Indian Naval Aviation

[Crusader53]

Care to elaborate why? Do American fighters have some super-duper god-mod that no European fighter has?


The Super Hornet offers the most to India. With access to more Advance Technology, the Most Mature Design, one that shares the same Engine with the LCA, Greater Support for Future Upgardes, A Type Available in more Models including Electronic Warefare, etc. etc. etc.


You're right, it is too early for prediction. It is also too early to say that F-35s will operate from any Indian AC, as the F-35 is not even complete yet, and is years away from induction, let alone export!

I am saying the odds are very good that India will select the F-35C as its next Naval Fighter. As nothing else can compare. That is of course my personal opinion. One that you are free to agree with or not.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Boeing to pitch 'diet' P-8 to Indian Navy

December 23, 2010
By Saurabh Joshi

US defense major Boeing will be pitching a 'diet' version of the P-8 Poseidon aircraft in response to the Request for Information (RFI) issued by the Indian Navy for Medium Range Maritime Reconnaissance (MRMR) Aircraft, due by the end of the year, next week.

Boeing has already begun work on the first of eight P-8I Long Range Maritime Reconnaissance aircraft to be supplied to the Indian Navy, in a deal concluded in the beginning of 2009 at a cost of US $ 2.1 billion.

Company sources told StratPost that even though the derivative proposed for the MRMR RFI will look the same as the P-8I and be based on the 737 platform, it will have smaller tanks and a shorter range and will only have surface warfare capability. The P-8I is capable of both surface as well as sub-surface warfare.

The RFI also asks vendors if the aircraft can carry out electronic intelligence gathering and counter-measures, besides maritime patrol and search and rescue within an operational envelope of 350 nautical miles or almost 650 kilometers, as well as a patrol endurance of at least three and a half hours. It also specifies a requirement that the aircraft be capable of carrying at least two anti-ship missiles and a jamming pod.

As with the P-8I, the navy has specified in the RFI that certain pieces of equipment must be indigenous, like, IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) Interrogator with Secure Mode, MSS Terminal – BFE, Datalink and Speech Secrecy Equipment and vendors must indicate their commitment to integrate this equipment into the aircraft.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Wonder what Boeing thinks and believes? MRMR requirement is not just for payload and electronics but also for the platform/aircraft specifications and obviously unit and operational cost. You reduce the tank capacity, you strip certain electronics and you think it is a MRMR? Why not ask user to fly with half filled tanks and switched off electronics instead?

'Boeing' can believe what they want to but the most suitable aircraft for MRMR will be in the class of ATR-72 and can very well be either of ATR-72 ASW, CASA C-295, EMB 142 ASW and Dassult Falcon 2000 MRA .

 

[Rahul Singh]

Excellent music.

 

[JHA]

If we can get some more TU-142 then it will be best option..No one can compete with this in Range,Speed and Fire power..
I believe some mothballed airframes would be stored in Russia..

 

[Rahul Singh]

TU-142 is uncomparable in range, endurance and even speed considering its turboprop. Navy TU-142 can go to South Africa and return back without refueling. This endurance gives TU-142 Bear F no less than 5 hours of on station time even operating at 1000 NM away from shore...........But one problem which haunts user is operating cost. May be this is the reason why Navy did not accepted Russia's offer to upgrade the existing Beers which included life extension of airframe.

 

[Tshering22]

I agree with some of your conclusions. Except the Rafale is not going to the win the MMRCA. Also, I have my doubt about a Naval Verison of the FGFA operating from the IAC-2. Though, its way to early for any real prediction.

It might for all you know man. Think about it; going by the latest reports, we will be getting the FGFAs (not PAK FA) versions by 2020. Which means that the single seater models will be already out and IAF has decided to procure 50 single seaters. Since it will be taken in early, then it is very likely that Russian Navy which is keen on replacing Su-33s with PAK FA versions alongside the "lighter" MiG-29Ks, will start navalizing it. MiG-29 was their first attempt at a new aircraft. But with the experience, it shouldn't take them too long to figure out PAK-FA single seater naval versions.

