Indian Economy: News and Discussion

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars Tata Robotic's dreams is still on's. Not given up with the delays still aims to be a 1,000 crores target.

 

[HitmanBlood]

RW in india is not economically right at all rss opposed this budget and has opposed privatisation many times

IMO socially conservative and economically socialist is the worst combo. It doesn't solve poverty nor it strengthens economy. So nation remains weak. It only increase handouts which emboldens leftist ecosystem who promise for even more. meanwhile socially conservative policy make RW look unappealing to modern youth. This gives even more ammo to leftist progressive who use this to paint RW as some backwards org.

Economic right and socially centrist is be best combo. This creates economic prosperity and also gives little bit of wiggle room for modernism. In short it makes people rich and lets them enjoy it.

 

[Haldilal]

IMO socially conservative and economically socialist is the worst combo. It doesn't solve poverty nor it strengthens economy. So nation remains weak. It only increase handouts which emboldens leftist ecosystem who promise for even more. meanwhile socially conservative policy make RW look unappealing to modern youth. This gives even more ammo to leftist progressive who use this to paint RW as some backwards org.

Economic right and socially centrist is be best combo. This creates economic prosperity and also gives little bit of wiggle room for modernism. In short it makes people rich and lets them enjoy it.

Ya'll Nibbiars you probably meant by centrist facade with RW thinking. But many see's here that the BJP is centrist with the RW facade's.

 

[shade]

atmanirbhar bharat is just another version of license raj

in this globalized world shutting yourself from others and producing everything in the country dosen't work and never has we should instead open up more and become an export hub

import substitution just means more pain to the end consumers look at the outrageous taxes

It seems to me that you are reading those propaganda Gloomberg articles.
Gloomberg is the #1 source of FUD and Fake Nyooz being spread about Atmanirbhar Bharat.

Atmanirbhar Bharat is not a scheme, it is a dolled up optics and people friendly statement of "intent" or a "vision" of the manufacturing future of the country.

For schemes that implement the Atmanirbhar Bharat vision, you need to look forward to specific sectors and associated ministries.

First and foremost the "vision" behind Atmanirbhar Bharat is to make Bharat self-sufficient by integrating it with global supply chains and promoting exports, rather than whatever "shutting yourself from others" and "producing everything in the country" jhumlas you have read in Andy Mookherji articles.

I'll focus on electronics sector, since it is a fairly complex industry which cannot be fully indigenized atleast in any recent timeframe, yet it is a billion dollar industry, with many indigenization opportunities, and the demand from our country of which is met mainly by fully boxed imports, or CKD/SKD imports.

To deal with the matter of fully boxed imports in applicable sub sectors( as in you haven't signed a cuck WTO agreement to make imports of said categories of items duty free ) like Mobile Phones, Govt has successively increased import duties on fully assembled/boxed mobile phone imports, and even accessories like chargers

This has forced companies who make YUGE money through sales of smartphones like Xiaomeme, Oppo, Vivo, Xiaomi and Samsung to either themselves set up assembly plants here, or get their Contract Manufacturer partner( like Foxconn is to Apple and Xiaomi ) to set up factories here, at first the production is mainly CKD/SKD with the Indian input being only the labour/assembly.

This is still less than optimum, so what the Govt does is puts out two schemes, one is PMP( Phased Manufacturing Programme, dunno if this is still an active scheme ) , this increases the Basic Customs Duty on specified imported items in a span of years, with easily indigenizable items like chargers coming first, and complex items like display panels coming later.
This scheme isn't full proof, and there aren't any target items past the 2019-2020 years.

The other schemes are SPECS and PLI, SPCES is specifically incentive based towards electronics sub components and assemblies

Scheme for Promotion of Manufacturing of Electronic Components and Semiconductors (SPECS) | Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology, Government of India

www.meity.gov.in

PLI scheme is once again incentive based, but there are PLIs for a wide range of sectors like Pharma, Textiles, FMCG, Cars and ofc Electronics.
The way this scheme works is GoI sets sales targets for these firms, there is one for electronics where they have to make sales of phones of a certain price bracket iirc it was $300, phones of this price bracket don't sell well in India, so these sales have to be made by exports, in this way export is promoted.
Upon meeting the targets, Govt gives cash to the companies to the tune of 2%-4% of the sales target reached.
Sales targets are increased yearly.

