Indian Economy: News and Discussion

Craigs

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I am not going to debate on gibberish you post ---- I know where you & likes of you come from --- I don't think you will ever grow up.

There is nothing called free markets ---- average poor Indian & farmer don't invest in luxury goods abroad --- guess who does :biggrin2:
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...o-undergo-treatment-in-usa-1300555-2018-07-30

Another commie fuck, wearing lungi and doing natak at home and then running of to land of the free for common cold treatment. Why couldn't he go to Cuba or NK?
 

Indx TechStyle

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I am not going to debate on gibberish you post
It's you who's posting garbage without any explanation and reasoning.
---- I know where you & likes of you come from --- I don't think you will ever grow up.
A spinless personal attack with again no logical connection with any section of debate won't help you.

It's going to make you look even more stupid. But again, I know the kind of person you are. And expecting common sense from a self proclaimed socialist (or communist) is stupidity of highest order itself. People support freebies because they are mentally retarded.
 

Haldiram

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2035 : Indian engineer @Bhumihar is running a profitable business.

2036 : Social engineer @south block becomes Prime Minister and nationalizes @Bhumihar 's business.

Humanities student : 1
STEM students : 0

Pirablem? :troll:

Jokes aside, that is how India works. It never goes full enterprise. It only allows free enterprise to grow in short spurts, only for the government to come back and hijack it later. We only move towards free enterprise, reluctantly, under external force.

Aap chronology samjhiye..

In 1991, India was bankrupt, the West promised to give some $ in exchange for opening up the economy. All the socialist oligarchs whined like it was the worst thing to happen; (It was, but only for the oligarchs). For the people, it was the best thing to happen. For the first time we saw the birth of a thriving middle class which propeled the economy for the next 5 years. That is why every one fondly remembers the 90's because that is the first time ordinary Indians tasted what it means to have surplus.

By the time we touched 1998, the socialists within the Vajpayee administration had bogged down his reforms by supporting Congress-era reservations and subsidies and waivers. The economy started decaying again. Post-Kargil we faced a financial crisis and Vajpayee again went back to the liberalization agenda. Subsidies were trimmed, new highways were built, much to the disliking of socialists even within the BJP. Nonetheless, he did whatever he could before they pulled the chair from underneath him. The next 5 years saw the economic fruits of Vajpayee's reforms. By the time we hit 2008, Manmohan had again taken us back to square one with more reservations and MGNREGA. By 2012, inflation touches 14%.

2015, Modi tries to formalize and open up the economy again (GST, FDI), again the socialists from raise their ugly heads (including RSS farmer unions), accusing Modi of being a corporate sellout. As a result Modi loses a few state elections. Reform agenda is again put in a freezer.

Fast forward to 2020 economy is frozen and socialists are asking..what has Modi done for the economy, accusing him of crony capitalism. In reality, the socialists work extra hard to make sure no reform agenda ever succeeds so that they can blame it on the reforms.

When people become entrepreneurs, they get financial freedom and the socialists cannot control them anymore. When 70% of the country is farmer, the flock remains under their control. Moral of the story is that socialists don't want @Bhumihar to be an entrepreneur, they want him to be a farmer all his life. This is not just a problem of numbers, fiscal deficit, repo rates etc. It's a problem of mindset.

That's why shameless farmers are roaming around after duping the taxpayer of lakhs of crores of subsidy every year and entrepreneurs are facing this fate :

 
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Roshan

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2035 : Indian engineer @Bhumihar is running a profitable business.

2036 : Social engineer @south block becomes Prime Minister and nationalizes @Bhumihar 's business.

Humanities student : 1
STEM students : 0

Pirablem? :troll:

Jokes aside, that is how India works. It never goes full enterprise. It only allows free enterprise to grow in short spurts, only for the government to come back and hijack it later. We only move towards free enterprise, reluctantly, under external force.

Aap chronology samjhiye..

In 1991, India was bankrupt, the West promised to give some $ in exchange for opening up the economy. All the socialist oligarchs whined like it was the worst thing to happen; (It was, but only for the oligarchs). For the people, it was the best thing to happen. For the first time we saw the birth of a thriving middle class which propeled the economy for the next 5 years. That is why every one fondly remembers the 90's because that is the first time ordinary Indians tasted what it means to have surplus.