IAC-2 will begin itself in 2017 and if we take a modest guess taking into account sarkari slowpokes, it should take at least time till 2020-21 to 2022 to get it inducted. Perfect time for single seater Naval-PAK FAs. Just for the information, Indian Navy isn't so obsessed with dual seaters as IAF is and hence might consider a 5G semi-domestic version rather than 100% foreign (Navy is also the fiercest proponent of indigenization of our defence).

 

[Pandora]

tshring ji !!1st of all tell me the total approx. weight of single seater Pakfa and fgfa whatever will be ,just add 3 tonnes extra as for navalised version due to strengthing of airframe,tail hook etc etc ,rite it means Pakfa will lingering around 32tonne and FGFA to 35 tonne due 2 seater. Sorry not at all appropiate for 65k+IAC 2 . Best we can field are rafale M or F 35C with NLCA as complement in many more units .

 

[Tshering22]

tshring ji !!1st of all tell me the total approx. weight of single seater Pakfa and fgfa whatever will be ,just add 3 tonnes extra as for navalised version due to strengthing of airframe,tail hook etc etc ,rite it means Pakfa will lingering around 32tonne and FGFA to 35 tonne due 2 seater. Sorry not at all appropiate for 65k+IAC 2 . Best we can field are rafale M or F 35C with NLCA as complement in many more units .

Just as you said about the weight, do you think that UAC engineers won't consider it? The new aircraft carriers are not going to be supercarriers for Russia either and hence weight will be a consideration. And since Russians are the team spearheading the 1-seater PAKFA, I think that there will be drastic changes in the overall weight terms to reduce say some internal carriage and maybe reduce some external hard points (PAKFA aims at 16 total internal and external hardpoints combined). That would drastically bring down the weight issue. Apart from this, consider your additional 3 tonnes.

F-35 and Rafale have just one advantage and that is smaller size and weight. But see from the POV of India's future independence in defence:

- 100% foreign equipment
- Restrictions in case of F-35
- Having a 3rd stealth platform when 2 are already there and that will be a strain on our budget
- Rafale expensive and 4.5G rather than the 5G PAKFA offers

Navy's aim is state of the art fighters and that have some Indian hold if not 100%. I believe MiG-29K will be the last of foreign made fighters in IN.

 

[Pandora]

i don't know what russian doctrine says but they still not decided about navalised Pak fa . Just look at the huge size mate ! How much weight they gonna loose and how much time they require for this complex job ?! Navy and indian MOD is no mood for this time taking and complex work better they can order F 35 C when their production facilty are less congested somewhat and am sure IN WILL GET F35C WITHIN 24MONTHS of contract signing.

 

[Pandora]

btw by 2020Rafale M Might be block 2 avtaar . And am damn sure still its way better than chinese carrier A/c whatever they going to field say till 2050.

 

[Crusader53]

It might for all you know man. Think about it; going by the latest reports, we will be getting the FGFAs (not PAK FA) versions by 2020. Which means that the single seater models will be already out and IAF has decided to procure 50 single seaters. Since it will be taken in early, then it is very likely that Russian Navy which is keen on replacing Su-33s with PAK FA versions alongside the "lighter" MiG-29Ks, will start navalizing it. MiG-29 was their first attempt at a new aircraft. But with the experience, it shouldn't take them too long to figure out PAK-FA single seater naval versions.

I've seen nothing to suggest that a Naval Version of the PAK-FA is currently being funded by Russia and/or India. Just a great deal of speculation unsupported by fact. Plus, Russia has just put off it's New Carrier Program. So, the need is far from pressing at the moment.

IAC-2 will begin itself in 2017 and if we take a modest guess taking into account sarkari slowpokes, it should take at least time till 2020-21 to 2022 to get it inducted. Perfect time for single seater Naval-PAK FAs. Just for the information, Indian Navy isn't so obsessed with dual seaters as IAF is and hence might consider a 5G semi-domestic version rather than 100% foreign (Navy is also the fiercest proponent of indigenization of our defence).