Atmanirbhar Bharat aims to attain self sufficiency by prominence in exports( Not by turning India into an Autarky or License Raj 2.0 or Kim Jongistan ), for e.g Thailand is the global top manufacturer of Hard Drives by volume, so Thailand's local needs of Hard Drives are also met by the same factories that are primarily export oriented, Malaysia also exports multi function Printers to many countries, including ours, so surely their domestic needs for Printers are also met by the Global Scale factories that are in Malaysia for exports to multiple countries.
And then you also have China, the father of this model of "self sufficiency".
It is this model that GoI seeks to emulate.

The pattern is

>Set up Assembly Plant in India to avoid BCD from eating into margins
>Indigenize parts of the supply chain to avoid BCD and take a bite from Govt incentives
>Start exports to meet PLI targets, and get the Govt cashback promised in exchange for meeting PLI sales/export targets.
>Gain export dominance, your Global Scale/ Global Export factories of the world produce for export, and spare some excess capacity for the domestic market also.

OFC not everything can be Indigenized, even China hasn't achieved that yet, iirc they are the largest importers of semiconductors/chips/IC's on the globe today, mainly for their global scale export finished electronics products( phones, laptops, servers, TVs etc etc ) business.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

atmanirbhar bharat is just another version of license raj

License Raj was about government's strong control, restrictions and approval on opening industries in India.

Atmanirbhar Bharat is about producing items in India which otherwise were imported and hence, easing process of business and providing incentives is a part of it.

Basically both are pole opposites of each other.
License Raj one was a neo-communist policy with no real practical aim at whole while Atmanirbhar Bharat is capitalism with autarky motives.

import substitution just means more pain to the end consumers look at the outrageous taxes

Strong protectionism and import bans and not import substitution hurts consumer. Since Indian supply chains have lowest cost and hence lowest overall value addition in monetary terms, it will actually bring down the cost.

Also, in existing situation and posturing of China, no major country can afford to open markets like that. China will block supplies some day and consumers will suffer even more then. Internal strength of nationstate is important while world is heading towards conflicts.

it really isn't possible to be self sufficient though otherwise north korea would be the most advanced country in the world

It is about difference of state of that nation's industrial complex. Obviously it will be stupid if Uganda dreams to become self-suffcient in making aeroplanes but it won't be impractical if a country like India or Argentina dreams of.

Accordingly, ventures initiated under AB Vajpayee if were attempted under Nehru would have made him look like a fool. 100% self-sufficiency is impractical but country should try what it can get.

Early leaders of Congress were defended against their failures by same logicless argument while PV N Rao was called coca-cola PM and sabotaged by his own party for doing things seriously.

 

[Haldilal]

It seems to me that you are reading those propaganda Gloomberg articles.
Gloomberg is the #1 source of FUD and Fake Nyooz being spread about Atmanirbhar Bharat.

Atmanirbhar Bharat is not a scheme, it is a dolled up optics and people friendly statement of "intent" or a "vision" of the manufacturing future of the country.

For schemes that implement the Atmanirbhar Bharat vision, you need to look forward to specific sectors and associated ministries.

First and foremost the "vision" behind Atmanirbhar Bharat is to make Bharat self-sufficient by integrating it with global supply chains and promoting exports, rather than whatever "shutting yourself from others" and "producing everything in the country" jhumlas you have read in Andy Mookherji articles.

I'll focus on electronics sector, since it is a fairly complex industry which cannot be fully indigenized atleast in any recent timeframe, yet it is a billion dollar industry, with many indigenization opportunities, and the demand from our country of which is met mainly by fully boxed imports, or CKD/SKD imports.

To deal with the matter of fully boxed imports in applicable sub sectors( as in you haven't signed a cuck WTO agreement to make imports of said categories of items duty free ) like Mobile Phones, Govt has successively increased import duties on fully assembled/boxed mobile phone imports, and even accessories like chargers

This has forced companies who make YUGE money through sales of smartphones like Xiaomeme, Oppo, Vivo, Xiaomi and Samsung to either themselves set up assembly plants here, or get their Contract Manufacturer partner( like Foxconn is to Apple and Xiaomi ) to set up factories here, at first the production is mainly CKD/SKD with the Indian input being only the labour/assembly.

This is still less than optimum, so what the Govt does is puts out two schemes, one is PMP( Phased Manufacturing Programme, dunno if this is still an active scheme ) , this increases the Basic Customs Duty on specified imported items in a span of years, with easily indigenizable items like chargers coming first, and complex items like display panels coming later.
This scheme isn't full proof, and there aren't any target items past the 2019-2020 years.

