Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[cobra commando]

DAC also extended the AON granted in 2012 for four large survey vessels for the navy worth Rs 2,324 crore. The extension has been granted to pave the way for RFP under the ‘ Make in India’ initiative.Also approved by DAC was 23 Combat Management Systems for the navy, for installation on smaller ships, at a cost of Rs 624 crore. Other proposals cleared for the navy included Brahmos Training Facility for Rs 30 crore, replacement of radars for Kora class missile boats for Rs 440 crore, new data transmission and storage system for Delhi class ships for Rs 260 crore and Air Combat Manoeuvring System for MiG-29 and Hawks for Rs 200 crore. Another proposal, for (radio- frequency identification) RFID access across all naval assets, was cleared at Rs 400 crore.

http://www.financialexpress.com/art...-30000-cr-including-4-more-p81-aircrafts-guns

 

[cobra commando]

Biggest warship project: Russia selects Anil Ambani's Pipavav to make frigates for Indian Navy

 

[rohit b3]

Biggest warship project: Russia selects Anil Ambani's Pipavav to make frigates for Indian Navy

Utter stupidty. The Russian economy seems to be collapsing and we are always there to bail them out.
Why couldn Pipavav build 2-3 Shivalik Class Frigates with technology transfer from MDL , or 2-3 more Kamorta Class Corvettes with T-o-T from GRSE?
Or even better, order 3 additional Project 17A Frigates, MDL builds 4, GRSE 3 as ordered, and additional 2-3 at Pipavav.
Why only Russian Frigates, out of all these Indian options. Utter disgrace.

 

[Zebra]

Utter stupidty. The Russian economy seems to be collapsing and we are always there to bail them out.
Why couldn Pipavav build 2-3 Shivalik Class Frigates with technology transfer from MDL , or 2-3 more Kamorta Class Corvettes with T-o-T from GRSE?
Or even better, order 3 additional Project 17A Frigates, MDL builds 4, GRSE 3 as ordered, and additional 2-3 at Pipavav.
Why only Russian Frigates, out of all these Indian options. Utter disgrace.

That is Indian Politicians.

NDA also suffers from (Russian) khujli , just like UPA .

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

Utter stupidty. The Russian economy seems to be collapsing and we are always there to bail them out.
Why couldn Pipavav build 2-3 Shivalik Class Frigates with technology transfer from MDL , or 2-3 more Kamorta Class Corvettes with T-o-T from GRSE?
Or even better, order 3 additional Project 17A Frigates, MDL builds 4, GRSE 3 as ordered, and additional 2-3 at Pipavav.
Why only Russian Frigates, out of all these Indian options. Utter disgrace.

Russians are helping us in nuclear submarines, Fifth generation fighters , Brahmos missiles etc. Do you think any other country would have given something like this to India? So as a friend they want something in return for their defence industry. Also Russians (a permanent member of UNSC) is supporting India internationally.

This is politics dude!!!!......................

 

[blueblood]

So according to this news, Talwar class and P-17A will cost the same ie $1 billion.

I hope some sense prevails in MOD.

 

[SajeevJino]

So according to this news, Talwar class and P-17A will cost the same ie $1 billion.

I hope some sense prevails in MOD.

damn then why the hell we need to go for older version Frigates..

Modern P 17 A uses Indian and Israeli systems and VLS Barak 8 and Brahmos

 

[Yumdoot]

I don't think this has anything to do with politics. There are a bunch of things that I can see happening:

1) Anil Ambani is a driver. His weakness was his comparative flyweight in politics unlike his brother who was thick with the Petroleum and Finance Ministers in the UPA. But despite adversity he has proven himself a survivalist. People do not realize the importance of having a Business Promoter in big ticket items. Somebody to drive the things along. Who will take the brickbats too and be answerable. Committee styled so called professional Boards are useless for making big things.

2) Talwars are the medium sized vessels that we actually need more than:
a) the bigger destroyer sized ships which cannot give proper coverage of large oceans; and/or
b) the smaller vessels that do not have the range and armament to do the damage.
More count of medium classed ships will give better balance of presence on the chessboard and inter vessel coordination. I suspect there is a revision of the way the Indian Navy is going to approach things in future.

3) The money will be spent in India for the hull and integration. Brahmos too will need orders. The Kaveri Marine will require a suitable gearbox transmission too.

