Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Gessler]

Umm, AF Tejas mk2 would be ready for induction around 2025, and the Naval LCA mk2 very soon after that. Vishal's kneel laying can be expected around 2020, with completion around 2030.
Now if IN sticks to the plan for 6 LCA mk1 along with 50 LCA mk2.....IN will have a total of 101 Combat Jets,including the 45 Mig29Ks by the time Vishal is commissioned.

Its very much possible that 25 of them are placed on each Vikrant and Vikramaditya, while 35 of them are placed on Vishal along with 2-4 AWECs and Refuellers, leaving around 16 to operate from Shore based facilities.
Once Naval AMCA gets inducted, hoping around 2035, it will increase the Naval Air arm size.
Lets hope IN sticks to its commitment for Indian origin products than pay 300mil$ each for Rafales.
Tejas mk2 can be a great success after seeing the Tejas mk1.

It's quite likely that if Rafale-M is ordered, NLCA Mk-2 numbers will be slashed.

Any number regarding Rafale's price is unofficial & imaginary at this point and it's best not to arrive at knee-jerk conclusions based on media speculations. MoD/MoF will quote the price of the 36 aircraft order, plus the licensing and everything for the 90 planes to be built in India as tranche-2 with upgrades including new engines (enhanced performance, supercruising ability and payload), GaN radars, and other SPECTRA upgrades.

The Navy is believed to be considering an order for 54 Rafale-M fighters initially for the first IAC-2 carrier + replacements/shore-based roles. It is not known for sure at this point how many will be directly procured from Merignac and how many from the Make in India production line. Wait & see.

Even the NLCA Mk-2 is being designed as a STOBAR fighter that uses ski-jump for take off. Getting that design qualified for CATOBAR will mean a different section of the project will have to be started. Till date IN has expressed ZERO need or interest in Mk-2 being a CATOBAR-capable aircraft. That clearly shows the Vishal has no plans for carrying Tejas.

 

[rohit b3]

It's quite likely that if Rafale-M is ordered, NLCA Mk-2 numbers will be slashed.

Any number regarding Rafale's price is unofficial & imaginary at this point and it's best not to arrive at knee-jerk conclusions based on media speculations. MoD/MoF will quote the price of the 36 aircraft order, plus the licensing and everything for the 90 planes to be built in India as tranche-2 with upgrades including new engines (enhanced performance, supercruising ability and payload), GaN radars, and other SPECTRA upgrades.

The Navy is believed to be considering an order for 54 Rafale-M fighters initially for the first IAC-2 carrier + replacements/shore-based roles. It is not known for sure at this point how many will be directly procured from Merignac and how many from the Make in India production line. Wait & see.

Even the NLCA Mk-2 is being designed as a STOBAR fighter that uses ski-jump for take off. Getting that design qualified for CATOBAR will mean a different section of the project will have to be started. Till date IN has expressed ZERO need or interest in Mk-2 being a CATOBAR-capable aircraft. That clearly shows the Vishal has no plans for carrying Tejas.

Well, personally I hope the Rafale deal doesn happen and IN goes for a large number of LCA mk2. IN had said a few months back that they were pitching for the LCA mk2 and not any imports. But oh well, we will know soon.

 

[Superdefender]

@Indx TechStyle, I do not know what will come after Vishal, but I do know that P23000E Shtorm news was a farce. Read those article carefully and you will know that. It was mentioned that the new carrier will be 300m long and 65k tn displacement. That is the same displacement as of Vishal! So forget that.

 

[Superdefender]

@Gessler, after so much drama on 36 AirForce version of Rafales, if you still think MOD will allow Navy version of Rafale, then I have no words. Rafale-M will be definitely costlier than basic Rafale. And IAC-II will carry 50-55 fighters. Will a mixture of N-AMCA & Rafale-M reach to that figure? I smell negative.

