Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Prashant12]

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[cobra commando]

Nirmala Sitharaman chairs first DAC, clears sonars, missiles for Navy

New Delhi: Chairing her first Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) meeting, Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman on Wednesday cleared a project worth Rs 200 crore for buying indigenous sonars for Indian Naval ships, and another one for missiles for the navy. The minister has decided to hold meetings of the DAC, the highest decision making body for defence acquisitions in the ministry, every fortnight. On Wednesday, the DAC cleared an Acceptance of Necessity for the Indian Navy for procurement of upgraded sonars for its destroyers and frigates under the Buy Indian category, Defence Ministry officials said. These sonars are designed, developed and manufactured indigenously by the DRDO and the Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory, Kochi. "It will provide a significant boost to the Navy's anti-submarine warfare capabilities," a statement said. The DAC also cleared procurement of missiles for replenishing the naval inventory. Sitharaman also reviewed the status of the Capital Acquisition Schemes and directed that the schemes are to be meticulously monitored and brought to maturity within stipulated timelines. She said that holding DAC meets fortnightly will enable speeding up the process of capability development of the armed forces.

Nirmala Sitharaman chairs first DAC, clears sonars, missiles for Navy

 

[NeXoft007]

RFI issued by Indian Navy for construction of Six High Speed Landing Crafts (HSLCs).

 

[Armand2REP]

RFI issued by Indian Navy for construction of Six High Speed Landing Crafts (HSLCs).

(d) It should have two ramps, one each forward and aft for enabling ‘Roll-on Roll-off’ manoeuvre. These ramps should be capable of supporting loads of 55 tons or more when fully lowered. The ramps of the High Speed Landing Craft (HSLC) should be able to mate with each other to facilitate loading/ unloading of cargo from one HSLC to other, both at the beach and in the dock well (in ramp to ramp configuration).

(a) Capable of storing main battle tanks and other armoured vehicles within area > 125 m². 11 SECTION C - DESIGN CONSIDERATIONS

(b) Capable of storage, launch and recovery of an infantry platoon with either of the following combinations of vehicles (or equivalent) upto State 3:- (i) One x T 90 tank or T 72 tank. (ii) Six Armoured Personnel Carriers (APCs). (iii) Four APC + Two LMVs (Light Motor Vehicle) + One Jeep. (c) Reloading from LPD should be possible by embarking vehicles forward to save time and for better security, including by stern gate marriage.

https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/sites/default/files/tender_document/RFI - HSLC - 20 Sep 17.pdf?download=1

It looks like they wrote this for the L-CAT.

 

[Adioz]

(d) It should have two ramps, one each forward and aft for enabling ‘Roll-on Roll-off’ manoeuvre. These ramps should be capable of supporting loads of 55 tons or more when fully lowered. The ramps of the High Speed Landing Craft (HSLC) should be able to mate with each other to facilitate loading/ unloading of cargo from one HSLC to other, both at the beach and in the dock well (in ramp to ramp configuration).

(a) Capable of storing main battle tanks and other armoured vehicles within area > 125 m². 11 SECTION C - DESIGN CONSIDERATIONS

(b) Capable of storage, launch and recovery of an infantry platoon with either of the following combinations of vehicles (or equivalent) upto State 3:- (i) One x T 90 tank or T 72 tank. (ii) Six Armoured Personnel Carriers (APCs). (iii) Four APC + Two LMVs (Light Motor Vehicle) + One Jeep. (c) Reloading from LPD should be possible by embarking vehicles forward to save time and for better security, including by stern gate marriage.

https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/sites/default/files/tender_document/RFI - HSLC - 20 Sep 17.pdf?download=1

It looks like they wrote this for the L-CAT.

6 for four LHD? This does not make sense.
There is so much uncertainty regarding this LHD project. I thought the Navy meant for these ships to have hovercraft as landing craft. Do they intend to maintain a fleet of landing craft that will be carried by the LHD in varying configurations and combinations for mission specific goals?

Also, regarding an earlier confusion:-
What is the "10 heavy lift helicopter" requirement in the LHD RFI?

