Indian Naval Aviation

icecoolben

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The indian navy chief has stated that the navy would operate 400 aircrafts in future by 2022. So, there is a high chance that fighter aircraft might have a share of their pie standing bt 100-120, the mig-29k has alreay cornered 45 of those, i expect naval tejas would make a good cut by atleast 40.

The role naval tejas truly fits is air defence, and it can perform this job impecably.
 

bengalraider

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Indian Navy's first four MiG-29K fighters arrive in knocked down condition
5 Dec 2009, 1747 hrs IST, IANS
NEW DELHI: The first four Russian-made Mig-29K fighters to be deployed on the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya, formerly the Admiral Gorshkov,
when it is inducted into the Indian Navy have been received in a knocked-down condition and will now be assembled in this country, an official said on Saturday.

The jets arrived in the country Dec 4, celebrated as Navy Day.

"The four jets, in a knocked down condition, were delivered yesterday (Friday) by an AN-132 aircraft. It will be a while before the jets are assembled and start flying," an Indian Navy official said but refused the divulge the present location of the aircraft.

The jets were purchased by the Indian Navy as part of a $1.5 billion deal signed with Russia in January 2004 for the Admiral Gorshkov. Of this $740 million was meant for the aircraft and the balance for the refitting of the carrier. The Russians have now upped the price to between $2.2 billion and $2.9 billion and negotiations on this are currently underway.

The navy will eventually be getting 12 MiG-29K single-seater aircraft and four MiG-29KUB twin-seat trainer aircraft, some in flyaway condition. The trainer version is similar to the single-seater but with a slightly reduced operational range.

The navy has named its MiG-29K squadron the "Black Panthers". As the 45,000 tonne Kiev class aircraft carrier, is scheduled to be delivered by 2012, the jets will undertake shore-based sorties from Goa.

The contract for the jets also stipulates the procurement of hardware for pilot training and aircraft maintenance, including flight simulators and interactive ground and sea-based training systems.

The navy's MiG-29Ks have arrester gear and stronger landing gear for carrier landings, folding wings and rust-proofing to prevent corrosion from salt water.

The aircraft features a fully digitised glass cockpit, improved engine protection against ingestion of foreign particles like birds, a multi-mode radar and increased range. The contract ensures that the navy gets the entire spectrum of services, including a full mission simulator.

The MiG-29K will provide aerial cover the carrier's battle group, acquire air superiority and destroy sea-borne and ground-based targets with guided high-precision weapons during the day and at night and in any weather conditions.

The aircraft, the first bought by the navy after the Sea Harriers, will also be capable of playing the role of a midair refueller.


Indian Navy's first four MiG-29K fighters arrive in knocked down condition- Politics/Nation-News-The Economic Times
 

bengalraider

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AU naval wing commemorate attack on Karachi harbour
TNN 5 December 2009, 01:56am IST
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-5301416,prtpage-1.cms

ALLAHABAD: To commemorate the victorious attack by the Indian Navy on Karachi Port during the 1971 Indo-Pakistan war, the naval wing, NCC, Allahabad University celebrated Navy Day at the Subhash Crossing in Civil Lines on Friday. The programme was organised under the aegis of NCC Group Headquarters, Allahabad. Allahabad University vice-chancellor Rajen Harshe, IG Surya Kumar Shukla and vice-chancellor of Rajarshi Tandon Open University Nageshwar Rao were the special guests.

An exhibition of ship models was held to portray different aspects of naval life and various models of Indian warships like INS Virat, Vindhyagiri, Ranvijay and INS Sujata, Brahmos missile, Amar Jawan Jyoti, posters and photographs on naval life, besides films on Indian Navy were on display.

Navy Day is an important day for the Indian navy. In early 1971, 8 new missile boats were commissioned into Indian Navy. The additions were kept a closely guarded secret in view of the eminent war with Pakistan. Strategies were being drawn at higher levels on the basis of lessons learnt during the 1965 war with Pak when the capacity of Indian Navy had not been exploited to the optimum level. A plan was drawn up for the missile boats to be towed by bigger ships to a point about 100 miles from Karachi by night fall from where they would `launch' an attack Karachi port and ships stationed en route. War broke out on December 3, 1971.