 

[rohit b3]

@Gessler, after so much drama on 36 AirForce version of Rafales, if you still think MOD will allow Navy version of Rafale, then I have no words. Rafale-M will be definitely costlier than basic Rafale. And IAC-II will carry 50-55 fighters. Will a mixture of N-AMCA & Rafale-M reach to that figure? I smell negative.

Correction - Vishal will carry 50-55 Aircrafts in total(not fighters). Possibly in a full load that would include 40 Fighters , 4 larger AWACS/Refuellers, 10-12 Helicopters.

 

[Gessler]

@Gessler, after so much drama on 36 AirForce version of Rafales, if you still think MOD will allow Navy version of Rafale, then I have no words. Rafale-M will be definitely costlier than basic Rafale. And IAC-II will carry 50-55 fighters. Will a mixture of N-AMCA & Rafale-M reach to that figure? I smell negative.

I'm not going to keep making any more statements on this matter. You know very clearly what my stand is. Time will tell.

 

[Superdefender]

Correction - Vishal will carry 50-55 Aircrafts in total(not fighters). Possibly in a full load that would include 40 Fighters , 4 larger AWACS/Refuellers, 10-12 Helicopters.

Yeah I meant 50-55 aircrafts in total. 40 N-fighters, around 10 combination of Utility and ASW choppers, 2 Refuellers and 4 E-2D Advanced Hawkeyes AWACS, I guess.

 

[Superdefender]

@rohit b3, I forgot AURA!! That will also remain on board.

 

[garg_bharat]

This approach is succeeding you know. :grin:
India is getting EMALS from USA for INS Vishal, IN is considering another super carrier (confirmed nuclear powered) to be based on Russian Project 23000E.
Russia has itself shown interest.:biggrin2:
If things go well, India will have 5-6 CBGs by 2035.

We mange relations with Israel, Iran and Arabian Countries at same time (more bloody enemies).
What made you think that we can't handle west and Russia.
We are even handling China. Watch their daily papers.
According to them:
"India is not getting trapped in US game and collaborating with China.
India and China are historically connected" etc. etc..

Yeah. Optimistic. Optimism. We can do this We can do that. We have unlimited money. Unlimited brains. Unlimited goodwill. We can do anything. Blah. Blah. Blah.

 

[garg_bharat]

UK has no experience with nuclear-powered carriers, they never built any. Highly doubt any French shipyard has the physical capacity to accommodate a 65,000-ton carrier. This doubt was expressed not by me but by ex-servicemen from France on IDF.

In anyone's wildest dreams, the US is not going to build & transfer a new nuclear carrier to India.

Here's what's gonna happen : the Directorate of Naval Design (DND) / Naval Design Bureau (NDB), the same entities which designed the 40,000-ton IAC-1, will also design the 65,000-ton IAC-2. The only foreign assistance being sought is for a peer for the design-review process. This means a number of foreign agencies will submit their bids for lending design-reviewing assistance to DND/NDB. Whichever agency is selected (based on expertise they're willing to offer, and how much they charge for it) is NOT going to design a carrier for India - their contribution will be in very specific fields where they excel; for example, such a company might have unique expertise to offer for building air-conditioning in the carrier's crew quarters, they might have some solutions to offer with regard to comms room layout, lighting facilities, life-support equipment, and other internal engineering-related aspects. Too early to say exactly what's going to be done with foreign assistance inside the carrier.

Even multiple foreign agencies can be employed to lend their expertise in critical areas of their excellence, as we see fit. There's nothing strange or wrong about that. Even US shipyards hire help from leading European naval engineering companies for many of their leading vessels including Gerald R. Ford-class ACC and Zumwalt-class destroyer. We're likely to hire mostly European/Russian agencies as consultants/sub-contractors.

