Indian Electronics and Semiconductor manufacturing industry

[Hari Sud]

Is there a summary of effort which Modi government is making to bring the semiconductor industry and computer wafer manufacture to India.

ls it for local use or for exports Or both?

 

[Haldilal]

We should commercialize from 22 to 180 in production. Then we can slowly make our capability. There are many equipments available for the 22 NM in second hand market that also is a option we can choose.

 

[SKC]

2nd hand equipment can be purchased, there is a huge market.



Not necessary to even get the 1gen before latest equipment like 10nm,there are a wide variety of ICs, there are analog IC's, microcontrollers, ARM processors of various kinds, MIPS based processors used in routers etc.

Ideally we should start small with the aforementioned IC types + RISCV SHAKTI type experimental processors, then move on to the higher end IC fabrication with high end equipment.

However all this will have to be done by government through a special purpose PSU, all private sector banias here don't want to take risk and takleef, no matter how many incentives are thrown at them.

Yes, correct other than consumer grade processors, there is no need to this low size nodes. Most of the electronics (TV, fridge, microcontrollers, remotes, etc) works fine with 180, 200 nm nodes.

 

[SKC]

btw in 2014 even back then there were plans for fabs but they never took off, and there was continous shilling by "eminents" and "experts" about how India "doesn't need" a Fab and how it will be a "white elephant" and all.
Now exact same people shilling FOR a Fab rather than against it, what gives?

FAB plants very easily becomes white elephant if you are not able to find products and the market to sell the produce. This is how most of the EU FAB plants went bankrupt (there were fab plants in UK, Netherlands and few other countries.). They simply did not have any mass scale selling product to put their output in.

We need to create a cash cow product which sell in hyper scale so that we can justify the no of FAB plants proposed for India. In the current global market, it is very difficult to sell the production of these plants unless you have a high consumption in local market.

 

[shade]

Is there a summary of effort which Modi government is making to bring the semiconductor industry and computer wafer manufacture to India.

ls it for local use or for exports Or both?

ATM 2019 Modi government is doing nothing, not even jhumlas, you did see some action in 2014 Modi government, but everything fell through one by one, there was to be a fab coming up in Gujarat by this company called HSMC, but it fell through because the company wasn't doing squat, maybe they didn't get investor money or something, so Govt took away their license or permit whatever to the land.

Strangely the website for this HSMC is still up https://www.hsmcindia.com/

Govt cancels permit granted to HSMC Tech for setting up semiconductor plant - Times of India

India Business News: New Delhi, Jan 2 () The government has cancelled the letter of intent granted to a consortium led by HSMC Technologies India for setting up the countr

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

This is TOI article detailing the CANCEL of the license/permit given to this company.
As I said before private sector dalals have no interest in investing money in a "risky" enterprise like this, so GoI has to get it done.


If you want I can give you details about Modi-1 government plans for fabs, but it will take some digging up to do.
I miss 2014, i was so optimistic back then :/

 

[SKC]

ATM 2019 Modi government is doing nothing, not even jhumlas, you did see some action in 2014 Modi government, but everything fell through one by one, there was to be a fab coming up in Gujarat by this company called HSMC, but it fell through because the company wasn't doing squat, maybe they didn't get investor money or something, so Govt took away their license or permit whatever to the land.

Strangely the website for this HSMC is still up https://www.hsmcindia.com/

Govt cancels permit granted to HSMC Tech for setting up semiconductor plant - Times of India

India Business News: New Delhi, Jan 2 () The government has cancelled the letter of intent granted to a consortium led by HSMC Technologies India for setting up the countr

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

This is TOI article detailing the CANCEL of the license/permit given to this company.
As I said before private sector dalals have no interest in investing money in a "risky" enterprise like this, so GoI has to get it done.


If you want I can give you details about Modi-1 government plans for fabs, but it will take some digging up to do.
I miss 2014, i was so optimistic back then :/

I agree, this one area and the supercomputer project, NDA 1 failed big time.
My home city, Noida has been repeatedly selected for the setup of FAB plants and i would always be excited about it.
But nothing materialized even after 6-7 years. Same thing with the overhyped Super-computing project. Again Noida was supposed to get a Multi Petascale supercomputer in the national weather forecast building here, nowhere in site now.
Out of 40 proposed new supercomputer only 2 got commissioned just this month.
I am so much pained by the slow pace of progress in these 2 departments.
In china they have supercomputer even for smaller $1 billion manufacturers for R&D and sales forecasting.
Here our Big Govt Department don't have small supercomputers.