By the time we touched 1998, the socialists within the Vajpayee administration had bogged down his reforms by supporting Congress-era reservations and subsidies and waivers. The economy started decaying again. Post-Kargil we faced a financial crisis and Vajpayee again went back to the liberalization agenda. Subsidies were trimmed, new highways were built, much to the disliking of socialists even within the BJP. Nonetheless, he did whatever he could before they pulled the chair from underneath him. The next 5 years saw the economic fruits of Vajpayee's reforms. By the time we hit 2008, Manmohan had again taken us back to square one with more reservations and MGNREGA. By 2012, inflation touches 14%.

2015, Modi tries to formalize and open up the economy again (GST, FDI), again the socialists from raise their ugly heads (including RSS farmer unions), accusing Modi of being a corporate sellout. As a result Modi loses a few state elections. Reform agenda is again put in a freezer.

Fast forward to 2020 economy is frozen and socialists are asking..what has Modi done for the economy, accusing him of crony capitalism. In reality, the socialists work extra hard to make sure no reform agenda ever succeeds so that they can blame it on the reforms.

When people become entrepreneurs, they get financial freedom and the socialists cannot control them anymore. When 70% of the country is farmer, the flock remains under their control. Moral of the story is that socialists don't want @Bhumihar to be an entrepreneur, they want him to be a farmer all his life. This is not just a problem of numbers, fiscal deficit, repo rates etc. It's a problem of mindset.

That's why shameless farmers are roaming around after duping the taxpayer of lakhs of crores of subsidy every year and entrepreneurs are facing this fate :

i;m no big fan of socialism and previously we had a discussion on Air india, i actually think the whole air india episode shows why a few companies and sectors should remain in govt control imo. there's no way a private airline would fly out to some of the nations we have ferried our citizens back from the way AI did and have done over the decades going all the way back to the gulf war. They've rescued some foreigners too and paid for their journey back home which is something no other nation or airline does or bothers doing. Is baat pe mai Swamy se sehmat hoon, it's like pawning off the family jewels to try to invite bids from foreign companies in a bid to divest it.
 

Haldiram

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i;m no big fan of socialism and previously we had a discussion on Air india, i actually think the whole air india episode shows why a few companies and sectors should remain in govt control imo. there's no way a private airline would fly out to some of the nations we have ferried our citizens back from the way AI did and have done over the decades going all the way back to the gulf war. They've rescued some foreigners too and paid for their journey back home which is something no other nation or airline does or bothers doing. Is baat pe mai Swamy se sehmat hoon, it's like pawning off the family jewels to try to invite bids from foreign companies in a bid to divest it.
The gormint needs to have some PSUs in sectors like defense, airlines and telecom but there is no need for them to have a monopoly over the sector. I mean, let them have MTNL and offer calls at an affordable rate, that is no reason for Jio to not exist.

My only point was that different orgs have different agendas. The gormint's agenda is not productivity, it's social justice. They see wealth distribution as a bigger priority than value creation, so every time they set up a PSU, even before setting up a growth strategy, they decide how to assign the reservation quota, and which disadvantaged group (i.e vote bank) gets to enjoy the job vacancies that arise out of that org.

RE : Air India.

Even I'm in favor of keeping Air India under the gormint's wings, even at a loss. I believe a nation needs to have a gormint-owned national carrier for emergency situations (and for RAW to run its miscellaneous OPs all year round without coming under scrutiny), but someone has to foot the bill for running a loss making org. The very reason they are being forced to sell it is because they blew the cash on farm subsidies.


The exchequer could fund Air India if he wasn't already burdened by funding farm loan waivers of shameless farmers.



For context : Air India land assets are around 8000 crores, and yearly EBIDTA is around 4000 crores, with a debt of 53,000 crores. If the gormint were to bailout the company, it would require less than one year's fertilizer subsidy to pay off the 53k crore debt. But..but but...priorities. Our constitution says that we are a socialist, secular republic, so let them sell the airlines. Charbi utarne do sarkar ki.

Why should the exchequer foot the bill for the government's ideological leanings towards socialism? they take taxes from us by showing advertisements of how that money will be spent on roads, railways, airports and then they spend it on subsidies. For one, I am grateful that they didn't introduce an Air India cess in our tax to bailout the airlines. Let them manage only what they are capable of managing within the existing tax structure, otherwise let them divert the farm subsidies to save the airlines. We ain't paying another dime extra.

I don't want my tax money to go to a PSU where I am not eligible to apply for 50% of the job vacancies. Let there be only 2-3 critical PSUs with limited personnel strength. Let the rest be privatized, including SBI and Indian railways. It's fun seeing freeloaders like @south block whine in pain seeing their assured income scheme being taken away.
 