...and NO, the IAC-2 is NOT based on any foreign design. Such news are deliberately planted by agencies for purposes of page-ranking. India is not the only country with press-titutes. Only extremely gullible persons will believe it when someone says Russia is going to design a carrier for India. Russia, on the overall, has infact lesser carrier-construction expertise than India at the moment. That's a fact. The Soviet shipyards that constructed carriers are now in Ukraine, and have lost all their culminated work-experience over the decades. Russian yards lost their marbles even trying to refurbish an existing ship like Gorshkov.

The reactor is not coming from Russia or anywhere else...whoever even thinks it's possible to just import military PWRs from abroad just like that, LoL! ..... the reactor, just like the previous Arihant reactor, will be developed within India. Russian help, however, will be there...but under the strictest levels of secrecy and will be of an extremely low-profile nature. Even for Arihant, everyone with a good understanding of defence matters knows very well that the PWR or even the hull fabrication wouldn't have been possible without Russian help, but is that publicly announced or written by Govt. sources or press-releases? No, absolutely not. Such will be the discreet nature of the help.

As of EMALS, the US already knows very well that Russia is involved in a big way for Indian naval PWR efforts. Yet, they are opening up for an export of their latest aircraft-launch system to India. They have their reasons...if they were gonna have a problem with Russian input, either they will keep quiet about exporting any EMALS to India, or offer to replace Russia in the fields where they are currently lending a hand. Neither will they halt the offer for EMALS, nor will they offer assistance with PWRs.

Even the IAC-1 has several internal bulkheads & stuff from Russia, will be flying Russian MiG-29K fighters, and is yet powered by US General Electric LM2500+ gas turbines. If they didn't have a problem there, why should they have a problem now? Heck, why would they even be entertaining the idea of supplying EMALS to India in that case? Please learn to connect the dots, people!

Anyway, the EMALS would only be launching French/American/Indian aircraft. Russia has no alternatives to offer for any planned air power contingent on IAC-2, so stop hyperventilating, okay? Fighters will be CATOBAR-compatible and requirement for fixed-wing AEW aircraft is being identified. No Russian planes fit those criteria. Simply put, as far as EMALS is concerned, there are ZERO incompatibility issues with the aircraft. Heck, even all naval helicopters that are expected to be used on IAC-2 are either of American or European origin.

Good post but seriously flawed.
Knowledge of English is not a replacement for knowledge of facts.

Russia is seriously getting tired of India. Continued Russian support is no longer guaranteed. Plus Russia has to focus on its own military modernization. Reports notwithstanding, Russia may not be keen on the mixed model anymore.

Things were different in the past when Russia was mending relations with the West and India was seen as a bridge.

So India can design its own nuclear reactor and mechanicals, design its ship with Western consultancy, and build it.

India can succeed or fail, but it is India's risk.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Yeah. Optimistic. Optimism. We can do this We can do that. We have unlimited money. Unlimited brains. Unlimited goodwill. We can do anything. Blah. Blah. Blah.

Intelligent person.
We are doing it.

 

[Sabru Foxtrot]

Exclusive Video of Sea Harrier Last Takeoff from INS Viraat

​

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Sorry for replying late man.
I just liked your post and did not reply as got some urgent task.
Now,

It is true that Indian Navy is aiming to have a fleet of 5-6 carriers by the 2030-2040 time period. But trust me when I say that the Project-23000E news is bullsh!t.

All carriers we will build from now on will be of the same class, Vishal. We could build upto 4 carriers of this type and these alone will serve till 2060 or beyond. The IAC-1 was a stepping stone for acquiring experience and work skills, the IAC-2 will be a matured design. The same design, with continuing upgrades, will be be used as the staple carrier-class for upto 40+ years since the time of it's induction.

Much like how the Nimitz-class was introduced in mid-1970s and that class-design remained in use for 40-50 years and only now is the Gerald R. Ford-class being developed and prepared for introduction as a replacement.

Once a matured carrier design has been developed, no one keeps changing the design and making something different each successive decade. That's a bad plan and would be a total waste of money & resources. We will stick to the Vishal-class as the basic platforms, but each successive ship in the class will bring electronic/systems upgrades.