It was the deciding hour of war, when in order to cut the logistic and military support to East Pakistan, Indian Navy attacked Karachi Port in the mid-night and destroyed three Pakistan warships named as `Ghazi', `Khyber' and `Muhafiz' and severely damaged two other warships `Deka' and `Shahjehan 1'.

Kaemari 1 oil depot in Karachi went into flames which could not be extinguished for next seven days. This glorious moment of the history of Indian Navy is celebrated every year as Navy Day.

Allahabad NCC group headquarters decided to celebrate December 4 as a Victory Day. On this occasion, Subhash Crossing in Civil Lines was illuminated and a colourful display of fireworks was organised.

Lt Commander PK Ghosh of naval wing, NCC, Allahabad University said that though the day is celebrated with dignity on board warships and at Naval bases, Naval NCC Allahabad is the only NCC group in India which does the same. The day was celebrated under the supervision of Group Commander, NCC Headquarters, Allahabad, Col Kaushal Chaturvedi.

Capt Mahendra Nath Mulla, who belonged to Allahabad, sacrificed his life. He was rewarded Mahavir Chakra posthumously. When the enemy submarine Hangor torpedoed the INS Khukri, Capt. Mulla, helped in safe exit of as many personnel as possible and despite having all the opportunities to save his own life, he decided to go down with his ship and presented an example of service and supreme sacrifice. Captain Mulla was a part and important figure in all these operations. On December 5, one enemy ship was detected in Indian water and INS Khukri and INS Kripan were detailed for search and destroy mission under the leadership of INS Khukri Capt MN Mulla.

It was the fateful night of December 9, at 8:45 pm while on mission, Khukri was torpedoed by enemy ship and sank within minutes. But these few minutes were enough for Capt Mulla to establish himself as a pole star in the sky of martyrdom.

Capt Mulla himself pushed them into the sea, directing them to swim away. When one of them offered him the life jacket he said, "Go on save yourself and don't worry about me." In another event, even in such a stressful condition Capt. Mulla's humorous character came forward when the junior-most officer of the ship was looking at Capt Mulla just before sinking the ship and he said, "Bachchu Utro" (Little fellow get down). Capt Mulla was last seen calmly puffing on his cigarette and going down with his ship leaving behind an everlasting footprint on the sand of time.

Coming from a distinguished family of lawyers and judges of Allahabad, law ran in his blood and he was known as `Captain Mulla - The Flying Defence' because any sailor in trouble wanted him to defend him. His heart was full of sympathy for juniors and sailors whom he used to give support.

Lt Cdr Ghosh said that this commemoration is being dedicated to the masses for last five years. Purposefully, the selected place is Subhash Crossing because Subhash Chandra Bose himself was a cadet in his student life.
 

AJSINGH

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I agree tejas doesn't have the payload and range for strike capability even with external tanks. The mig-29k won't be able to accomplish this as well, as it too broadly falls into gripen, f-16, tejas, j-10 category. The indian navy might be looking at aircrafts like boeing f-18 e/f and dassalt rafale to augument this vital strike capability. The f-35 c is a bang for the buck though.
i would like to know why do you think Mig29K will not be capable for strike missions?
read the article,you may change your vies
incidently Mig29k happens to be as good as SH
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/naval-forces-navy/6116-mig-29k-wise-solution.html
 

SATISH

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I agree tejas doesn't have the payload and range for strike capability even with external tanks. The mig-29k won't be able to accomplish this as well, as it too broadly falls into gripen, f-16, tejas, j-10 category. The indian navy might be looking at aircrafts like boeing f-18 e/f and dassalt rafale to augument this vital strike capability. The f-35 c is a bang for the buck though.
The Tejas falls in the category of F 16 and Mig 29k?...wow..that is news to me. Yes the F 35 C is a bang for the buck but how long must we wait for it? The F 18 can take off form a STOBAR aircraft. But can it carry a decent payload? With a 800KM combat range I dont think N-LCA will be a bad maritime strike aircraft. The weight of Tejas is 10 tons but the other aircrafts fall under a 20 ton capability. Hence more aircrafts can be carried. If the EJ 200 or the Ge 414 is chosen it will give more thrust to the LCA. So I think the N-LCA will make a good maritime strike aircraft. The MiG 29 K can be used for Air Defence and the LCA role can be split for both strike and air defence. Or it can also be used as an MRCA. And as the other ADS is going to be CATOBAR perhaps the new bunch of aircrafts are for that ADS.
 

