Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

Gessler

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
2,190
Likes
10,208
Country flag
I heard that Navy data links and SDRs are indigenous and manufactured by BEL. Does that mean that the entire CEC capbility was also developed indigenously? Or is it something that came with MF-STAR/Barak-8?
CEC has two basic components:

1) a high-bandwidth data-link system that can allow the sharing of radar track information in real-time
2) a combat management system capable of processing the inputs and allowing for distributed control (CMS on one ship operating weapons on another ship via secure protocols)

On the P15A, both these systems are indigenous. So yes, the CEC capability was developed indigenously.

The commonality of sensors & shooters (radars & weapons) across fleet helps in achieving this, but not something mandatory. I'm pretty sure we can do the same with a P15A and a Talwar as well...PROVIDED the CMS on Talwar is capable of above capacity, which I doubt it is.
 

gslv markIII

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Messages
998
Likes
7,444
Country flag
You are confusing Shivalik with Kolkata seems like.

Shivalik has no discernable lineage to Delhi class. Shivalik is extremely Western in terms of design, both inside & out.
Kolkata definitely should have a CEC. Would be happy if Shivalik happen to have it as well.

What you said about Shivalik is true (Even that hull is different from the British & Russian vessels we operated), but we definitely do have a penchant to mix the worse of Russian design influences to otherwise modern designs.

I had heard what I said about the Delhi's sometime back (can't find the source now) and thought the shift to modern western practices happened with the Kolkata class destroyer.
 

Gessler

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
2,190
Likes
10,208
Country flag
CEC has two basic components:

1) a high-bandwidth data-link system that can allow the sharing of radar track information in real-time
2) a combat management system capable of processing the inputs and allowing for distributed control (CMS on one ship operating weapons on another ship via secure protocols)

On the P15A, both these systems are indigenous. So yes, the CEC capability was developed indigenously.

The commonality of sensors & shooters (radars & weapons) across fleet helps in achieving this, but not something mandatory. I'm pretty sure we can do the same with a P15A and a Talwar as well...PROVIDED the CMS on Talwar is capable of above capacity, which I doubt it is.
So for now I'd guess CEC is limited to the following types:

P-15A DDG
P-15B DDG
P-17A FFG
P-71 carrier
 

Gessler

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
2,190
Likes
10,208
Country flag
Kolkata definitely should have a CEC. Would be happy if Shivalik happen to have it as well.

What you said about Shivalik is true (Even that hull is different from the British & Russian vessels we operated), but we definitely do have a penchant to mix the worse of Russian design influences to otherwise modern designs.

I had heard what I said about the Delhi's sometime back (can't find the source now) and thought the shift to modern western practices happened with the Kolkata class destroyer.
I'm willing to bet the P-17A will be in a league of its own in terms of design & capabilities, both hardware & software.

The P17 with Pielstick diesels & GE turbines was leaps & bounds ahead of P-15A's Ukrainian/Russian propulsion setup in terms of capability, maintainability and availability. It was let down by poor sensors & air-defence (Fregat radar & Shtil arm-launcher SAM).

P17A on the other hand will be superior even to P15B.

Goa built Talwars would have indigenous CMS, so they might be capable of the same.
Yes, though it will still be handicapped to a degree as it can only act as a Shooter, not as a Sensor (as its radar is very inferior to MFSTAR), meaning the targeting data will always have to come from a MFSTAR-equipped ship. The 9M317ME is also an inferior weapon compared to Barak-8.

1630253560299.png
 

UnderFingy

Regular Member
Joined
May 6, 2021
Messages
933
Likes
5,991
Country flag
Can someone explain why Indian shipbuilding is so slow compared to China? or even Korea?
 

Okabe Rintarou

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
1,537
Likes
7,346
Country flag
CEC has two basic components:

1) a high-bandwidth data-link system that can allow the sharing of radar track information in real-time
2) a combat management system capable of processing the inputs and allowing for distributed control (CMS on one ship operating weapons on another ship via secure protocols)

On the P15A, both these systems are indigenous. So yes, the CEC capability was developed indigenously.

The commonality of sensors & shooters (radars & weapons) across fleet helps in achieving this, but not something mandatory. I'm pretty sure we can do the same with a P15A and a Talwar as well...PROVIDED the CMS on Talwar is capable of above capacity, which I doubt it is.
But there needs to be an additional component: The firing solution computed by radar system of one ship needs to be something that makes sense for the other ship which will fire the missile. Do we have access to the MF-STAR's source code? If not, then it would mean that CEC will be limited to only the ships that use the MF-STAR. This might cause problems with NGD and NGF not having CEC capability with MF-STAR carrying ships.
 

Vamsi

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
841
Likes
4,448
Country flag
Only have pics of the Bridge of P15A & P17....not of CIC.

I don't believe it was ever revealed...even as a render.

Arihant's inside? Forget it...there are barely any good pics of the outside let alone inside lol.

+++

There was an incident back in 2014 when the PLAN Chief requested to be allowed inside the Shivalik's CIC, but was refused by IN brass.

I remember seeing a render of Arihant's CIC in this forum. Can't find it now
 

Haldilal

लड़ते लड़ते जीना है, लड़ते लड़ते मरना है
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
16,549
Likes
55,056
Country flag
Is PPP model adopted on this front?
Ya'll Nibbiars Private firms are at loosing end as they are unable to quote in the lowest bidder form. L & T lost most of the previous bid due to it's quoted pricings.
 
Last edited:

UnderFingy

Regular Member
Joined
May 6, 2021
Messages
933
Likes
5,991
Country flag
Ya'll Nibbiars Private firms are ar loosing end as they are unable to quote in the lowest bidder form. L & T lost most of the previous bid due to it's quoted pricings.
Someone needs to teach those babus the time value of money.
 

Haldilal

लड़ते लड़ते जीना है, लड़ते लड़ते मरना है
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
16,549
Likes
55,056
Country flag
Someone needs to teach those babus the time value of money.
Ya'll Nibbiars navy also had to constrain with extremely limited budget again. You can't modernize unless with a 100 billion dollars budget. Reducing the size is the liberandus agruments and show force. Maintaining the current size and increasing the budget is the only way forward.
 

Haldilal

लड़ते लड़ते जीना है, लड़ते लड़ते मरना है
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
16,549
Likes
55,056
Country flag
Ya'll Nibbiars Currently we 300 War ships to tackle the threat but the current budget of allows for 200 plus ships. Unless the Naval Budget is increased two times you can't have the Aircraft Carrier programmer and the Large scale Submarine building programmes at the same time.
 

Gessler

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
2,190
Likes
10,208
Country flag
But there needs to be an additional component: The firing solution computed by radar system of one ship needs to be something that makes sense for the other ship which will fire the missile. Do we have access to the MF-STAR's source code? If not, then it would mean that CEC will be limited to only the ships that use the MF-STAR. This might cause problems with NGD and NGF not having CEC capability with MF-STAR carrying ships.
The CMS takes care of that.

As long as the CMS is written by Indian companies, this should not be a problem. Meaning Batch-4 Talwar should be able make sense of targeting data processed & transmitted through P-15A CMS.
 

sorcerer

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
24,878
Likes
89,239
Country flag
Indian Navy inducts two ALH MK III helicopters
ANI |

2 minutes




Updated: Oct 30, 2021 09:16 IST
Mumbai (Maharashtra) [India], October 30 (ANI): The Indian Navy on Friday inducted two Advanced Light Helicopters (ALH) MK III into its 321 Flight at the naval helicopter base INS Shikra in Mumbai.



 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top