Looks that you didn't notice the actual reason of acquiring foreign tech.
We have already made INS Vikrant
We can develop carriers further on that base but why we are acquiring?
Answer:

India needs EMALs which Russia can't give us. So, we stick to US for INS Vishal. Now, US has openly denied from giving any help in nuclear propulsion.
So, Russia's P23000E was involved by Navy to expertise Nuclear Propulsion in carriers.
Simply,
Our Carrier fleet in 2040:

INS Vikramaditya
INS Vikrant
INS Vishal (with EMALs)
INS ??? based on P23000E(nuclear without EMALs)

INS ???(indigenous carrier with integration of both nuclear and EMAL, comparable to US Carriers)


INS ???(not sure, could become a more advanced version of that. I think will be made if time slot is left).

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Germany based Atlas Electronik in India

We Are Looking at Building a Coalition of Partners in India: Khalil Rahman

Germany is participating in the Indian Navy’s efforts to equip itself against threats from the Chinese as well as Pakistani submarines in the Indian Ocean. Germany-based Atlas Elektronik is participating in Indian Navy’s key upgrade programs for its existing surface and underwater target torpedoes and will be delivering active towed array sonars. Atlas Elektronik, which set up a wholly-owned subsidiary in India in 2013, has so far won the two medium-sized contracts including the upgrade of 64 SUT (surface and underwater target) torpedoes and for supplying six Active Towed Array Sonars (ATAS). Huma Siddiqui spoke with Khalil Rahman, CEO, Atlas Elektronik India. Excerpts:

Your company has been working with the Indian Navy—how do you now plan to be part of our Prime Minister’s Make In India & Skill India initiatives?

Make in India campaign is a right step towards boosting India’s manufacturing sector. It is no secret that the Indian government wants to create a large indigenous manufacturing base in the country. One of our aims in the country is to develop an indigenous solution in different areas, which enables us to compete in the Indian market. Atlas’s strategy of expanding its industrial footprint in India is in line with the Indian government’s Make in India policy.

Atlas Elektronik India is looking at building a coalition of partners in India that will include both the public sector and the private sector, the shipyards and indeed organizations like DRDO to help the Indian industry to develop localized solutions or solutions that are adapted to the needs of the Indian market.

Which are the programs you are involved in?

Atlas Elektronik GmbH is looking forward to compete on some of the ambitious Indian navy programs in the areas of sonars and torpedoes apart from the long-term expansion programs.

The MCM program with 12 ships to be built by GSL is of particular interest to Atlas Elektronik. Atlas is one of the global leaders in Mince Counter Measures and have supplied our equipment to various Navies, even where an Indigenous capability exists. (Eg USA, Sweden).

In the ASW area we will be bidding for the buy and make Indian program of IADS. This which is an anti-submarine warfare (ASW) suite consisting of a sonar, a decoy and a fire control system, it will equip P15B and P17A ships. The RFP is not yet released, but is expected soon, according to the Navy.

We are also bidding for 16 shallow watercraft. Atlas Elektronik has provided offers for the sonar systems for 16 shallow water ASW craft to the various Indian Shipyards that are bidding for the project. Each of these 16 ships will be equipped with a hull mounted sonar and low frequency variable depth sonar (LFVDS). This is a specialized ASW craft designed to operate in littoral waters. The project is undergoing and we the Indian Navy will be undertaking trials shortly.

What opportunities do you see for Atlas Elektronik in India?

ATLAS is focusing on the long-term torpedo market and is working towards producing an indigenized version of the Sea-Hake In conjunction with Indian public and private entities, Atlas Elektronik will be happy to offer the Indian Navy an indigenized heavy weight Torpedo.

