Indian Economy: News and Discussion

shade

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2016
Messages
3,896
Likes
19,610
Country flag
high population density along with lack of proper basic growth both physically and mentally.

It will increase like it did for china in the coming decade.
Janab wo point nahi hai, the point is attempts to subtly demean Indians like this by this guy.
In last page he is jizzing over US and Soviets stealing German scientists, forgets to mention however how much paisa may have been spent over all to put man on moon or to build up defense industry from scratch in case of Soviets.

Koreans and Taiwanese and Wapanese bathed in Paisa and preferential trade deals by US during CW to make them strong enough economically and militarily to deter commies of the bat eating and vodka drinking varieties.
 

Knowitall

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Messages
2,728
Likes
9,000
Country flag
Shit we were Same compared to European till some 1500 despite constant wars and Mughals draining our resources. After 1500 Europeans started venturing out and establishing Colonies and draining resources,

We are not innovative enough argument is non convincing to me, we have the potential and we will see better days How fast that is the question

Besides we shouldn't bring these pseudo arguments like these when discussing economy
WW1 and WW2 to were major catalysts for the technological jump that the west has seen in the past decades this is basic knowledge.

As our country grows and improves our own technological growth is inevitable.

if anybody ever tells you that we are copying tech please tell them about operation paperclip or the multiple complaints that UK launched regularly against the US for stealing their tech and stuff.

no shame in copying and improving.
 
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
13,839
Likes
28,809
Country flag
Yes, indian Low IQ hai, Isliye "innovation" nahi hoti hai na? Is that what you wanted to say?
Abh Khush?

View attachment 68311

Aur ek chart lele, bohot low IQ hai hum :'(

View attachment 68312
IQ changes per patterns of Flynn effect. Indian urban IQ is way higher than that if rural and both of them would be much higher today than which were recorded in that old report.
Yes they have sugar daddies agree. But in some areas or say core technologies they are on top or would have if resource constraints & geography realities would not have tied down there hands. specially japan ( only Asian country which has what it takes ).
They are not the leaders of core techs in strategic areas where geopolitical, diplomatic factors will restrict accessibility of resources. You don't makes weapons and your economic might is not a threat to them because you yourself are their "B-team", obviously a sports doesn't pose threats to sovereignty of your enemies.

They have a lot from uncle Sam and somewhat better quality of general use machines partly because of historical experience and industrial base when they were great powers (and in fact were poor war-occupied countries like India).
Japan is only Asian which became imperialist during western era and hence has accumulated wealth, strategies and knowhow (your magical "what it takes").

Kindly stop spinning it and be specific on points now. Since your arguments seem to be YouTube and FB level comments with no sources, the onus is on you to prove your points.

You have claimed that India ranks nowhere in innovation and Japan/Germany/South Korea (which in fact are just vassal states) is global leaders on their own. Let's see how far you can pull it.

Because all these perceptions are what fly on social media and aren't even remotely related to reality, you aren't going to have a field time farting this time.
Yes they did. German themselves copy many things from others.
Indeed, innovation is inspired. If there is any advanced innovative and technology companies outside west, they can only be traced in China & India. Even if they are low in numbers.
 

Swiftfarts

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
605
Likes
1,002
Country flag
IQ changes per patterns of Flynn effect. Indian urban IQ is way higher than that if rural and both of them would be much higher today than which were recorded in that old report.
This is complete wrong. flynn effect only works up to certain point until genetic and geography bottleneck comes into play. Brain size in humans is all that matters. Of course if you don't want to use it , that's a different matter all together. IQ is directly related to brain size ( race , ethnicity ) , geography society, culture and environment you are brought up in.
.
Kindly stop spinning it and be specific on points now. Since your arguments seem to be YouTube and FB level comments with no sources, the onus is on you to prove your points.

You have claimed that India ranks nowhere in innovation and Japan/Germany/South Korea (which in fact are just vassal states) is global leaders on their own. Let's see how far you can pull it.

Because all these perceptions are what fly on social media and aren't even remotely related to reality, you aren't going to have a field time farting this time.
What claims ? Tell me one genuine inovation from us and compared it to Germany and japan alone. One Google Search would have been sufficient.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_inventions_and_discoveries
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_inventions_and_discoveries

. Indeed, innovation is inspired. If there is any advanced innovative and technology companies outside west, they can only be traced in China & India. Even if they are low in numbers
and what major inovation have they done so far ?
 

Bhumihar

Cheeni KLPDhokebaaz
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
8,062
Likes
30,040
Country flag
I am about to tear down this Nibba @Swiftfarts aka south block.

He has awakened my autism.

This is the article he posts every time when their is argument against Pvt sector.


State of innovation: Busting the private-sector myth


So As U can see we have myth Busters over here.

First Claim

IMAGES of tech entrepreneurs such as Mark Zuckerberg and Steve Jobs are continually thrown at us by politicians, economists and the media. The message is that innovation is best left in the hands of these individuals and the wider private sector, and that the state – bureaucratic and sluggish – should keep out. A telling 2012 article in The Economist claimed that, to be innovative, governments must “stick to the basics” such as spending on infrastructure, education and skills, leaving the rest to the revolutionary garage tinkerers.

Yet it is ideology, not evidence, that fuels this image. A quick look at the pioneering technologies of the past century points to the state, not the private sector, as the most decisive player in the game.