 

[shade]

Basically any high capital intensive business needs govt support or govt itself being the high capex "heavy industry" which is why Aashiq -e- Edwina( pic related )

Made all the PSUs we love to shit on today based on the Soviet model, kamsin kali sharmili private sector ko darr lagta tha paise dalne me, so Govt had to do the heavy lifting, over time these PSUs became black holes of kamchori and loss of govt money, because the focus had changed from getting results to giving employment at any cost, because votes, so in effect all heavy industry here became glorified MNREGA employment dole schemes for degree possessing people instead of the uneducated labourers at which MNREGA scheme is targeted.

The clusterfucks that are PSUs today has caused Modi govt to be spooked with PSU concept altogether, and focus on "private sector" as some magical cure-all.

Thing is you just cannot expect private sector to invest in high-capex, long-term and "strategic" projects like semiconductor fabs, gas turbine development, engine development, supercomputer development etc. which require constant funding without instant results/RoI like most of the dalal private sector types want today.

GoI has to be the vanguard for projects that are in strategic interest of the nation, like semiconductor fabs.
They can probably privatize it later when it becomes profitable/self sustaining and Govt TLC is not needed

 

[Haldilal]

ATM 2019 Modi government is doing nothing, not even jhumlas, you did see some action in 2014 Modi government, but everything fell through one by one, there was to be a fab coming up in Gujarat by this company called HSMC, but it fell through because the company wasn't doing squat, maybe they didn't get investor money or something, so Govt took away their license or permit whatever to the land.

Strangely the website for this HSMC is still up https://www.hsmcindia.com/

Govt cancels permit granted to HSMC Tech for setting up semiconductor plant - Times of India

India Business News: New Delhi, Jan 2 () The government has cancelled the letter of intent granted to a consortium led by HSMC Technologies India for setting up the countr

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

This is TOI article detailing the CANCEL of the license/permit given to this company.
As I said before private sector dalals have no interest in investing money in a "risky" enterprise like this, so GoI has to get it done.


If you want I can give you details about Modi-1 government plans for fabs, but it will take some digging up to do.
I miss 2014, i was so optimistic back then :/

That plan has gone down. Its was over ambitious they could have gone small but there aim was to go big from start. You can surely start in a fraction of price. First make 180 NM for other electronics then aim higher. Ever heard of Tokyo Electron, Dainippon Screen, Daifuku, Hitachi High-Tech?

A 180 NM plant could be started with just less than 600 Crores.

 

[shade]

That plam has gone down. Its was over ambitious they could have gone small but there aim was to go big from start. You can surely start in a fraction of price. Firts make 180 NM for other electronics then aim higher. Ever heard of Tokyo Electron, Dainippon Screen, Daifuku, Hitachi High-Tech?

A 180 NM plant could be started with just less than 600 Crores.

Yes, a commercial grade fab we need, we already have 180 nm fab but that is ISRO owned and operated, sometimes it is used for IIT research projects tho, not commercial.

 

[Hari Sud]

ATM 2019 Modi government is doing nothing, not even jhumlas, you did see some action in 2014 Modi government, but everything fell through one by one, there was to be a fab coming up in Gujarat by this company called HSMC, but it fell through because the company wasn't doing squat, maybe they didn't get investor money or something, so Govt took away their license or permit whatever to the land.

Strangely the website for this HSMC is still up https://www.hsmcindia.com/

Govt cancels permit granted to HSMC Tech for setting up semiconductor plant - Times of India

India Business News: New Delhi, Jan 2 () The government has cancelled the letter of intent granted to a consortium led by HSMC Technologies India for setting up the countr

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

This is TOI article detailing the CANCEL of the license/permit given to this company.
As I said before private sector dalals have no interest in investing money in a "risky" enterprise like this, so GoI has to get it done.