Besides, AE invests heavily in R&D. Some of the latest developments include the new ISUS 100 integrated Submarine suite and Mine Counter Measure Systems. AE is the undisputed technology and world market leader in command and weapon control systems for non-nuclear submarines. Our “Integrated Sensor Underwater System” (ISUS®) is based on many years of experience and can easily be adapted to suit individual customer requirements and diverse operational scenarios. It enables the submarine crew to fully perceive their surroundings and to analyse the situation in detail, permitting a rapid and reliable response.

Have you identified any programs which could be produced jointly here in India?

We have various partnerships for “Buy and Make Indian programs” whereby the products will be produced in India. The Portable Diver Detection sonar and IADS are two examples. In the Torpedo our goal is the provision of an indigenous Heavy Weight Torpedo and in this regard we are talking to Indian Industry.

Source>>

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Fincantieri built FREMM "Virginio FASAN" Stealth Frigate for the Italian Navy
Construction of the first of the seven vessels expected to start early next year

Controlled by the Defence Ministry and specialised in the building of naval and offshore units, Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL) is to receive technical advice for Project 17A, which envisages the construction of seven stealth frigates ordered last year by the Indian Navy at two shipyards — MDL and Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE)

Four of the frigates would be built by MDL, and three by Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE). The agreement is expected to allow Fincantieri to establish long-term cooperation with the two shipyards and to consolidate its commercial presence in India. Project 17A is the follow-on of Project 17, which comprised three multi-role Shivalik class stealth frigates built at MDL between 2000 and 2010, for the Navy.

The follow-on project deals with the construction of seven frigates of 149 meters length each and a displacement of 6,400 tonnes.

Tech Transfer

Sources pointed out that the “basic and functional design has been developed by the Indian Navy. The ships will be built at MDL and GRSE, and Fincantieri will help modernise them. This would also involve a significant amount of transfer of technology from Fincantieri, with the creation of system advisors, that would be useful for other programmes.”

The construction of the first ship is expected to start early next year, and is expected to be launched by 2020, following an upgrade of the two shipyards to incorporate modular construction techniques.

Fincantieri is to assist with the development of detailed engineering aimed at integrated building in the two Indian shipyards, as well as design optimisation processes and modular construction, and undertake training and ongoing technical assistance.

The Italian shipbuilder has also bid for the construction of two mini submarines with Hindustan Shipyard.

Fincantieri has also reportedly participated in other tenders, which involve the construction of five new fleet tankers, and for the construction of multi-purpose vessels for the Navy.

At present, the firm is providing spares and systems maintenance for two fleet tankers that were handed over to the Navy.

Source>>

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Prasun K sengupta said this in his blog

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
Just got back from a hectic 5-day working-trip to Russia during which the following were visited:

JSC Rubin Central Marine Engineering Design Bureau (SKB-18) in St Petereburg
JSC Afrikantov Experimental Design Bureau for Mechanical Engineering (OKBM) Nizhny Novgorod
Izhorsky Zavod, at Kolpino, near St Petersburg & the Nizhny Novgorod Machine-Building Plant
Concern AVRORA Scientific and Production Association JSC in St Petersburg

The Ruskies are coming with a bang!!! The above-mentioned companies have frozen the design of a 4++ generation single-hulled SSN that Russia will be series-producing at the Amursky Yard (formerly shipyard No. 199) at Komosomolsk-na-Amur in the Far east. And this very SSN is most likely to be selected by the IN for series-producing by Larsen & Toubro at Kattupalli. This SSN will use several India-made sub-systems & components already on-board the S-2/Arihant, meaning the 2,500-odd Indian OEMs who are already certified to produce Russia-IPR-owned sub-systems & components will be able to do the same for the SSNs as well, thereby resulting in significant cost-savings. The Integrated PWR will have life of 36 years & will be rated at 45mW Thermal. Submerged displacement of this SSN will be close to 5,000 tonnes. All-electric propulsion system will be used, thereby doing away with clutches, reduction gear & transmission coupling for the propeller. It will be qualified to launched both 533mm torpedoes & BrahMos-NG ASCMs from torpedo-tubes. If the Govt of India later this year inks this landmark deal, then the Russian OEMs will immediately start sending the detailed design drawings done with Dassault's CATIA software CAD software to L & T, which in turn will commence a virtual design of this SSN at its virtual-reality submarine design facility.