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Knowitall

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https://www.indiatvnews.com/busines...-indian-economy-fy20-gdp-growth-moodys-602005


https://m.economictimes.com/news/ec...c-growth-severely-db/articleshow/74825429.cms

Growth now expected at 2.5% ye chal kya raha hai bhai. Ab recession hi reh gaya hai kya.

I won't take these reports at face value but since the world economy itself is heading for a downturn it's possible.

@Haldiram how possible do you think this is.

We really need to check our spending all this socialism will take us to the gutter.

I don't have any issue with government help during the viral outbreak so don't take it the other way.

I am mainly talking about the other factors.

This growth slow out with high unemployment is really troubling.
 

Suryavanshi

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The gormint needs to have some PSUs in sectors like defense, airlines and telecom but there is no need for them to have a monopoly over the sector. I mean, let them have MTNL and offer calls at an affordable rate, that is no reason for Jio to not exist.

My only point was that different orgs have different agendas. The gormint's agenda is not productivity, it's social justice. They see wealth distribution as a bigger priority than value creation, so every time they set up a PSU, even before setting up a growth strategy, they decide how to assign the reservation quota, and which disadvantaged group (i.e vote bank) gets to enjoy the job vacancies that arise out of that org.

RE : Air India.

Even I'm in favor of keeping Air India under the gormint's wings, even at a loss. I believe a nation needs to have a gormint-owned national carrier for emergency situations (and for RAW to run its miscellaneous OPs all year round without coming under scrutiny), but someone has to foot the bill for running a loss making org. The very reason they are being forced to sell it is because they blew the cash on farm subsidies.


The exchequer could fund Air India if he wasn't already burdened by funding farm loan waivers of shameless farmers.



For context : Air India land assets are around 8000 crores, and yearly EBIDTA is around 4000 crores, with a debt of 53,000 crores. If the gormint were to bailout the company, it would require less than one year's fertilizer subsidy to pay off the 53k crore debt. But..but but...priorities. Our constitution says that we are a socialist, secular republic, so let them sell the airlines. Charbi utarne do sarkar ki.

Why should the exchequer foot the bill for the government's ideological leanings towards socialism? they take taxes from us by showing advertisements of how that money will be spent on roads, railways, airports and then they spend it on subsidies. For one, I am grateful that they didn't introduce an Air India cess in our tax to bailout the airlines. Let them manage only what they are capable of managing within the existing tax structure, otherwise let them divert the farm subsidies to save the airlines. We ain't paying another dime extra.

I don't want my tax money to go to a PSU where I am not eligible to apply for 50% of the job vacancies. Let there be only 2-3 critical PSUs with limited personnel strength. Let the rest be privatized, including SBI and Indian railways. It's fun seeing freeloaders like @south block whine in pain seeing their assured income scheme being taken away.
My Idea of an ideal Government run enterprise is that the state entity holds 25 to 30% of the market.

This will allow the State enterprise to break the monopoly of the Private players and force them to lower prices and offer better sevices.

In my view a PSU has a advantage over Private players because the operating cost of the PSU is handled by tax money.

I will take an example of telecom sector.

__________________________________________
Think of a hypothetical scenario here.

Suppose In this scenario bsnl holds 25% of the total mobile subscribers.
Now BSNL has all the money they need they can set up R&D with the flick of a wrist since they have no fund crunch.
They manufacture Telecom equipment and systems indigenously and hence lower their operating costs.

Now Jio can't increse it's prices to much because it they do Customers will start migrating towards BSNL.
This monopoly of the PSU keep the private players in check and force them to run at optimum performance to keep up with State enterprise.

Scenario over
________________________________________

A gov can assign billions to a State enterprise in it's initiation, same is not the case for private ones, they have to start with some millions and then gradually makes its way to billions.

Despite all the advantages of a PSU in practical the priavte players are absolutely pummeling the PSUs into dust.

Why is that? U guys know the reasons why
 

Haldiram

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My Idea of an ideal Government run enterprise is that the state entity holds 25 to 30% of the market.

This will allow the State enterprise to break the monopoly of the Private players and force them to lower prices and offer better sevices.

In my view a PSU has a advantage over Private players because the operating cost of the PSU is handled by tax money.

I will take an example of telecom sector.