The other schemes are SPECS and PLI, SPCES is specifically incentive based towards electronics sub components and assemblies

Scheme for Promotion of Manufacturing of Electronic Components and Semiconductors (SPECS) | Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology, Government of India

www.meity.gov.in

PLI scheme is once again incentive based, but there are PLIs for a wide range of sectors like Pharma, Textiles, FMCG, Cars and ofc Electronics.
The way this scheme works is GoI sets sales targets for these firms, there is one for electronics where they have to make sales of phones of a certain price bracket iirc it was $300, phones of this price bracket don't sell well in India, so these sales have to be made by exports, in this way export is promoted.
Upon meeting the targets, Govt gives cash to the companies to the tune of 2%-4% of the sales target reached.
Sales targets are increased yearly.

Atmanirbhar Bharat aims to attain self sufficiency by prominence in exports( Not by turning India into an Autarky or License Raj 2.0 or Kim Jongistan ), for e.g Thailand is the global top manufacturer of Hard Drives by volume, so Thailand's local needs of Hard Drives are also met by the same factories that are primarily export oriented, Malaysia also exports multi function Printers to many countries, including ours, so surely their domestic needs for Printers are also met by the Global Scale factories that are in Malaysia for exports to multiple countries.
And then you also have China, the father of this model of "self sufficiency".
It is this model that GoI seeks to emulate.

The pattern is

>Set up Assembly Plant in India to avoid BCD from eating into margins
>Indigenize parts of the supply chain to avoid BCD and take a bite from Govt incentives
>Start exports to meet PLI targets, and get the Govt cashback promised in exchange for meeting PLI sales/export targets.
>Gain export dominance, your Global Scale/ Global Export factories of the world produce for export, and spare some excess capacity for the domestic market also.

OFC not everything can be Indigenized, even China hasn't achieved that yet, iirc they are the largest importers of semiconductors/chips/IC's on the globe today, mainly for their global scale export finished electronics products( phones, laptops, servers, TVs etc etc ) business.

License Raj was about government's strong control, restrictions and approval on opening industries in India.

Atmanirbhar Bharat is about producing items in India which otherwise were imported and hence, easing process of business and providing incentives is a part of it.

Basically both are pole opposites of each other.
License Raj one was a neo-communist policy with no real practical aim at whole while Atmanirbhar Bharat is capitalism with autarky motives.

Strong protectionism and import bans and not import substitution hurts consumer. Since Indian supply chains have lowest cost and hence lowest overall value addition in monetary terms, it will actually bring down the cost.

Also, in existing situation and posturing of China, no major country can afford to open markets like that. China will block supplies some day and consumers will suffer even more then. Internal strength of nationstate is important while world is heading towards conflicts.

It is about difference of state of that nation's industrial complex. Obviously it will be stupid if Uganda dreams to become self-suffcient in making aeroplanes but it won't be impractical if a country like India or Argentina dreams of.

Accordingly, ventures initiated under AB Vajpayee if were attempted under Nehru would have made him look like a fool. 100% self-sufficiency is impractical but country should try what it can get.

Early leaders of Congress were defended against their failures by same logicless argument while PV N Rao was called coca-cola PM and sabotaged by his own party for doing things seriously.

Ya'll Nibbiars but is still think that the Vocal for local sounds better.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

@$$ kicking data for Librandus to deny.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Numbers and stat are disproportionately large ... And growth did nt suddenly started after 2014 .. If u dnt want to compare numbers since 1947 then lets compare 2009 - 2014 to 2014 - 2021 .. That ll be miserable ..

In 2014 we were 11th or 10th largest economy of the world in nominal (No change since Vajpayee ji left at 10th position) terms. It has improved to 5th position and by 2024, it will be 4th and in next couple of years, it will be third.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

This comparison is unfair, the growth of later years is often higher than the previous sum, but it can not be denied that the growth of the initial volume is relatively small.
Such a comparison is unfair. For example, the annual military expenditure of China is the sum of the military expenditure of the 50 years from 1949 to 2000. But it does not mean that now doing better than the sum of those 50 years, just because now stand at a relatively high level.

To understand this, we should see the average percentage rise which is much higher in Modi era particularly in development of IITs, IIMs, Road and railway line construction.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Ya'll Nibbiars we have build capacity from 2014 to 2020. But now it's time to full utilize it's. You can check we have not fully utilized our's productions capacity. And when money flows everything flows.

