper storming of Karachi by a large infantry section? Pakistan will be engaged on fronts which are nigh unforeseeable.

It's like you either disengage from western border and send your troops to secure the cities, or you leave your citizens under the enemy as your economic hub gets overrun.
It's just a dedicated resource waster for those guys.
Would also be a huge morale breaker for troops with family in said cities.
What's more?
You can't even use your heavy ordnance on infantry sections flooding in the civil areas lest all your civvies die.
It's just a horrible situation all around (for them).

 

[IndianHawk]

One Brahmos is enough for Pak Ships , but Chinese we need two or three . Need 3-5 Brahmos to disable Aircraft carriers.

We also have have su30 raining down bramhos against chinki carrier and p8i striking with harpoons.

We also will have our two carriers against them flying mig29k with Russian anti ship missiles. Kh series.

And mh60r with naval strike missile (120km+) flying from our frigate and destroyers.

We have overwhelming capabilities and building more continuously.

 

[Gandaberunda]

Disagree. A Marine infantry formation makes tremendous sense. Can you imagine how overstretched any neighbor's military would be if there was always a threat of coastal invasion?
A proper storming of Karachi by a large infantry section? Pakistan will be engaged on fronts which are nigh unforeseeable.

It's like you either disengage from western border and send your troops to secure the cities, or you leave your citizens under the enemy as your economic hub gets overrun.
It's just a dedicated resource waster for those guys.
Would also be a huge morale breaker for troops with family in said cities.
What's more?
You can't even use your heavy ordnance on infantry sections flooding in the civil areas lest all your civvies die.
It's just a horrible situation all around (for them).

This would be over burden for navy at present scenario! While on paper it looks superb but actual scenario is meh!
First budget constraints will force navy other procurement to stall then army will ask to hand over control of navy infrastructure to them which navy will never. Similarly IAF wants to hand over to them navy aviation as well as army aviation...
Army doesn't fore go their infantry while navy doesn't want to lose there assets!
Indian Navy wants to be become blue water navy and Navigation security provider of Indian Ocean., With this aim navy should concentrate on Subs, Destroyers frigates IAC-1 costal batteries UAVs and formidable Coast guard. If navy wants to get involve with Pak or bully them that's only in sir creek area...
Pakistan can be taken care by coast guard

 

[Gandaberunda]

One Brahmos is enough for Pak Ships , but Chinese we need two or three . Need 3-5 Brahmos to disable Aircraft carriers.

In a hypothetical situation always a salvos of missiles 2, 4,6,8 will be launched based on threat perception or acquired intelligence data!

 

[Suryavanshi]

Su30 + bramhos is too much for them . Jaguars with harpoon and mirage with exocet can sink their whole surface fleet.

Su30+ bramhos is too sink Chinese carrier if they dare to come into our ocean for fight. Too bad Chinese j15 turned out useless. Now there Carrier are just sitting ducks. Lol.

I had suggested Su30 because of their range and payload, but as long as Pakis get fucked I have nothing against it.

We should also place our Fighter jets with anti ship missiles in Andaman Islands. At least two squadrons with Hardened hangers and a dense air defense.

Imagine just 50 mil $ worth Bhramhos missile taking out 1 billion $ worth Paki navy.
It will take them forever to replenish their fleet.
many people believe our first offence will be air but I suggest Naval action as the very first thing because this will force Pakis to shift warplane down south to defend Karachi.