__________________________________________
Think of a hypothetical scenario here.

Suppose In this scenario bsnl holds 25% of the total mobile subscribers.
Now BSNL has all the money they need they can set up R&D with the flick of a wrist since they have no fund crunch.
They manufacture Telecom equipment and systems indigenously and hence lower their operating costs.

Now Jio can't increse it's prices to much because it they do Customers will start migrating towards BSNL.
This monopoly of the PSU keep the private players in check and force them to run at optimum performance to keep up with State enterprise.

Scenario over
________________________________________

A gov can assign billions to a State enterprise in it's initiation, same is not the case for private ones, they have to start with some millions and then gradually makes its way to billions.

Despite all the advantages of a PSU in practical the priavte players are absolutely pummeling the PSUs into dust.

Why is that? U guys know the reasons why
PSU vs profits is always a paradox.

If a PSU is run with taxpayer's money, they should give the services at a discount rate to the tax payer since he has already paid for it in advance. For ex, MTNL agar mere hi tax se company start kar ke mujhse hi firse profit kamaye, fir PSU hone ka kya matlab hai? Fir toh mai direct Reliance Jio me paise invest kar leta na? at least the investor gets a share of the profits. Instead of diverting my tax money to MTNL, they could have let me voluntarily invest in a private telecom company.

In the example of MTNL, let's say you are a tax-payer. Tumhare paise se MTNL ne company start kar di, fir uss company ne logon ko mobile services bech ke profit kamaya. Does MTNL come back and share that profit with the taxpayer? seems logical right? if you are taking seed capital from someone to start a company, are you giving him a share of the profits? It's a different thing this dilemma never arises in PSUs since they never make profits. Toh profit share karne ki baat hi nahi aati. :pound:

The gormint needs to come clean on the agenda for operating PSUs. What is the primary purpose : Is it profit? are they sharing it with the taxpayers?

OR is the purpose to give affordable services to citizens by spending from a collective pool of money? in that case, what price are the non-taxpayers paying to use those common services for which they haven't paid? Either give discount to taxpayers while buying railway tickets, or charge double to non-taxpayers.

Neither of those two things is happening.
 
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Roshan

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The gormint needs to have some PSUs in sectors like defense, airlines and telecom but there is no need for them to have a monopoly over the sector. I mean, let them have MTNL and offer calls at an affordable rate, that is no reason for Jio to not exist.

My only point was that different orgs have different agendas. The gormint's agenda is not productivity, it's social justice. They see wealth distribution as a bigger priority than value creation, so every time they set up a PSU, even before setting up a growth strategy, they decide how to assign the reservation quota, and which disadvantaged group (i.e vote bank) gets to enjoy the job vacancies that arise out of that org.

RE : Air India.

Even I'm in favor of keeping Air India under the gormint's wings, even at a loss. I believe a nation needs to have a gormint-owned national carrier for emergency situations (and for RAW to run its miscellaneous OPs all year round without coming under scrutiny), but someone has to foot the bill for running a loss making org. The very reason they are being forced to sell it is because they blew the cash on farm subsidies.


The exchequer could fund Air India if he wasn't already burdened by funding farm loan waivers of shameless farmers.



For context : Air India land assets are around 8000 crores, and yearly EBIDTA is around 4000 crores, with a debt of 53,000 crores. If the gormint were to bailout the company, it would require less than one year's fertilizer subsidy to pay off the 53k crore debt. But..but but...priorities. Our constitution says that we are a socialist, secular republic, so let them sell the airlines. Charbi utarne do sarkar ki.

Why should the exchequer foot the bill for the government's ideological leanings towards socialism? they take taxes from us by showing advertisements of how that money will be spent on roads, railways, airports and then they spend it on subsidies. For one, I am grateful that they didn't introduce an Air India cess in our tax to bailout the airlines. Let them manage only what they are capable of managing within the existing tax structure, otherwise let them divert the farm subsidies to save the airlines. We ain't paying another dime extra.

I don't want my tax money to go to a PSU where I am not eligible to apply for 50% of the job vacancies. Let there be only 2-3 critical PSUs with limited personnel strength. Let the rest be privatized, including SBI and Indian railways. It's fun seeing freeloaders like @south block whine in pain seeing their assured income scheme being taken away.
in air india's case though despite the loss making venture that it was for a long time it was really during the decade of mismanagement under Praful Patel that a nail was all almost completely hammered into it's coffin. But yes if we allow bygones to be bygones it's all a matter of priorities.
 

