Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Arjun Mk1A]

We should have an upgrade package for this class with more Indian systems. In the current environment depending on the Russian supply chain for spares and consumables is very risky.

Once we got all Talwars most of the Mid life Upgrades will have lot of Indian Subsystems hopefully. Let us grab those ships for now.

 

[abingdonboy]

The russians just have an excellent sense of timing, offering the 1135.6s right when we did not have sufficient domestic yard capability to have 2 concurrent ship designs under construction simultaneously.
At any rate, this is the last russian ship in service - and they'll provide an excellent second rate frigate alongside the 3 Brahmaputras.

The industrial part of this never made sense to me. Overtly they said this deal will help build up GSL’s capacity and give india another yard capable of making PSC but

1) the IN is already unwilling to give existing private (L&T) yards contracts for PSC so capacity is already being wasted
2) why could GSL not be contracted to build 2-4 P17A? What was the imperative for it to be a foreign frigate built locally?

11356 and the FSS tie up with Turkish entities has only ever stunk

 

[abingdonboy]

There goes to members who were teasing those for saying porkies are upgrading their navy to a upper level and increasing threat for our Navy and they are infact acting better than their air force and army
And China is paying and will pay every penny for it to counter IN as that force is their biggest enemy in their conquest of world
I even said that pakis will further strengthen their Navy by adding few more ship
Won't be surprised if pokies get type 52 c or d variant
Money is never a factor for them its China ready to pay whatever it can to destroy us
Even our chief is concern about their modernization
It's a complete Chinese game

Chinese will try to tie India down at the land borders and to its coast using the PN

frankly I haven’t seen much indication that the Indian strategic establishment is trying to counter this, they seem to be playing along perfectly with Chinese intentions.

a strong IN is the greatest threat to the commies’ strategic objectives, the land dominant mindset of Indian planners will keep this crippled

 

[abingdonboy]

Talwar deal is one of the best deal for the navy, only issue is single arm launcher for sam.
If you are considering recent 4 talwar deal, its not just about buying 4 boats, but tot for building ships in GSL, its like rebuilding & recreating experienced workforce in GSL, like HSL that's why current deal is very expensive.
Its a political decision to fulfil the dream of Manohar Parrikar to rebuild and modernisation GSL, and after the collapse of MCMV, GoI asked Russian help.
Last 2 ships comes with vls & its not about IN, but keeping GSL in a good shape.

The only way GSL was going to be built up was getting Russian help? This is some whacked up socialist thinking from the 1960s

L&T could make the largest commercial shipyard in the world if they needed to

As I said above, GSL could’ve got P17As to build if the idea is giving them capacity

 

[johnj]

The only way GSL was going to be built up was getting Russian help? This is some whacked up socialist thinking from the 1960s

L&T could make the largest commercial shipyard in the world if they needed to

As I said above, GSL could’ve got P17As to build if the idea is giving them capacity

May be or may be not, its hard to say
GSL case is similar to HSL, uncertain future, selloff or shutdown like condition & GOI asked Russian help, they converted HSL into kilo class MRO yard, and capable of building kilo or other Russian sub with tot, now HSL building nuke subs with initial Russian help.[HSL & MDL capable/having infra for building ssk]
GoI selected SK yard to rebuild GSL, but deal failed due to low tot, due to this GoI approached Russia
Yes, what you're written is true & socialist thinking is super active today.

 

[blackleaf]

May be or may be not, its hard to say
GSL case is similar to HSL, uncertain future, selloff or shutdown like condition & GOI asked Russian help, they converted HSL into kilo class MRO yard, and capable of building kilo or other Russian sub with tot, now HSL building nuke subs with initial Russian help.[HSL & MDL capable/having infra for building ssk]
GoI selected SK yard to rebuild GSL, but deal failed due to low tot, due to this GoI approached Russia
Yes, what you're written is true & socialist thinking is super active today.

If they wanted foreign help then Russia is not the country to approach. Russian shipyards are not very good. They take 10 years to build a 5,000 ton frigate. Even MDL can do better.
On the other hand SK, Japanese and some European shipyards are world-class and their assistance could have been useful.

 

[abingdonboy]

May be or may be not, its hard to say
GSL case is similar to HSL, uncertain future, selloff or shutdown like condition & GOI asked Russian help, they converted HSL into kilo class MRO yard, and capable of building kilo or other Russian sub with tot, now HSL building nuke subs with initial Russian help.[HSL & MDL capable/having infra for building ssk]
GoI selected SK yard to rebuild GSL, but deal failed due to low tot, due to this GoI approached Russia
Yes, what you're written is true & socialist thinking is super active today.

I get the logic but it’s completely out of touch with the times. There’s ample experience and expertise within india to build up a shipyard without foreign hand holding especially for vessels as out of date as these, ‘ToT’ what is actually cutting edge that could be transferred that isn’t already present on ships being made in india already?

MDL and CSL have substantially expanded especially with commercial shipping in mind, this GSL plan is literally something straight from Nehruivian india pre-1992.

And the L&T case makes this whole thing a farce, all the investment they’ve made just for this nonsense to occur.

in 2018 the 11356 deal made no sense but where Russia is concerned india seems uniquely compromised and willing to accept any cr@p they push. I’m still waiting for the KA-226 ‘emergency’ procurement

 

[johnj]

If they wanted foreign help then Russia is not the country to approach. Russian shipyards are not very good. They take 10 years to build a 5,000 ton frigate. Even MDL can do better.
On the other hand SK, Japanese and some European shipyards are world-class and their assistance could have been useful.