• ~35-ton class? (CH-53) [Not sure if any LHD prospect can handle this]
• ~22-ton class? (Chinook, Osprey) [Not sure if the Navy is interested in these for transport roles]
• <13-ton class? (S-70 Seahawk, NH-90, IMRH, Sea King, Ka-31) [WTF?]

 

[Armand2REP]

6 for four LHD? This does not make sense.
There is so much uncertainty regarding this LHD project. I thought the Navy meant for these ships to have hovercraft as landing craft. Do they intend to maintain a fleet of landing craft that will be carried by the LHD in varying configurations and combinations for mission specific goals?

Also, regarding an earlier confusion:-
What is the "10 heavy lift helicopter" requirement in the LHD RFI?

• ~35-ton class? (CH-53) [Not sure if any LHD prospect can handle this]
• ~22-ton class? (Chinook, Osprey) [Not sure if the Navy is interested in these for transport roles]
• <13-ton class? (S-70 Seahawk, NH-90, IMRH, Sea King, Ka-31) [WTF?]

We only have 4 for 3 LHDs and Egypt only has 2 for 2 LHDs. 6 for 4 sounds right. You will always have one LHD in refit but your LCATs can go much longer without refit. If you put two L-CATs into the well dock there isn't much room left for smaller LCUs. With a 100t load, it isn't necessary to buy them as you can drop off your MBTs and anything else. It can carry an entire platoon and all of its equipment in one run.

That 10 heavy lift means it must be able to carry ten 13 ton helicopters but have the deck strength to operate a Sea Stallion. There is no design short of a full carrier elevator that can base a 33t CH-53.

 

[Adioz]

We only have 4 for 3 LHDs and Egypt only has 2 for 2 LHDs. 6 for 4 sounds right. You will always have one LHD in refit but your LCATs can go much longer without refit. If you put two L-CATs into the well dock there isn't much room left for smaller LCUs. With a 100t load, it isn't necessary to buy them as you can drop off your MBTs and anything else. It can carry an entire platoon and all of its equipment in one run.

That 10 heavy lift means it must be able to carry ten 13 ton helicopters but have the deck strength to operate a Sea Stallion. There is no design short of a full carrier elevator that can base a 33t CH-53.

Even so, it makes me wonder if the Navy is considering buying CH-53 or maybe making some Indian 33 ton helicopter (that would be cool, no?). Why else would they need a strengthened deck for heavy lifters. They are not part of NATO.

 

[Vijyes]

We only have 4 for 3 LHDs and Egypt only has 2 for 2 LHDs. 6 for 4 sounds right. You will always have one LHD in refit but your LCATs can go much longer without refit. If you put two L-CATs into the well dock there isn't much room left for smaller LCUs. With a 100t load, it isn't necessary to buy them as you can drop off your MBTs and anything else. It can carry an entire platoon and all of its equipment in one run.

That 10 heavy lift means it must be able to carry ten 13 ton helicopters but have the deck strength to operate a Sea Stallion. There is no design short of a full carrier elevator that can base a 33t CH-53.

Even so, it makes me wonder if the Navy is considering buying CH-53 or maybe making some Indian 33 ton helicopter (that would be cool, no?). Why else would they need a strengthened deck for heavy lifters. They are not part of NATO.

CH53 is 33000 pounds, not 33000 kg in weight. There is no chopper with 33 ton weight. Such kind of weight is pure insanity

 

[Adioz]

CH53 is 33000 pounds, not 33000 kg in weight. There is no chopper with 33 ton weight. Such kind of weight is pure insanity

My bad, I should have specified. I meant CH-53E, not CH-53D. CH-53E has a MTOW of 33,000 kg. Its still lesser than Mi-26 which has MTOW of 56,000 kg. One of the key points against Ospreys in the Osprey vs Super Sea Stallion debate is that the Osprey has a lower payload capacity. So now I wonder, if Indian Navy gave a requirement of a 33 ton helo, would we buy from America or have HAL make it?

 

[rohit b3]

I just heard. that INS Kolkata and INS Tarkash will be open to public for access on 1st and 2nd Oct at Mumbai. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Shashwat]

^^ Yes.

 

[rohit b3]

Okay some facts about INS Kolkata/INS Tarkash I learnt today

1. Asked about the range of the Main MFSTAR. As the makers say its "Over 250 kms", i was expecting it to be around 300 kms. Asked 2 officers, both said its around 500 kms .