AJSINGH

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. Hence more aircrafts can be carried. If the EJ 200 or the Ge 414 is chosen it will give more thrust to the LCA. So I think the N-LCA will make a good maritime strike aircraft. The MiG 29 K can be used for Air Defence and the LCA role can be split for both strike and air defence. Or it can also be used as an MRCA. And as the other ADS is going to be CATOBAR perhaps the new bunch of aircrafts are for that ADS.
the weight of the aircraft does not matter ,what matter is the size of the aircraft on the deck of the AC,logically the smaller aircraft ,the lesser will be the weight but IN chose Mig29K over Su33 was because Mig29k was smaller , there is no doubt that NLCA is smaller than Mig 29k ,but NLCA wont be for strike role because Mig29K is better at that job,NLCA will be used for carrier defence and point defense, even in IAF LCA job is the same as what Mig21 has ( point defense)
 

SATISH

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the weight of the aircraft does not matter ,what matter is the size of the aircraft on the deck of the AC,logically the smaller aircraft ,the lesser will be the weight but IN chose Mig29K over Su33 was because Mig29k was smaller , there is no doubt that NLCA is smaller than Mig 29k ,but NLCA wont be for strike role because Mig29K is better at that job,NLCA will be used for carrier defence and point defense, even in IAF LCA job is the same as what Mig21 has ( point defense)
Weight of the aircraft dosent matter?...It does. That is why the F 18 was chosen and the F 14 was retired. The Navy is planning for a multi-dimensional capability for which the LCA is a good competitor. The combat payload with a TWR of more than 1.2 helps Tejas in this. Yes the MiG 29K is good but the LCA is a more capable aircraft and can offer the IAC and the Future ADS with more versatility and reliability. The LCA is a very capable maritime strike platform. LCA is no longer a Point defence aircraft. It is a Interceptor with secondary ground attack capability. That is how the IAF and IN envisage it right now.
 

AJSINGH

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Weight of the aircraft dosent matter?...It does. That is why the F 18 was chosen and the F 14 was retired. The Navy is planning for a multi-dimensional capability for which the LCA is a good competitor. The combat payload with a TWR of more than 1.2 helps Tejas in this. Yes the MiG 29K is good but the LCA is a more capable aircraft and can offer the IAC and the Future ADS with more versatility and reliability. The LCA is a very capable maritime strike platform. LCA is no longer a Point defence aircraft. It is a Interceptor with secondary ground attack capability. That is how the IAF and IN envisage it right now.
look F-18 was also samller than F-14 ,plus it was due to Russian Navy having Su-33 that scared yankees and looked for new solution (that is SH ) about thrust to weigh ratio it is 1.42 for Mig29k (so LCA lossed over there) plese dont tell me that our very own LCA is better than Mig29K in naval operations ( that is not at all true if you dont believe it plese read the following thread about Mig29K
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/naval-forces-navy/6116-mig-29k-wise-solution.html
the range of LCA,the payload capacity and the avionics are inferior to Mig29k ,not because those systems are not good ,but because they are not desgnied to replace Mig29K role in IN
if you dont believe that then why is IAF not replacing Mig29 with LCA because LCA is not supposed to be air superiority fighter ,it is good in point defence ,carrier defence and to some extent A2G missions
 

