Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

omaebakabaka

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The more I look into this carrier thing and the planes used, the more I’m convinced that we need to go for a carrier with a catapult or develop a VTOL plane capable of performing offensive roles with decent defensive capabilities. Otherwise it’s just a waste of money and resources that could have been better used in buying more P-8Is, Sea Guardians, submarines, destroyers frigates and corvettes. Even supply ships and LHD ships would be better than building another IAC-1. That’s the conclusion that the late CDS Rawat came to. He earlier realized that there was no way for India to finance 3 CBGs especially the catapult version given other defense needs that India had to fulfill.
We will end up with nothing on time or when we need them. Military needs stuff now and learn to fight with what we can get now while parallelly working on upgrade.
 

Love Charger

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What planes can we use on the Vikrant types? Mig-29k is next to useless. F-18SH is only marginally better and can only provide fleet defense, not offensive. To project that kind of power we either need to get F-35Bs or build carriers with catapult so we can gain offensive power.
Imagine 4 vikrant type ships with f 18 sh, will be tremendous.
No other nation, in our vicinity will operate such a powerful fleet.
 

Blademaster

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Imagine 4 vikrant type ships with f 18 sh, will be tremendous.
No other nation, in our vicinity will operate such a powerful fleet.
Ok then what is the loadout of the F-18 as it takes off from the Vikrant? Is it enough to sustain offensive operations or is it pretty much a one trick pony?

Based on that, I would only support going for another 2 Vikrant as long as it can be converted into helo carrier when we get the IAC-2 type carrier with catapults or we get a VTOL plane that can carry offensive power in addition to having missiles for defense.
 

scatterStorm

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yes, if we ramp up the complexity in the scenario, there will be a way to overwhelm the region.

here the basic question, is whether A&N command needs CBG to defend it.
CBG is for overwhelming your enemy.
Navy vs Navy is hard enigh add naval group that can deploy fighter jet is whole another headache.

AC forces the Pakis to be on a defensive if they have Brains.
Do not underestimate Pakis. What they lack in naval assets, they cover up using Chinese presence from there Chabahar. Chinese are also operating another port near Africa.

Over the time Pakis have learnt this and have now slowly inducting frigates or corvettes with anti-sub capabilities.
 

WolfPack86

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Navy Gives Private Firm First Defence Order For India Made Israeli Pistols
The Navy has placed an order with an Indian private firm, PLR Systems, for the supply of India-manufactured specialized Israeli Masada 9mm pistols for its elite commando unit. These will replace the current lot of 9 mm pistols in use with the naval commands or MARCOS. Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that this will be the first order placed by the defence forces with an Indian private firm.

The order for over 500 pistols has been placed with PLR Systems under fast-track procurement, sources added. PLR Systems is a joint venture with Israel Weapon Industries (IWI), which has been bought over by the Adani Group. The production factory is situated in Madhya Pradesh’s Gwalior. Sources said the delivery of these pistols, along with specialised kits and sights, will be completed early next year.

Why is it difficult to obtain orders
While this is the first defence contract for small arms given to a private firm, PLR is already supplying India-made rifles and pistols to central armed police forces (CAPF). The 56×45 mm chambered Tavor X 95, in use with the Special Forces and the CAPF, is already being manufactured in India and has been supplied to the Central Industrial Security Force (CISF). Under the joint venture, PLR System is also making other smalls arms like Galil sniper rifles and Uzi Pro submachine gun with indigenous content ranging from 40-60 per cent under transfer of technology.

As reported by ThePrint earlier, even though these systems are in use with the defence forces and manufacturing is taking place in India, fresh orders are hard to come by. This is because in case of a repeat order, the contract is sent to IWI directly instead of the local manufacturing unit. This happens because an order to the local manufacturing unit would mean a change in the name of the contracting firm. Under the procurement rules, this would be seen as a contract being given to a new company. This means that fresh trials will have to be held, even when it is the same rifle manufactured in India with a large indigenous component.
 

WolfPack86

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Rafale or Super Hornet: Indian Navy fast-tracks process of finalising fighter jets
The Indian Navy has fast-tracked the process of purchasing 26 fighter jets for its two aircraft carriers after evaluating the trial report of the two shortlisted contenders -- F/A 18 Super Hornet of Boeing and the Rafale of Dassault Aviation.