SK - failed, google minesweeper deal with them.
Japanese - very very expensive & unproven
European :
Germany - sanction fear,
French - failed to meet expectations, low tot, expensive
Italy - a good & proven partner, helped many times and consultant in p17a but under sanctions
UK & US - sanction fear
Turkey - FSS is stuck
China - not going to happen

But MDL, CSL ect can help if .... goi wanted, but choose Russia

 

[johnj]

I get the logic but it’s completely out of touch with the times. There’s ample experience and expertise within india to build up a shipyard without foreign hand holding especially for vessels as out of date as these, ‘ToT’ what is actually cutting edge that could be transferred that isn’t already present on ships being made in india already?

MDL and CSL have substantially expanded especially with commercial shipping in mind, this GSL plan is literally something straight from Nehruivian india pre-1992.

And the L&T case makes this whole thing a farce, all the investment they’ve made just for this nonsense to occur.

in 2018 the 11356 deal made no sense but where Russia is concerned india seems uniquely compromised and willing to accept any cr@p they push. I’m still waiting for the KA-226 ‘emergency’ procurement

Yes, totally agree and true. This deal also bugging me.
MDL can provide tech and assistance for GSL . If GoI wanted foreign help, then why not Russian new MCMV .
-Ka-226, it stuck and its future is uncertain, its biggest issue is french engine, and Russia what India to approach French directly. I'm giving top importance to HAL LUH not ka226, HAL can use french dual engine if need- better to talk about ka 226/luh in their respective threads. -
Why IN not considering Russian new Mine countermeasure vessels or jv?

 

[Adm Kenobi]

2) why could GSL not be contracted to build 2-4 P17A?

Its shipbuilding facilities aren't big enough to build a >140m long frigate like P-17/A.
_____________________________________________________
The Navy needed another yard capable enough to make complex ships (OPVs don't come under this category), they could have gone the way of domestic TOT, for Kamorta, from GRSE. But IN did not need more Kamorta at the time and was looking to expand its frigate fleet, Russians coming at such a time and GoI/IN' willingness to accept such an offer made the deal go through. _____________________________________________________
Indian shipyards were capable of building two (or more) types of ship in their yard simultaneously at the time @binayak95

MDL and CSL have substantially expanded especially with commercial shipping in mind.

MDL hasn't modernised itself with commercial orders in mind, MDL' CMD has stated again and again that MDL is foremost a warship building yard & will remain so, they have only got some facilities for MRO of commercial ships.
CSL is a commercial yard under govt, not MoD.

 

[Joydeepghosh1976]

India Must Build Many XLUUVs to Protect SSBNs, Carriers, and Patrol Indian Ocean

India Must Build Many XLUUVs to Protect SSBNs, Carriers, and Patrol Indian Ocean

(sample image) India’s MoD has initiated a project to design and develop Extra Large Unmanned Underwater Vehicles (XLUUV) for Ind...

rbt-defense.blogspot.com

 

[Tuco]

India Must Build Many XLUUVs to Protect SSBNs, Carriers, and Patrol Indian Ocean

India Must Build Many XLUUVs to Protect SSBNs, Carriers, and Patrol Indian Ocean

(sample image) India’s MoD has initiated a project to design and develop Extra Large Unmanned Underwater Vehicles (XLUUV) for Ind...

rbt-defense.blogspot.com

After building the first one and commissioning it.

 

[Fatalis]

 

[AdminIgMp]

#BIG_UPDATE: Russia offers Kalibr long-range cruise missile and DRDO AIP equipped Amur-1650 class submarine to India under Project-75I !!! At a time when Germany is preparing to submit a detailed proposal to the Indian Navy about their offer of Dolphin-II class submarine under Project-75I program, Russia suddenly comes up from nowhere and offers Kalibr long range land attack cruise missile equipped Amur-1650 class submarines to Indian Navy, these vessels will be made in India with technology transfer

Read more...

BIG UPDATE: Russia Offers Kalibr Long Range Cruise Missile And DRDO AIP Equipped Amur-1650 Class Submarine To India Under Project-75I

Source : IDU BIG UPDATE: Russia offers Kalibr long range cruise missile and DRDO AIP equipped Amur-1650 class submarine to India under Project-75I

theigmp.org

 

[AdminIgMp]

IAC-II to host UCAVs and HALE class UAVs on its deck : Indian Navy Chief !!! Indigenous Aircraft Carrier - II or IAC-II or the 2nd Vikrant class Aircraft Carrier will undergo some design modifications to host Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicles (UCAVs) and HALE class UAVs on its deck...says Navy Chief Admiral R Hari Kumar !!!

Read more...

IAC-II To Host UCAVs And HALE Class UAVs On Its Deck : Indian Navy Chief

Source : IDU IAC-II to host UCAVs and HALE class UAVs on its deck : Indian Navy Chief

theigmp.org

 

[AdminIgMp]

Ministry of Defence Initiates Development Of Massive Armed XLUUV for the Indian Navy !!! - Naval News

XLUUV stands for Extra Large Unmanned Underwater Vehicles !!! These XLUUVs can conduct many types of underwater missions like manned submarines...!!!

Read more...

Ministry Of Defence Initiates Development Of Massive Armed XLUUV For The Indian Navy

Ministry of Defence Initiates Development Of Massive Armed XLUUV for the Indian Navy

theigmp.org

 

[Fatalis]

 

[Fatalis]

 

[pankaj nema]

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

The industrial part of this never made sense to me. Overtly they said this deal will help build up GSL’s capacity and give india another yard capable of making PSC but

1) the IN is already unwilling to give existing private (L&T) yards contracts for PSC so capacity is already being wasted
2) why could GSL not be contracted to build 2-4 P17A? What was the imperative for it to be a foreign frigate built locally?

11356 and the FSS tie up with Turkish entities has only ever stunk

GRSE is anyway subcontracting much of the work to L&T anyway. L&T would have significant war shipbuilding capacity in a few years. But again L&T should concentrate on commercial shipbuilding