4) A suitable naval sensor suite is not made in India currently. Just a Revathi and a solitary IR sensor does not cuts it in terms of Naval sensor suit. So from that point of view it hardly matters where the sensors are sourced from, if they work all right.

5) We have a lot of vessels in this class that will in near future require a SAM replacement and Barak may not be put on these smaller vessels. So again where this gets sourced from, does not matter.

6) Perhaps just perhaps a Dhruv based helo may get a second life in the IN, considering the smaller size. The bigger helos may have to be reserved for the bigger Visakhapatanam class vessels.

 

[blueblood]

damn then why the hell we need to go for older version Frigates..

Modern P 17 A uses Indian and Israeli systems and VLS Barak 8 and Brahmos

Because someone might be getting shit load of money from chota Ambani.

 

[The enlightened]

Russians are helping us in nuclear submarines, Fifth generation fighters , Brahmos missiles etc. Do you think any other country would have given something like this to India? So as a friend they want something in return for their defence industry. Also Russians (a permanent member of UNSC) is supporting India internationally.

This is politics dude!!!!......................

What help? Everything costs money. Countries who want serious nuclear submarines build it themselves coz it is sensitive technology. Russia had one rusting, submarine hull and a shipyard without orders so they 'leased' it to India for 10 years at the cost of building a brand new submarine. FGFA we already know how well that's going with zero participation of India in PAK-FA so far. They only involved India to get $5 billion dollars (at least) in development costs and to later sell it to India with their development costs included.
Russia is not a 'friend'. Its a business partner. Stop falling for this propaganda.

 

[nirranj]

The last UPA govt and NDA govts made it clear that the last foreign manufactured naval vessel that Indian navy will buy is the INS Vikramadithya. And the Navy made it mandatory that it will build all its future vessels in Indian shipyards. Under this guidance India started to design and manufacture heavy warships in india. Till date we have manufactured 18 vessels of six different types from year 2000 with total tonnage of 90,000 tonnes. And currently the planners, designers and builders are working on more than 40 capital warships of different types with a projected combined tonnage of more than 2,00,000 tonnes. The vision is to have a navy with 200 ships incliding 150 capital warships.

With such a capacity to design, develop and manufacture capital warships in India, the logic on the news in media that India may buy 3-4 stealth frigates (we already operate six such multi mission capable ships purchased from Russia, with the last one inducted in 2013 being touted as the last of the naval vessels ordered and built from abroad) from Russia perplexes one with the short sightedness being showcased by the people in decision making. Instead we should have expedited the plan to build four follow on stealth frigates proposed after the project 17. These proposed project 17A (~7000 tonne stealth multi mission capable vessels. much larger, capable and lethal than the Russian ships) will be modular built, meaning the lead time to deliver these vessels will be very less compared to their predecessors, also meaning a leapfrog for Indian shipyards in terms of manufacturing capability.

Even if those Russian vessels will be built in India, it is still not worthy to go foreign design when our designers are similarly capable. Also these vessels will not be built from scratch. Russia jumped with this offer after Ukraine denied to deliver the engines and transmission equipment for the ships that Russia is already building for its navy. So we will be getting half built warships from Russia which some Indian private shipyard will be completing.

I cannot say what thinking is beyond this. India is not going to wage war in near to extended future. We have just signed into Shanghai cooperation organization led by China and shook hands with China to legitimize the name sake BRICS forum into a development Bank. Pakistan is nothing to our existing capabilities. Instead the money (more than one billion per ship) can be invested to design and build more ships within India. Hope navy gets what it wants for keeping us safe.

 

[salute]

The last UPA govt and NDA govts made it clear that the last foreign manufactured naval vessel that Indian navy will buy is the INS Vikramadithya.

upa govt. bullsh*t,
what else they gonna say ???
they built ships in india if they built any ship.

 

[cobra commando]

India specifies 65,000-tonne aircraft carrier, with catapult

 

[blueblood]

Brits are desperately looking for a partner for their GCS project. You can get much better design, better armaments and quality for half the price of an improved Talwar class.

 

[nirranj]

upa govt. bullsh*t,
what else they gonna say ???
they built ships in india if they built any ship.

//The last UPA govt and NDA govts made it clear that the last foreign manufactured naval vessel that Indian navy will buy is the INS Vikramadithya.//

First, I didn't say it was UPA alone. I mentioned NDA too.