Even if a Naval Version of the PAK-FA was currently being developed. The odds are it would never make your 2020-2022 timeline. As India would be extremely lucky to get it's model (FGFA) of the PAK-FA by that time. Let alone a much modified Naval Variant.

As a matter of fact I wouldn't at all be surprised. If India ever gets a Naval PAK-FA. In my opinion she will likely end up with the F-35C and EMALS from the US for the IAC-2 & 3.

 

[Tshering22]

Even if a Naval Version of the PAK-FA was currently being developed. The odds are it would never make your 2020-2022 timeline. As India would be extremely lucky to get it's model (FGFA) of the PAK-FA by that time. Let alone a much modified Naval Variant.

As a matter of fact I wouldn't at all be surprised. If India ever gets a Naval PAK-FA. In my opinion she will likely end up with the F-35C and EMALS from the US for the IAC-2 & 3.

And what makes you think that F-35 will be available to us before 2020? Any specific reasons friend? Let's see, you have 12 member countries having ordered 50-1,000 fighter jets of these type. US alone has ordered around 400 JSF-C variant. This means that by the time all member states finish, we will have to wait anyway. And even if it isn't about getting fighters, it would be about getting the IAC-2 on time. Knowing our government and its corrupt and lethargic processes, It might take 4-5 years to build the IAC-2 if we can start by 2018. Count those years and you arrive at 2022. Sukhoi said that they'd begin induction of the single seater for AF version in 2016 onwards. Pogosyan also stated that if Russian Navy (and possibly IN) committed viable numbers, Naval variant would be simultaneously worked on from AF version's induction time.

F-35 is a good aircraft man, no doubts about it. But see the predicament, even if we wanted to, getting a third stealth platform will be not in our budget, even though we will reach/cross $2 trillion mark economy by 2015. We simply cannot afford a third stealth platform and the IN is known for some quite high clocking hours to keep her pilots airborne; which would be impossible with JSF due to its operational cost.

And if reports have it right, MiG-29K is likely to be the last 4.5G fighter we got in the Navy with Naval Tejas.

 

[sandeepdg]

Whether or not we get a naval FGFA or not, one things very that even if we sign up for inducting the F-35, i.e. if it really happens, there's now way we will get it before 2020 ! Even if we do, I think it will not be a date before 2025 at the least what with 3100 planes are on order by the nine major partner countries till 2035.

 

[Crusader53]

Whether or not we get a naval FGFA or not, one things very that even if we sign up for inducting the F-35, i.e. if it really happens, there's now way we will get it before 2020 ! Even if we do, I think it will not be a date before 2025 at the least what with 3100 planes are on order by the nine major partner countries till 2035.

Considering the world economy I doubt India would have a problem. With some JSF Partners giving up a few slots. So, they could get a number of F-35's early.


In short wouldn't be a issue at all............

 

[Crusader53]

And what makes you think that F-35 will be available to us before 2020? Any specific reasons friend? Let's see, you have 12 member countries having ordered 50-1,000 fighter jets of these type. US alone has ordered around 400 JSF-C variant. This means that by the time all member states finish, we will have to wait anyway. And even if it isn't about getting fighters, it would be about getting the IAC-2 on time. Knowing our government and its corrupt and lethargic processes, It might take 4-5 years to build the IAC-2 if we can start by 2018. Count those years and you arrive at 2022. Sukhoi said that they'd begin induction of the single seater for AF version in 2016 onwards. Pogosyan also stated that if Russian Navy (and possibly IN) committed viable numbers, Naval variant would be simultaneously worked on from AF version's induction time.

F-35 is a good aircraft man, no doubts about it. But see the predicament, even if we wanted to, getting a third stealth platform will be not in our budget, even though we will reach/cross $2 trillion mark economy by 2015. We simply cannot afford a third stealth platform and the IN is known for some quite high clocking hours to keep her pilots airborne; which would be impossible with JSF due to its operational cost.

And if reports have it right, MiG-29K is likely to be the last 4.5G fighter we got in the Navy with Naval Tejas.

The F-35 will be produced over many decades and another production line is already being planned for....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Crusader53]

Nice Pic......:emot112:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[chex3009]