I fully agree. The specialty of Modi is that he is the master of utilizing whatever is available. We saw how he mobilized Indian military resources against China. He ever moved Indian navy Mig 29 in ladakh. We saw how quickly he moved Oxygen to various needy places. He is a master mobilizer.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Ya'll Nibbiars you will be suprised with the numbers of the export focused units we have here. But never fully utilized the capacity. In last one years it has increased with minor government support. And this has reflected in the April export's. But need to go full on with this if GOI want to achieve double digit growth rate at a sustained long term pattern's.

Ya'll nibbiars the Khangress lined money to their close ones which also reflected in the NPA's need a financial support based on the performance and merit based.

The reason of our inability to export was the problem with our vision. We are a huge thriving civilization with 1/6th of humanity. We certainly use many things which world may need or interested to have. However, we always lacked vision. Forget everything, we can export huge quantity of rice and wheats but we never seriously tried it except in Vajpayee ji's time.

 

[Haldilal]

The reason of our inability to export was the problem with our vision. We are a huge thriving civilization with 1/6th of humanity. We certainly use many things which world may need or interested to have. However, we always lacked vision. Forget everything, we can export huge quantity of rice and wheats but we never seriously tried it except in Vajpayee ji's time.

Ya'll Nibbiars many are ready even in few months we can literally flow the international Agro market with the Indian produce's but need a strong export supports and need to brutal at the WTO. Till now we acted weak in this matter need a strong postures.

Ya'll Nibbiars we have Paint's, Agro, Medicines, Engeering part's, Textiles, Building material's sector which are under utilized can focus here to increase our exports.

 

[FalconSlayers]

It seems to me that you are reading those propaganda Gloomberg articles.
Gloomberg is the #1 source of FUD and Fake Nyooz being spread about Atmanirbhar Bharat.

Atmanirbhar Bharat is not a scheme, it is a dolled up optics and people friendly statement of "intent" or a "vision" of the manufacturing future of the country.

For schemes that implement the Atmanirbhar Bharat vision, you need to look forward to specific sectors and associated ministries.

First and foremost the "vision" behind Atmanirbhar Bharat is to make Bharat self-sufficient by integrating it with global supply chains and promoting exports, rather than whatever "shutting yourself from others" and "producing everything in the country" jhumlas you have read in Andy Mookherji articles.

I'll focus on electronics sector, since it is a fairly complex industry which cannot be fully indigenized atleast in any recent timeframe, yet it is a billion dollar industry, with many indigenization opportunities, and the demand from our country of which is met mainly by fully boxed imports, or CKD/SKD imports.

To deal with the matter of fully boxed imports in applicable sub sectors( as in you haven't signed a cuck WTO agreement to make imports of said categories of items duty free ) like Mobile Phones, Govt has successively increased import duties on fully assembled/boxed mobile phone imports, and even accessories like chargers

This has forced companies who make YUGE money through sales of smartphones like Xiaomeme, Oppo, Vivo, Xiaomi and Samsung to either themselves set up assembly plants here, or get their Contract Manufacturer partner( like Foxconn is to Apple and Xiaomi ) to set up factories here, at first the production is mainly CKD/SKD with the Indian input being only the labour/assembly.

This is still less than optimum, so what the Govt does is puts out two schemes, one is PMP( Phased Manufacturing Programme, dunno if this is still an active scheme ) , this increases the Basic Customs Duty on specified imported items in a span of years, with easily indigenizable items like chargers coming first, and complex items like display panels coming later.
This scheme isn't full proof, and there aren't any target items past the 2019-2020 years.

The other schemes are SPECS and PLI, SPCES is specifically incentive based towards electronics sub components and assemblies

Scheme for Promotion of Manufacturing of Electronic Components and Semiconductors (SPECS) | Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology, Government of India

www.meity.gov.in

PLI scheme is once again incentive based, but there are PLIs for a wide range of sectors like Pharma, Textiles, FMCG, Cars and ofc Electronics.
The way this scheme works is GoI sets sales targets for these firms, there is one for electronics where they have to make sales of phones of a certain price bracket iirc it was $300, phones of this price bracket don't sell well in India, so these sales have to be made by exports, in this way export is promoted.
Upon meeting the targets, Govt gives cash to the companies to the tune of 2%-4% of the sales target reached.
Sales targets are increased yearly.

Atmanirbhar Bharat aims to attain self sufficiency by prominence in exports( Not by turning India into an Autarky or License Raj 2.0 or Kim Jongistan ), for e.g Thailand is the global top manufacturer of Hard Drives by volume, so Thailand's local needs of Hard Drives are also met by the same factories that are primarily export oriented, Malaysia also exports multi function Printers to many countries, including ours, so surely their domestic needs for Printers are also met by the Global Scale factories that are in Malaysia for exports to multiple countries.
And then you also have China, the father of this model of "self sufficiency".
It is this model that GoI seeks to emulate.