In addition, all R & D work has been completed by OKBM on a 175mW Thermal Integrated PWR & all-electric propulsion system that will be offered for the IAC-2 project.

Will resume blogging later today after catching up on some urgently-need sleep.

Meanwhile, all those 'desi' pubby/shubby/unni journalists spreading rumours about the IN leasing Project 885 Yasen-class or Project 971 Kashalot SSGNs, EAT SHIIIIIIIIITTTTTT!!!

March 23, 2016 at 5:26 AM

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
The older photo was that of a derivative of the Project 971B SSGN. The SSN has been designed by RUBIN. It will be hydrodynamically more sleeker & will externally resemble the Project 705 Lira Alfa-class SSN. But the new SSN will be lighter & sleeker as it will be single-hulled & it will have far greater automation features. For instance, it will have photonic masts (most probably from THALES) & no periscopes, which in turn eliminates the traditional helmsman, planesman, chief-of-the-watch and diving officer by combining them into two stations manned by only two officers. The 46mW Thermal 4th-generation PWR was tested way back in 2006 by RUBIN & OKBM & has since been considerably refined. It was originally developed to cater to the Russian Navy’s reqmt for a new-generation SSN that will protect the flanks of the Project 955 SSBNs as pure hunter-killers, leaving the Project 885 SSGNs nto focus exclusively on shadowing & targetting hostile carrier battle-groups. For it must be recalled that the former USSR always operated several types of third-generation SSNs, & the most prolific of them were the Project 671 Yorsh, Project 671RT Syomga & Project 671RTM Shchuka SSNs—all of which have been decommissioned & require replacements.

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
It will be spherical sonars for both SSNs as well as all other future warships of the IN as well. That's precisely why the cylindrical-array HUMSA is being rejected by the IN, which believes that the DRDO does not possess any expertise on spherical sonar R & D & all future sonar suites for warships b& submarines will be imported, most probably from France's THALES. Rubis has 48mW Thermal PWR. For running a 5,000-tonne SSN, 25mW Electric is all that's reqd.

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
No, such 20% rules don't apply because the overall power output in mWe depends on 1) the PWR's energy density , i.e. what combination of LEU & HEU is used to make up the fissile core; & 2) the thermal efficiency of the heat-exchanger. In fact, land-based reactor efficiency too is undergoing enhancements to super-thermal levels due to advances in heat-exchanger technologies. In any PWR for SSNs or SSGNs or SSBNs, the fissile core is n ever 100% HEU or 100% LEU. It is an optimum mixture of both depending on the thermal efficiency demands of the heat-exchanger. In other words, the most sensitive technology is not so much the PWR design, but the sophistication of the heat-exchanger.

March 23, 2016 at 10:27 PM

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
BTW, Larsen & Toubro's virtual-reality submarine design centre is in Gurgaon & has been operational since 2006. In fact, it was developed jointly with RUBIN.

March 24, 2016 at 3:15 AM

 

[abingdonboy]

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
Just got back from a hectic 5-day working-trip to Russia during which the following were visited:

JSC Rubin Central Marine Engineering Design Bureau (SKB-18) in St Petereburg
JSC Afrikantov Experimental Design Bureau for Mechanical Engineering (OKBM) Nizhny Novgorod
Izhorsky Zavod, at Kolpino, near St Petersburg & the Nizhny Novgorod Machine-Building Plant
Concern AVRORA Scientific and Production Association JSC in St Petersburg