The Super Hornets are US-made while the Rafale is manufactured by France. The Navy needs 26 jets for the two aircraft carriers -- INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant.

The Navy has carried out trials of both the aircraft from its shore-based facility, INS Hansa in Goa, which is a replica of an aircraft carrier deck.

“The trial team submitted its report to the Naval headquarters recently after carrying out extensive trials at its Goa-based facility. The evaluation process is at an advanced stage and is expected to be completed very soon,” top government sources told India Today TV.

The two contenders in the tender have given extensive details of their planes to the Navy and all the issues would be taken into consideration before arriving at the plane to be shortlisted for the carrier-based operations, they said.

The jets are required for operations on the INS Vikrant aircraft carrier as the MiG-29s are found to be sufficient only for the operational readiness requirements of the first aircraft carrier, INS Vikramaditya, the sources added.

INS Vikrant is without an element of fighter aircraft as trials are supposed to be conducted by the end of this year. The Navy earlier required 57 planes for operations on both the carriers, but the requirement was cut short by more than half in support of indigenous planes.

The Navy is looking at getting the 26 aircraft within three years of the order being placed. Out of the 26, the Navy wants eight two-seaters for training purposes. However, the Rafale is a single-seater, while the Super Hornet comes in both configurations.

One advantage that the Super Hornet has over the Rafale is the foldable wings, which reduce its wing span from 44 feet to 30 feet, making it more flexible to be accommodated. The Super Hornet can carry four anti-ship missiles compared to one on the Rafale. The Super Hornet with a maximum take off weight is 29,900 kg, while the Rafale is 24,500 kg.

Sources said once the Navy zeroes in on the choice, it will likely be a government to government deal like the one for getting 36 Rafale jets for the Indian Air Force.
 

WolfPack86

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INDIAN NAVY EVALUATING TRIAL REPORT OF RAFALE, F-18 FOR USD 5 BILLION FIGHTER JET DEAL
New Delhi:
In the USD 5 billion tenders to buy 26 combat aircraft, the report of the extensive trials of the French Rafale and American F-18 planes is being evaluated by the Indian Navy headquarters.


The aircraft is planned to be acquired under a government-to-government deal by the Navy for operations from its latest aircraft carrier INS Vikrant commissioned recently by Prime Minister Narendra Modi in Kochi.

"The extensive trial was held by a naval team in Goa for both the fighter aircraft Rafale and F-18. The report is with the headquarters and is being eventuated for final shortlisting," l government sources told ANI.

The evaluation is to see whether the aircraft has met the technical specifications of the naval requirements or not, they said.

The American aircraft are built for carriers weighing around one lakh tonnes while the French Rafale is made for 60,000 tonne-size carriers.

The Navy has MiG-29Ks which operate from the INS Vikramaditya and also don't have a very strong serviceability record and their numbers are considered to be sufficient only for one carrier.

The trial report would determine the winner of the competition which was earlier planned for around 57 planes but now has been reduced to 26 only.

The last time these two planes took part in an Indian tender, the Rafale had emerged as a winner but that deal could not be completed due to technical issues.

However, based on the final selection of the previous deal, the government acquired 36 Rafales which played a big role during the deployment against china in eastern Ladakh and other areas.

The American side has been claiming that it has improved the performance and capabilities of the plane compared to the last competition saying that they have met all requirements of the Indian Navy.
 

jai jaganath

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If anyone can answer
Isn't kamorta class useless and extra expenditure
As it doesn't have any credible weapon capability
It doesn't even have AD for self defense
It was meant for anti submarine but is it equipped for neutralizing it
I mean it has only sensors and I personally don't have much knowledge about the sensor capabilities
If anyone can clear this misconception
 

Okabe Rintarou

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If anyone can answer
Isn't kamorta class useless and extra expenditure
As it doesn't have any credible weapon capability
It doesn't even have AD for self defense
It was meant for anti submarine but is it equipped for neutralizing it
I mean it has only sensors and I personally don't have much knowledge about the sensor capabilities
If anyone can clear this misconception
Kamorta class has low accoustic signature. Its got the task of screening a fleet from enemy submarine presence and its good at that job. This it can do with its hull mounted and towed sonar arrays as well as its onboard helicopter using sonar dipping. It can use onboard helicopter or its heavy torpedo tubes to launch torpedoes against detected submarines. Other than that, a VL-ASROC type system will greatly benefit it or maybe (just maybe) they are planning to fit SMART on it.
It has been built for but not with VL-SRSAM for Air Defence. Those will be installed during subsequent refits.
For the price of all four Kamorta class warships, you could instead have gotten a single Destroyer which while excelling at other tasks like anti-air and anti-surface warfare would have been only a quarter as strong as four Kamorta class corvettes in ASW. In fact, the reason any corvette exists is because you can build multiple of them for the cost of one general purpose destroyer or frigate.
 