F-14

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look F-18 was also samller than F-14 ,plus it was due to Russian Navy having Su-33 that scared yankees and looked for new solution (that is SH )
AJji there is a diffrence the F-18 Block-I thur Block II served as MMRCA for the USN Development of the F/A-18 came as a result of the U.S. Navy's Naval Fighter-Attack, Experimental (VFAX) program to procure a multirole aircraft to replace the A-4 Skyhawk, the A-7 Corsair II, remaining F-4 Phantom IIs and to complement the F-14 Tomcat the Cat on the other hand was initiated when it became obvious that the weight and maneuverability issues plaguing the U.S. Navy variant of the Tactical Fighter Experimental (TFX) (F-111B) would not be resolved to the Navy's satisfaction. The Navy requirement was for a fleet air defense fighter (FADF) with the primary role of intercepting Soviet bombers before they could launch missiles against the carrier battle group

the above Mentioned point is Highlighted by this patch



(all credits to M.A.T.S)

and plus the Yankees were not scared sHit by by the Naval Flanker Both the Cat and the Su-33 belong to the same class

and plus the Super Bug came along due to buget cuts at the DoD not because the Cat was not a relieable platform Grumman even suggested a Massive Upgrade and Newbuild Program to make the cat a MMRCA the upgrades Included

AST21 (Attack Super Tomcat 21st Century). The AST21 is simply a more attack-oriented model of the ST21 and was thought to be an alternative for the navalized ATF. Modifications on the AST21 are nuclear weapons capability, bomb stores under the engine nacelles (normally used for external fuel tanks) and a FAC (Forward Air Controller) mode modification to the radar system. Also, the TCS and IRST would be made removeable to save weight in the air-to-ground role. If needed for air-to-air scenarios, they could be easily fitted and give the AST21 a full air-to-air suite.

Additional armoring for the crew area and an Integrated Defensive Avionics Package (IDAP) were planned for the AST21, too. And since bombs would generally be carried in the tunnel, the AST21 would retain fighter-like maneuverability unlike any other attack aircraft. Again, the AST21 could be remanufactured by rebuilding existing F-14Ds.
The final upgrade could have been the ASF-14 (Advanced Strike Fighter). While the F-14D Quickstrike, ST21 and AST21 would have preserved as much of the basic F-14 design and systems as possible, the ASF-14 would have only looked like an F-14. It would have taken full advantage of the new ATF and ATA (Advanced Tactical Attack Aircraft) technologies. But the ASF-14 would have been a lot more expensive to develope than the ST21 (but still a lot cheaper than the F/A-18E/F)
http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-history-f14x.htm

the F-14 was a combat vetran unlike the naval Flanker which has been Just a show pice

Ps : please Resech befor slugging mud at Classic Fighters
 

AJSINGH

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AJji there is a diffrence the F-18 Block-I thur Block II served as MMRCA for the USN Development of the F/A-18 came as a result of the U.S. Navy's Naval Fighter-Attack, Experimental (VFAX) program to procure a multirole aircraft to replace the A-4 Skyhawk, the A-7 Corsair II, remaining F-4 Phantom IIs and to complement the F-14 Tomcat the Cat on the other hand was initiated when it became obvious that the weight and maneuverability issues plaguing the U.S. Navy variant of the Tactical Fighter Experimental (TFX) (F-111B) would not be resolved to the Navy's satisfaction. The Navy requirement was for a fleet air defense fighter (FADF) with the primary role of intercepting Soviet bombers before they could launch missiles against the carrier battle group
why did they want to replace F-4 phatom ,because there were better carrier fighters in Russia,plus the aircraft in russian air force (for example Mig 31 was better at ultra long range BVR than F-14 ,hence major threat to carrier battle group of USA)everytime yankees came out with new fighter was to defeat soviet bombers and fighter interceptors (Tu 160 in one incident came right over USA batter carrier group and US AC did not even know it ) . Yankees very well knew that F-14 did not stand a chance against soviet interceptors such as Su27 and Mig 29 hence they looked for new fighter with better agility and avionics ,ofcourse USA will deny that because they happen to be very proud .
 