The Ruskies are coming with a bang!!! The above-mentioned companies have frozen the design of a 4++ generation single-hulled SSN that Russia will be series-producing at the Amursky Yard (formerly shipyard No. 199) at Komosomolsk-na-Amur in the Far east. And this very SSN is most likely to be selected by the IN for series-producing by Larsen & Toubro at Kattupalli. This SSN will use several India-made sub-systems & components already on-board the S-2/Arihant, meaning the 2,500-odd Indian OEMs who are already certified to produce Russia-IPR-owned sub-systems & components will be able to do the same for the SSNs as well, thereby resulting in significant cost-savings. The Integrated PWR will have life of 36 years & will be rated at 45mW Thermal. Submerged displacement of this SSN will be close to 5,000 tonnes. All-electric propulsion system will be used, thereby doing away with clutches, reduction gear & transmission coupling for the propeller. It will be qualified to launched both 533mm torpedoes & BrahMos-NG ASCMs from torpedo-tubes. If the Govt of India later this year inks this landmark deal, then the Russian OEMs will immediately start sending the detailed design drawings done with Dassault's CATIA software CAD software to L & T, which in turn will commence a virtual design of this SSN at its virtual-reality submarine design facility

We'll see, so much speculation when it comes to Russia (S400, other SSN hull leases, Talwar frigate sale etc etc) but almost nothing translates into reality.

 

[Gessler]

Prasun K sengupta said this in his blog

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
Just got back from a hectic 5-day working-trip to Russia during which the following were visited:

JSC Rubin Central Marine Engineering Design Bureau (SKB-18) in St Petereburg
JSC Afrikantov Experimental Design Bureau for Mechanical Engineering (OKBM) Nizhny Novgorod
Izhorsky Zavod, at Kolpino, near St Petersburg & the Nizhny Novgorod Machine-Building Plant
Concern AVRORA Scientific and Production Association JSC in St Petersburg

The Ruskies are coming with a bang!!! The above-mentioned companies have frozen the design of a 4++ generation single-hulled SSN that Russia will be series-producing at the Amursky Yard (formerly shipyard No. 199) at Komosomolsk-na-Amur in the Far east. And this very SSN is most likely to be selected by the IN for series-producing by Larsen & Toubro at Kattupalli. This SSN will use several India-made sub-systems & components already on-board the S-2/Arihant, meaning the 2,500-odd Indian OEMs who are already certified to produce Russia-IPR-owned sub-systems & components will be able to do the same for the SSNs as well, thereby resulting in significant cost-savings. The Integrated PWR will have life of 36 years & will be rated at 45mW Thermal. Submerged displacement of this SSN will be close to 5,000 tonnes. All-electric propulsion system will be used, thereby doing away with clutches, reduction gear & transmission coupling for the propeller. It will be qualified to launched both 533mm torpedoes & BrahMos-NG ASCMs from torpedo-tubes. If the Govt of India later this year inks this landmark deal, then the Russian OEMs will immediately start sending the detailed design drawings done with Dassault's CATIA software CAD software to L & T, which in turn will commence a virtual design of this SSN at its virtual-reality submarine design facility.

In addition, all R & D work has been completed by OKBM on a 175mW Thermal Integrated PWR & all-electric propulsion system that will be offered for the IAC-2 project.

Will resume blogging later today after catching up on some urgently-need sleep.

Meanwhile, all those 'desi' pubby/shubby/unni journalists spreading rumours about the IN leasing Project 885 Yasen-class or Project 971 Kashalot SSGNs, EAT SHIIIIIIIIITTTTTT!!!

March 23, 2016 at 5:26 AM

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
The older photo was that of a derivative of the Project 971B SSGN. The SSN has been designed by RUBIN. It will be hydrodynamically more sleeker & will externally resemble the Project 705 Lira Alfa-class SSN. But the new SSN will be lighter & sleeker as it will be single-hulled & it will have far greater automation features. For instance, it will have photonic masts (most probably from THALES) & no periscopes, which in turn eliminates the traditional helmsman, planesman, chief-of-the-watch and diving officer by combining them into two stations manned by only two officers. The 46mW Thermal 4th-generation PWR was tested way back in 2006 by RUBIN & OKBM & has since been considerably refined. It was originally developed to cater to the Russian Navy’s reqmt for a new-generation SSN that will protect the flanks of the Project 955 SSBNs as pure hunter-killers, leaving the Project 885 SSGNs nto focus exclusively on shadowing & targetting hostile carrier battle-groups. For it must be recalled that the former USSR always operated several types of third-generation SSNs, & the most prolific of them were the Project 671 Yorsh, Project 671RT Syomga & Project 671RTM Shchuka SSNs—all of which have been decommissioned & require replacements.