The pattern is

>Set up Assembly Plant in India to avoid BCD from eating into margins
>Indigenize parts of the supply chain to avoid BCD and take a bite from Govt incentives
>Start exports to meet PLI targets, and get the Govt cashback promised in exchange for meeting PLI sales/export targets.
>Gain export dominance, your Global Scale/ Global Export factories of the world produce for export, and spare some excess capacity for the domestic market also.

OFC not everything can be Indigenized, even China hasn't achieved that yet, iirc they are the largest importers of semiconductors/chips/IC's on the globe today, mainly for their global scale export finished electronics products( phones, laptops, servers, TVs etc etc ) business.

No one here promotes domestic brands, I wished if government would have rolled out this PLI specifically for foreign brands, and a separate PLI scheme but bigger for Indian companies.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars do you knew the Force Motor's they manufactures spare part's, auto components, transmission, engine for the BMW, Mercedes Benz and others in India. In the mid 90's and late 2000's they asked support from the GOI that then can increase their export's and not just serving the MNC's OEM's in India. But never taken seriously. And here left a opportunity to increase our auto components export's potentials just like that. And unless we make financial and policy support for the export units can't achieve the Mlecchas level.

 

[SKC]

Ya'll Nibbiars do you knew the Force Motor's they manufactures spare part's, auto components, transmission, engine for the BMW, Mercedes Benz and others in India. In the mid 90's and late 2000's they asked support from the GOI that then can increase their export's and not just serving the MNC's OEM's in India. But never taken seriously. And here left a opportunity to increase our auto components export's potentials just like that. And unless we make financial and policy support for the export units can't achieve the Mlecchas level.

All Force Motors vehicles uses Mercedes sourced engines. The engines are locally manufactured in Force Motor plants.

 

[Haldilal]

All Force Motors vehicles uses Mercedes sourced engines. The engines are locally manufactured in Force Motor plants.

Ya'll Nibbiars and they wanted to expand in the Export sector but never fully able to. The Import Export Bank of Indian is joke. They don't have needed capital to support the international trade.

 

[SKC]

Ya'll Nibbiars and they wanted to expand in the Export sector but never fully able to. The Import Export Bank is Indian is joke. They dont't have needed capital to support the international trade.

Wasted Opportunities during UPA 10 years. The whole world used Fiat designed 1.3 ltr MultiJet Diesel engine.
The engine contract was given to some company in India and they were selling it to all Indian vendors i.e. MS, Tata, Hyundai, etc. But the export was limited as production was not enough to fulfill Internal demand. No Govt initiative to double or triple the production and help the export of engine world wide.

If this was case in China or Korea they would have bought complete rights from Fiat and started RnD and huge production in their country and would have captured whole world market.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Ya'll Nibbiars many are ready even in few months we can literally flow the international Agro market with the Indian produce's but need a strong export supports and need to brutal at the WTO. Till now we acted weak in this matter need a strong postures.

Ya'll Nibbiarw we have Paint's, Agro, Medicines, Engeering part's, Textiles, Building material's sector which are under utilized can focus here to increase our exports.

Company like Patanjali should step in and improve addible oil, Rice, Wheat and different masalas, ghee, cow mil powder etc.

 

[Haldilal]

Wasted Opportunities during UPA 10 years. The whole world used Fiat designed 1.3 ltr MultiJet Diesel engine.
The engine contract was given to some company in India and they were selling it to all Indian vendors i.e. MS, Tata, Hyundai, etc. But the export was limited as production was not enough to fulfill Internal demand. No Govt initiative to double or triple the production and help the export of engine world wide.

If this was case in China or Korea they would have bought complete rights from Fiat and started RnD and huge production in their country and would have captured whole world market.

Ya'll Nibbiars we have a large Auto components sector which exports some parts but could be dominating forces if easy loans and policy is made for the export's. And we still are haunted by the ghost of the License Raj in the International Trade.

 

[SKC]

Ya'll Nibbiars we have a large Auto components sector which exports some parts but could be dominating forces if easy loans and policy is made for the export's. And we still are haunted by the ghost of the License Raj in the International Trade.

We need to lower down the heavy taxes put on the Automobile sector. This is hampering the true potential of car business in India.
Currently taxes makes up over 40% of the total cost of any car in India which makes in unfeasible for many families. Should be brought below 20%.
Also, there should be One uniform RTO and Road Tax policy in whole India.