AJSINGH

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and plus the Yankees were not scared sHit by by the Naval Flanker Both the Cat and the Su-33 belong to the same class


the F-14 was a combat vetran unlike the naval Flanker which has been Just a show pice
so you think naval flanker was a show piece ( then our very own Mig29K is show piece too) F-14 being combat vetran does not mean anything ,because americans havent fought any enemy with credible airforce ( except in vietnam war ,where yankees lost a lot of aircraft to slightly obsolete soviet intercepters)
just because Su33 did not experience any combat ,it does not mean it is show piece or junk .
and yankees were scared about soviet bombers and interceptors ( and soviet programs were more secret than Skunk Works ,americans used to know about soviet programs only through defections ( such as Mig25 and later Su27 from ukraine ) and satellite passes over soviet basses but that did not give then much information
 

Sridhar

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[mod] Let us stick to Indian Naval aviation . All off topic hence forth will be deleted [/Mod]
 

SATISH

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Ok AJSingh. I never undermined the MiG29K. I was telling the LCA will also be a good strike platform. It is a delta wing aircraft and hence it can accelerate and climb quickly. The LCA has a surface area comprising of 95% composites and is hence more corrosion resistant. The EJ 200 and the GE F-414 engine will also bring the LCA to similar TWR. So all I want to tell is the LCA along with the MiG 29K will make a great team and will complement each other. And the Delta also has one more great capability that everyone forgets. It might be small but can carry hell a lot more fuel. P.S. No one feared the Su 33 because it could carry what a MiG 29K can carry. That is why the Russians moved away from it.
 

AJSINGH

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Ok AJSingh. I never undermined the MiG29K. I was telling the LCA will also be a good strike platform. It is a delta wing aircraft and hence it can accelerate and climb quickly. The LCA has a surface area comprising of 95% composites and is hence more corrosion resistant. The EJ 200 and the GE F-414 engine will also bring the LCA to similar TWR. So all I want to tell is the LCA along with the MiG 29K will make a great team and will complement each other. And the Delta also has one more great capability that everyone forgets. It might be small but can carry hell a lot more fuel. P.S. No one feared the Su 33 because it could carry what a MiG 29K can carry. That is why the Russians moved away from it.
look i understand what you are trying to say,but saying LCA is better than Mig29K would be a joke,anyways Russians selected Su33 and not Mig29k.Russians were surprised that we selected Mig29K for the same AC,they had operated Su33 from ,our selection criteria is different from Russians
 

Energon

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Actually I won't be surprised if the Mig29K works out better than the Su-33. The naval flanker has had tremendous problems (which weren't completely addressed because of the fall of the Soviet empire). The primary reason the Russians went with the flanker was because at the height of the cold war the mantra was "bigger is better" and of course it was a direct competitor to the F-14 (which was a "lighter" replacement for the Aardvark). But eventually both sides realized that the mere size of the aircraft didn't mean much, and it was actually a hindrance in most cases.

For STOBAR carriers heavy aircrafts pose crippling operational challenges. In the case of the flanker there is either a compromise with the payload or the reserve fuel at take off. Even if the air crafts can be refueled in the air, it still presents with an operational handicap. The US Navy on the other hand doesn't have this problem because all of their carriers operate on the CATOBAR format.

As far as STOBAR carriers are concerned, the Mig29K may prove to be a far better choice and reduce some of the operational burden associated with weight and thrust (I don't think it'll be eliminated).
 

SATISH

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look i understand what you are trying to say,but saying LCA is better than Mig29K would be a joke,anyways Russians selected Su33 and not Mig29k.Russians were surprised that we selected Mig29K for the same AC,they had operated Su33 from ,our selection criteria is different from Russians
Baku/Kiev class never operated the Su-33. It used to operate the YAK-38 "FORGER". You need some more research about the Soviet naval warfare doctrine. The Kuznetsov class only operated the Su-33 and now they are going to replace it with the MiG 29K during MLU. I never told MiG 29K was inferior to LCA. I always maintained that the LCA can complement MiG 29K in strike roles.
 

F-14

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ok I am going OT for the last time

Soviet&Russian Naval Aviation from the start was based on CAS for the Ground forces in a loitter or aphibious landing scenario for the Russian Land and naval Troops and Interidiction of supply convoys the Soviet Navy was unique in deploying large numbers of bombers in a maritime role for use by Naval Aviation. Aircraft such as the Tupolev Tu-16 "Badger" and Tu-22M "Backfire" were deployed with high-speed anti-ship missiles. The primary role of these aircraft were to intercept NATO supply convoys, acting as part of Operation REFORGER, en route to Europe from North America.
 

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