Aaj ka hero

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i;m no big fan of socialism and previously we had a discussion on Air india, i actually think the whole air india episode shows why a few companies and sectors should remain in govt control imo. there's no way a private airline would fly out to some of the nations we have ferried our citizens back from the way AI did and have done over the decades going all the way back to the gulf war. They've rescued some foreigners too and paid for their journey back home which is something no other nation or airline does or bothers doing. Is baat pe mai Swamy se sehmat hoon, it's like pawning off the family jewels to try to invite bids from foreign companies in a bid to divest it.
I am against this, AIR INDIA WAS the property of Tata, No free nation must garb own very people personal dream.
Air India must return back to it's rightful owner.
Regarding in panic conditions, dude buy more c-17s type of aircrafts from the profit and taxes from airlines.
If one have IAF heavy lift division available, why not use it? Plus it can be used for many things but for that c-17s types have to go up in numbers, well that technical thing.
USA do it's spy things from private airlines too, you need patriotic and profitable businessmen who care about India interest, that must be the main goal if I am not wrong @Haldiram sir.
 

south block

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All pvt con artist need to be put in jail --- everything need to be nationalized. --- political maggots won't do it --- cause haramkhors have there money embedded in crony system including that of current dispensation. --- Whole system is rotten. --- but Mudi ji has given vachan to his pals that they will be safe no problem.
 

Holy Triad

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everything need to be nationalized.
So what you are saying is let the gormint officials suck the country bone dry.They had been since before and after independence.

What you are sneakily proposing is called licence raj

The Licence Raj or Permit Raj (rāj, meaning "rule" in Hindi)[1] is the elaborate system of licences, regulations and accompanying red tape that were required to set up and run businesses in India between 1947 and 1990.[2] The term plays off "British Raj", the period of British rule in India. It was coined by Indian freedom fighter and statesmanChakravarthi Rajagopalachari, who firmly opposed it for its potential for political corruption and economic stagnation, founding the Swatantra Party to oppose these practices.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licence_Raj


I thought you are guy with ideological differences. But what you are going for(or rooting for) is blatant power grab.
Then What's the difference between you and the "corrupt" elite you were droning about.

This is what I call
" Absolute Tyranny, Tyranny of the unelected"
 
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Kumata

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All pvt con artist need to be put in jail --- everything need to be nationalized. --- political maggots won't do it --- cause haramkhors have there money embedded in crony system including that of current dispensation. --- Whole system is rotten. --- but Mudi ji has given vachan to his pals that they will be safe no problem.
you think babus are most efficient people in this world ... that we nationalise everything and than wait for 3 years for a telephone connection in trues BSNL style.... man where do u get your quota of malana cream,,,
 

sorcerer

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you think babus are most efficient people in this world ... that we nationalise everything and than wait for 3 years for a telephone connection in trues BSNL style.... man where do u get your quota of malana cream,,,
stop arguing with that double speak guy yo !
if whatever he says is true he makes money in stock markets with private companies..but his heart bleeds for the socialist companies in India
going by his logic..he should never be on Stock market cuz its a club for big companies
 

indiatester

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stop arguing with that double speak guy yo !
if whatever he says is true he makes money in stock markets with private companies..but his heart bleeds for the socialist companies in India
going by his logic..he should never be on Stock market cuz its a club for big companies
I have put him in my ignore list. Suggest you do the same.
We can discuss with reasonable people. Unreasonable people should not be entertained.
 

Haldiram

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https://www.indiatvnews.com/busines...-indian-economy-fy20-gdp-growth-moodys-602005


https://m.economictimes.com/news/ec...c-growth-severely-db/articleshow/74825429.cms

Growth now expected at 2.5% ye chal kya raha hai bhai. Ab recession hi reh gaya hai kya.

I won't take these reports at face value but since the world economy itself is heading for a downturn it's possible.

@Haldiram how possible do you think this is.

We really need to check our spending all this socialism will take us to the gutter.

I don't have any issue with government help during the viral outbreak so don't take it the other way.

I am mainly talking about the other factors.

This growth slow out with high unemployment is really troubling.
This is the PDF transcript of RBI governor's official statement made 2 days ago :

https://rbidocs.rbi.org.in/rdocs/Content/PDFs/GOVERNORSTATEMENT5DDD70F6A35D4D70B49174897BE39D9F.PDF

Take a look at what the RBI is saying >>

upload_2020-3-29_10-35-57.png


For 3 months all human activity will be frozen, so this quarter's GDP will be 0%. Even when the virus is gone, the financial impact will last. It will take time to get back the lost momentum.
 

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