Second in the past 15 years we have built these many big ships,

shivalik class (project 17) - three 6200 tonne stealth frigates,
Kolkata class (project 15A) -three 7500 tonne stealth destroyers,
kamorta class (project 28) four 4000 tonne Anti submarine warfare stealth corvettes,
Shardul class - Three 4000 tonne landing ship tanks - ,
Saryu class - four 2300 tonne Offshore patrol vessels.
Arihant class - one 6000-7000 tonne nuclear powered ballistic missile submarine.

This 15 years from 2000 to 2015 include both UPA and NDA.

 

[Yumdoot]

I wish the second carrier is Nuke based CATOBAR.

An IN admiral had mentioned that EMALS consume 3 times the electricity. That would a terrible waste on a 65000 tonne vessel.

Probably also the reason USN has EMALS on the bigger Gerald Ford class and the recent Russian planned Carrier also seemed a much bigger vessel capable of launching 4 aircrafts at one time.

 

[Pulkit]

I wish the second carrier is Nuke based CATOBAR.

An IN admiral had mentioned that EMALS consume 3 times the electricity. That would a terrible waste on a 65000 tonne vessel.

Probably also the reason USN has EMALS on the bigger Gerald Ford class and the recent Russian planned Carrier also seemed a much bigger vessel capable of launching 4 aircrafts at one time.

I had wished INS Vishal to be similar to INS Vikrant the only difference would have been the increased Size i.e. displacement.

This would have prevented delays due to significant change in design and would have saved a lot of man hours and dollars.

 

[Yumdoot]

I had wished INS Vishal to be similar to INS Vikrant the only difference would have been the increased Size i.e. displacement.

This would have prevented delays due to significant change in design and would have saved a lot of man hours and dollars.

Actually the admiral I mentioned also was not sure of the nuclear powered vessel saying you still require a supply ship to run along to a CBG. Which is not an empty argument

My guess was that the high launch rate will require a CATOBAR and only sensible way to power up the CATOBAR would be nuclear power. Else with Diesel power CATOBARs, you will have to waste a lot of fuel merely launching aircrafts without going anywhere, to that extent of that extra fuel use.

Regards STOBAR Vikrant - that too is a good idea since it is going to be cheaper and will not as such require a nuclear power, which for this class of ship is going to be very difficult to achieve. Almost as painful as the ATV nuclear plant. There would a launch rate penalty but then you can afford two STOBARs for the price of one serious nuke powered CATOBAR (as the Brits learnt, who I don't like but concede, are not idiots proper). Since the need of the hour is to have 200 vessels running by 2027, this diesel powered STOBAR config, too is not without its benefits. Its not like we will have Chinese focusing mainly in the IOR even in next 10-15 years. Chinese will remain busy with north Pacific, mostly.

 

[Zebra]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ates-for-indian-navy/articleshow/48091024.cms

Indian Navy doesn't like one of these....?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formidable-class_frigate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEKO_200

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Álvaro_de_Bazán-class_frigate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Zeven_Provinciën-class_frigate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fridtjof_Nansen-class_frigate

 

[Pulkit]

Actually the admiral I mentioned also was not sure of the nuclear powered vessel saying you still require a supply ship to run along to a CBG. Which is not an empty argument.

It will be nuclear powered that's for sure.
They will not be going backwards I believe.
It will be costly but it has its own advantages.

My guess was that the high launch rate will require a CATOBAR and only sensible way to power up the CATOBAR would be nuclear power. Else with Diesel power CATOBARs, you will have to waste a lot of fuel merely launching aircrafts without going anywhere, to that extent of that extra fuel use.

Yes Fuel is one of the factors but the technology is a bigger issues here. Cost is going to be huge.

Regards STOBAR Vikrant - that too is a good idea since it is going to be cheaper and will not as such require a nuclear power, which for this class of ship is going to be very difficult to achieve. Almost as painful as the ATV nuclear plant. There would a launch rate penalty but then you can afford two STOBARs for the price of one serious nuke powered CATOBAR (as the Brits learnt, who I don't like but concede, are not idiots proper). Since the need of the hour is to have 200 vessels running by 2027, this diesel powered STOBAR config, too is not without its benefits. Its not like we will have Chinese focusing mainly in the IOR even in next 10-15 years. Chinese will remain busy with north Pacific, mostly.

As I have stated above I would have liked IN to keep it simple and should have made bigger plans for the next ship.