If you want I can give you details about Modi-1 government plans for fabs, but it will take some digging up to do.
I miss 2014, i was so optimistic back then :/

I also read the Indian media information a bit piecemeal. It is contradictory to what you are saying.

 

[SKC]

Yes, a commercial grade fab we need, we already have 180 nm fab but that is ISRO owned and operated, sometimes it is used for IIT research projects tho, not commercial.

A separate Industrial plant is needed for industrial scale production. It also needs few guaranteed commercial products which can be sold on large scale. There should be cash cow available for such plant.

 

[Haldilal]

I also read the Indian media information a bit piecemeal. It is contradictory to what you are saying.

Ya'll Nibbiars The HSMC aim is literally high in phase 1 they wanted to manufacture 40 NM at 20,000 waffers annually. In phase two 14 NM at 20,000 waffers annual with 300 MM waffers. That requires multi billion dollars investments.

 

[shade]

HSMC aim is literally high in phase 1 they wanted to manufacture 40 NM at 20,000 waffles annually. In phase two 14 NM at 20,000 waffers annual. That requires multi billion dollars investments.

Unsurprisingly no private investor was willing to put money.

A separate Industrial plant is needed for industrial scale production. It also needs few guaranteed commercial products which can be sold on large scale. There should be cash cow available for such plant.

Surgical Strike bans on specific IC or Microcontrollers like we see on TV and AC import can be applied for this purpose in the domestic market, and also commercializing the RISCV SHAKTI project of IIM Madras

 

[shade]

Our large domestic market can be used as a springboard for export competitiveness in most sectors, IC and Display fabrication included

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars see this happens when you try to run blindly.

HSMC promised China'a first 7 nm chips. It didn't go well. · TechNode

The collapse of a high-profile bid by HSMC to build China's first 7 nm foundry reveals the risks in the semiconductor rush.

technode.com

 

[SKC]

Surgical Strike bans on specific IC or Microcontrollers like we see on TV and AC import can be applied for this purpose in the domestic market, and also commercializing the RISCV SHAKTI project of IIM Madras

Absolutely. These minor devices like remotes of all electronic equipment are the best place to start with. Quite cheap to manufacture and needed in bulk scale.
Shakti project is not in commercial stage currently. It needs to have few generational updated until it gets ready for commercial use.

 

[shade]

Ya'll Nibbiars see this happens when you try to run blindly.

HSMC promised China'a first 7 nm chips. It didn't go well. · TechNode

The collapse of a high-profile bid by HSMC to build China's first 7 nm foundry reveals the risks in the semiconductor rush.

technode.com

Even the Chinese can't manage bleeding edge 7nm lol
Guess even the 400 IQ Han master race cannot copy ASML equipment.

Absolutely. These minor devices like remotes of all electronic equipment are the best place to start with. Quite cheap to manufacture and needed in bulk scale.
Shakti project is not in commercial stage currently. It needs to have few generational updated until it gets ready for commercial use.

The microcontroller class chip that they have can be commercialized I think, they have already fabbed some pieces through ISROs SCL fab in Chandigarh, and recently even managed to flash firmware on it, complete with a serial/UART console.
The microprocessor class chips are still very far out I agree.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars The HSMC wanted 10,000 crores for their Phase one and Phase two they even wanted to aim for 7 NM but that would had required a minium investments of 28,000 crores for a 40,000 to 80,000 Waffers of 450 MM annually.

 

[SKC]

T

Even the Chinese can't manage bleeding edge 7nm lol
Guess even the 400 IQ Han master race cannot copy ASML equipment.

They don't even have their own process for 28-40 nm class nodes. Most of the production is done by TSMC and other companies.
They contacted AMD for producing their chips for their own Govt use on AMD nodes. AMD produced their Zen 1st gen processor with Chinese encryption technique replacing the standard AES encryption scheme. Apart from encryption the processor is basically same Zen 1 processor as sold globally.

They even bought complete VIA patents from mid 90s to produce on much bigger nodes. they hoped their local industry will copy and reverse engineer the process and they will scale it to 12nm or lower but this did not turn out to be so.
Not everything in the world can be reverse engineered just by purchasing and opening it.

 

[Haldilal]

There is a market for 2 lakh crores worth of Semiconductors in india if we are able to manufactures even on a small scale there is a huge potential.