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
It will be spherical sonars for both SSNs as well as all other future warships of the IN as well. That's precisely why the cylindrical-array HUMSA is being rejected by the IN, which believes that the DRDO does not possess any expertise on spherical sonar R & D & all future sonar suites for warships b& submarines will be imported, most probably from France's THALES. Rubis has 48mW Thermal PWR. For running a 5,000-tonne SSN, 25mW Electric is all that's reqd.

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
No, such 20% rules don't apply because the overall power output in mWe depends on 1) the PWR's energy density , i.e. what combination of LEU & HEU is used to make up the fissile core; & 2) the thermal efficiency of the heat-exchanger. In fact, land-based reactor efficiency too is undergoing enhancements to super-thermal levels due to advances in heat-exchanger technologies. In any PWR for SSNs or SSGNs or SSBNs, the fissile core is n ever 100% HEU or 100% LEU. It is an optimum mixture of both depending on the thermal efficiency demands of the heat-exchanger. In other words, the most sensitive technology is not so much the PWR design, but the sophistication of the heat-exchanger.

March 23, 2016 at 10:27 PM

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
BTW, Larsen & Toubro's virtual-reality submarine design centre is in Gurgaon & has been operational since 2006. In fact, it was developed jointly with RUBIN.

March 24, 2016 at 3:15 AM

Yes, I read his views. I was actually reading up about Photonics mast projects from THALES and others and I must say this tech could be one of the steps to revolutionize Indian Navy's undersea war-fighting doctrines. Together with new spherical sonars and propulsion setups (pump-jets).

These are equipment now being implemented on the USN's leading submarine fleets like the Virginia-class. As far as integrated electronic suites for the Navy go, another space we have to watch is the probability of an integrated mast on the IN's projected future Project-18 destroyer. To be frank I'm disappointed the P-17A and P-15B won't be coming with something like this already. But oh well the MF-STAR in it's present guise is awesome enough for now I guess.

 

[Anupu]

Yes, I read his views. I was actually reading up about Photonics mast projects from THALES and others and I must say this tech could be one of the steps to revolutionize Indian Navy's undersea war-fighting doctrines. Together with new spherical sonars and propulsion setups (pump-jets).

These are equipment now being implemented on the USN's leading submarine fleets like the Virginia-class. As far as integrated electronic suites for the Navy go, another space we have to watch is the probability of an integrated mast on the IN's projected future Project-18 destroyer. To be frank I'm disappointed the P-17A and P-15B won't be coming with something like this already. But oh well the MF-STAR in it's present guise is awesome enough for now I guess.

So there won't be an Integrated Mast on P-17 A. I thought you agreed with the pic I showed yesterday.

 

[Gessler]

So there won't be an Integrated Mast on P-17 A. I thought you agreed with the pic I showed yesterday.

The P-17A will have two separate masts, the front one with the MF-STAR and the rear one with whatever 3-D volumn search radar is selected, most likely Selex RAN-40L. The artist impression you showed was accurate in that regard.

But for IN, an ideal integrated mast would have both the fire-control radar and the volumn-search radar within a single structure assembly, like this;

^^ Such a setup would eliminate the need to have two masts, greatly reducing the ship's signature, also saving a lot of space. The reason why they could not be implemented earlier is probably because as of now there are no such integrated mast offerings with the MFSTAR radar. Hopefully in the next 5 years, more solutions will be available.