johnj

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If anyone can answer
Isn't kamorta class useless and extra expenditure
As it doesn't have any credible weapon capability
It doesn't even have AD for self defense
It was meant for anti submarine but is it equipped for neutralizing it
I mean it has only sensors and I personally don't have much knowledge about the sensor capabilities
If anyone can clear this misconception
Currently kamorta class better than iac1.
The major issue was Advanced towed array sonar and ASW helio, which is adding to the boats currently.
For defence, low acoustic signature, EW suite, rbu 6000 & torpedo decoys[future] plus ak630m, 76mm srgm, vl sam[future] & offensive quad 533 mm torpedo tubes & new mh 60. Also autonomous underwater vehicle in future.
 

binayak95

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If anyone can answer
Isn't kamorta class useless and extra expenditure
As it doesn't have any credible weapon capability
It doesn't even have AD for self defense
It was meant for anti submarine but is it equipped for neutralizing it
I mean it has only sensors and I personally don't have much knowledge about the sensor capabilities
If anyone can clear this misconception
The Kamorta is the finest ASW ship.

Have you heard of the Petyas? Excellent ASW ships, except they lacked the tonnage necessary to sustain heavy seas, had poor endurance, and could never support helo ops. Had no helo deck nor hangar.

Kamorta has exactly the right acoustics, sensors and weapons, has a full hangar for a 10 tonne ASW helo (and a few UAVs), in a hull form that can go out to sea, sail through rough seas, and have endurance for extended missions hunting Subs.

All that without an ounce of mission creep. Making every ship capable of AD and Surface attack sounds like a capital idea, but defeats the purpose entirely. Mission creep would make the ship cramped, top heavy, compromise on stealth and acoustics, and you'd end up in a hot steaming mess like the LCS program. Cost escalations and ineffective.

And besides, the P28 class is already legendary for hunting down and hounding chinki SSNs out of Malabar exercises.

Its far far from useless. Its the best goddamn ASW ship we have in service
 

Okabe Rintarou

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The Kamorta is the finest ASW ship.

Have you heard of the Petyas? Excellent ASW ships, except they lacked the tonnage necessary to sustain heavy seas, had poor endurance, and could never support helo ops. Had no helo deck nor hangar.

Kamorta has exactly the right acoustics, sensors and weapons, has a full hangar for a 10 tonne ASW helo (and a few UAVs), in a hull form that can go out to sea, sail through rough seas, and have endurance for extended missions hunting Subs.

All that without an ounce of mission creep. Making every ship capable of AD and Surface attack sounds like a capital idea, but defeats the purpose entirely. Mission creep would make the ship cramped, top heavy, compromise on stealth and acoustics, and you'd end up in a hot steaming mess like the LCS program. Cost escalations and ineffective.

And besides, the P28 class is already legendary for hunting down and hounding chinki SSNs out of Malabar exercises.

Its far far from useless. Its the best goddamn ASW ship we have in service
Agreed. Just that adding VL-ASROC or maybe (wacky idea) SMART on it will make it even more effective IMHO. Actually, SMART is a bad idea because these ships would be providing ASW screen for the rest of the fleet and so they will encounter enemy submarines quite close to them, thereby making VL-ASROC much more useful than SMART given their role.
 

vampyrbladez

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If anyone can answer
Isn't kamorta class useless and extra expenditure
As it doesn't have any credible weapon capability
It doesn't even have AD for self defense
It was meant for anti submarine but is it equipped for neutralizing it
I mean it has only sensors and I personally don't have much knowledge about the sensor capabilities
If anyone can clear this misconception
Please read through this and educate yourself.





https://world-defense.com/threads/kamorta-class-analysis-of-india’s-deadly-anti-submarine-corvette.5342/

In the foreseeable future, we might have VL-SRSAM installed on this in 16x2 (32) format.
 

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