2. They said the LRSAM to have a range of 70 kms, while BrahMos to have range of 290 kms. Later after the crowd dispersed, on asking if these ranges are being downplayed, he agreed they were. However on asking the weapon's officer the same question, he denied and said the ranges were as they were being said. He wasnt too sure of the new 500 kms BrahMos being tested and said Kolkata had the 290 kms version.

3. The Barak 8ER can be easily fitted on the Kolkata Class once they are ready.

4. He said the INS Kolkata alone is enough to take out all the main warships of the Pakistani Navy and destroy Karachi harbor. About the Chinese, he spoke about their poor quality equipment, citing an example that half of their VLS would not probably even work in battle.

5. Said there's room for additional VLS, but was not too worried when i pointed out that it had lower number of SAMs.

6. We have been hearing that Barak 8 has proven to stop Supersonic targets. However the officer said he was not aware of any such tests. The Navy did not have a supersonic target to do such tests as all their targets are subsonic . However they were procuring supersonic aerial targets soon .

7. In a battle,their target is not to sink an enemy warship, but just to disable it, and one BrahMos is enough to make sure it does not get back into War.

8. Kolkata Class carries 920 tons of fuel, however they could not give me the range of the warship in kms/nmiles as they said they never calculate it in that way.

9. Talwar Class Frigates have 9 x VLS for BrahMos, however currently fitted with 8 and its Torpedos have a range of 40 kms.

 

[Kalki_2018]

9 VLS?? That's an odd number for VLS.

 

[rohit b3]

9 VLS?? That's an odd number for VLS.

True. Didn question that though.

 

[Willy2]

6. We have been hearing that Barak 8 has proven to stop Supersonic targets. However the officer said he was not aware of any such tests. The Navy did not have a supersonic target to do such tests as all their targets are subsonic . However they were procuring supersonic aerial targets soon .

Why not testing them against P-15 or Klubs ?

 

[captscooby81]

Thanks Rohit for the information you shared I am sure you might be delighted seeing the warship with your own eyes and interacting with the officers and crew. Minus the photographs.

Don't you think the officers are underestimating the PLAN s TYPE 52&55 capabilities with the numbers of VLS Type 55 has they can rain missiles on entire battle group of IN ships . The quality may be doubtful but sure the PLAN has the quantity to overcome those gaps in the quality . Reasons why Chinese are building so many DDGs like dumplings .

Okay some facts about INS Kolkata/INS Tarkash I learnt today

4. He said the INS Kolkata alone is enough to take out all the main warships of the Pakistani Navy and destroy Karachi harbor. About the Chinese, he spoke about their poor quality equipment, citing an example that half of their VLS would not probably even work in battle. .

 

[Kyubi]

Why not testing them against P-15 or Klubs ?

May be they dont come cheap.. its nit everyday that a p15 or klubs are fired

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Willy2]

May be they dont come cheap.. its nit everyday that a p15 or klubs are fired

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

OK...I agree Klub are expensive , but i think we start decommissioning Termits ...what a great way to say good bye to them by banging then over the ocean as target

 

[rohit b3]

Why not testing them against P-15 or Klubs ?

Did ask that and he replied that they cannot risk a missile launched towards the ship, incase the SAM misses its mark. The aerial targets he spoke about were targets such as our Lakshya drone.

I did have in mind that they could just use a P15/Klub/BrahMos over the ocean and use a Kolkata to intercept it, but i didn press further.

 

[rohit b3]

Thanks Rohit for the information you shared I am sure you might be delighted seeing the warship with your own eyes and interacting with the officers and crew. Minus the photographs.

Don't you think the officers are underestimating the PLAN s TYPE 52&55 capabilities with the numbers of VLS Type 55 has they can rain missiles on entire battle group of IN ships . The quality may be doubtful but sure the PLAN has the quantity to overcome those gaps in the quality . Reasons why Chinese are building so many DDGs like dumplings .

Yes, indeed! Loved the experience!

And one thing i realized from the conversations, unlike people in this forum, these men are not defense analysts . Though they would have all the knowledge of their own platform they are serving in, their protocols, procedures, exact capabilities,etc , they have little knowledge of whats outside that.