Whether an innovation will be a success is uncertain and it can take longer than traditional banks or venture capitalists are willing to wait. In countries such as the US, China, Singapore and Denmark the state has provided the kind of patient and long-term finance new technologies need to get off the ground. Investments of this kind have often been driven by big missions, from putting a human on the moon, to solving climate change. This has required not only funding basic research – the typical “public good” that most economists admit needs state help – but applied research and seed funding too.
So fist the author tells u why capitalist aren't all that good.

nothing to see here its opinion.

Claim 2
Apple is a perfect example. In its early stages the company received government cash support via a $500,000 small business investment company grant. And every technology that makes the iPhone a smartphone owes its vision and funding to the state: the internet, GPS, touchscreen displays and even the voice-activated smartphone assistant Siri all received state cash. The US Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) bankrolled the internet, and the CIA and the military funded GPS. So, although the US is sold to us as the model example of progress through private enterprise, innovation there has benefited from a very interventionist state.
So apparently We should thanks the US military for funding the internet and GPS.
So good. But were the niggas in pvt sector suppose to work for free? Back when PVT sector was budding and the market was still heavily regulated by Gov we should thank the Gov that they even considered funding a project that they needed in the first place.

Thank The gov and Socialism Goyim.


Claim 3

The examples don’t just come from the military arena, either. The US National Institutes of Health spends around $30 billion every year on pharmaceutical and biotechnology research and is responsible for 75 per cent of the most innovative new drugs annually. Even the algorithm behind Google benefited from US National Science Foundation (NSF) funding.
Oh Mah Gawd Thank u gov.

Spending 30 billion shekels, gov is the greatest thing ever.

Now how much do Pvt sector compare

RQ-Illustration-6.png



Oh vey what's this 5x more investment .

But the ebin told me We should be thankful to the almighty gov only and Filthy capitalist only work for profit.


want some more data?




If u want more info go here


health.PNG


Notice the University, hospitals, health association fund are also partly funded by pvt donations


Claim 4

The fact that companies like Apple and Google pay hardly any tax – relative to their massive profits – is all the more problematic, given the significant contributions they have had from the government. Thus, the “real” economy (made up of goods and services) has experienced a shift similar to that of the “financial” economy: the risk has been increasingly moved to the public sector while the private sector keeps the rewards. Indeed, one of the most perverse trends in recent years is that while the state has increased its funding of R&D and innovation, the private sector is apparently de-committing itself. In the name of “open innovation” big pharma is closing down its R&D labs, relying more on small biotech companies and public funds to do the hard stuff. Is this a symbiotic public-private partnership or a parasitic one?

It is time for the state to get something back for its investments. How? First, this requires an admission that the state does more than just fix market failures – the usual way economists justify state spending. The state has shaped and created markets and, in doing so, took on great risks. Second, we must ask where the reward is for such risk-taking and admit that it is no longer coming from the tax systems. Third, we must think creatively about how that reward can come back.

There are many ways for this to happen. The repayment of some loans for students depends on income, so why not do this for companies? When Google’s future owners received a grant from the NSF, the contract should have said: if/when the beneficiaries of the grant make $X billion, a contribution will be made back to the NSF.

Other ways include giving the state bank or agency that invested a stake in the company. A good example is Finland, where the government-backed innovation fund SITRA retained equity when it invested in Nokia. There is also the possibility of keeping a share of the intellectual property rights, which are almost totally given away in the current system.

Recognising the state as a lead risk-taker, and enabling it to reap a reward, will not only make the innovation system stronger, it will also spread the profits of growth more fairly. This will ensure that education, health and transport can benefit from state investments in innovation, instead of just the small number of people who see themselves as wealth creators, while relying increasingly on the courageous, entrepreneurial state.
Now their real intention come out.

Oh vey the capitalist pig hardly pay taxes.

Ebin eat the rich.

Any nignog with free time becomes a writer these days


The author omitted side by side comparative data and went on to harp about one sided achievements.

They want us to thank the gov for taking taxes from jobs created by pvt sector and investing the same back into the public.

Oh ebin always remember to thanks the gov except for when its Republican.




Here is more data

invest.PNG
 
Last edited:

Bhumihar

Cheeni KLPDhokebaaz
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
8,062
Likes
30,040
Country flag
Yes, indian Low IQ hai, Isliye "innovation" nahi hoti hai na? Is that what you wanted to say?
Abh Khush?

View attachment 68311

Aur ek chart lele, bohot low IQ hai hum :'(

View attachment 68312
China fudged with the data to get the result this high, they only tested in the Urban and Sub Urban areas.

If we Get the diet and education same as European for 30 50 years than we will reach an IQ of 100+ which is the average IQ of schools here anyway.
 

Bhumihar

Cheeni KLPDhokebaaz
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
8,062
Likes
30,040
Country flag
Let me get this one thing straight The value of a Pvt sector should be measured in how much net wroth they have + how much they pay their employee +- how much money they park in their native countries + how much they donate.

don't forget people pay Goods & Service tax and also Income tax,

the gov is bound to invest that money back into u

this is their duty, koi aihsan nahi kar rahe humpe.

The value of Pvt sector is more than just the transactional amount in the market, comrades never get this because they don't have a understanding of economy and cash flow
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2020
Messages
237
Likes
1,205
Country flag
One of the major issues we have is the lack of a magazine that publishes science, technology news, analysis, achievements etc happening inside India as an easy read for the common person. There’s a lot happening in Indi, despite the brain drain. A magazine like PopularScience (https://www.popsci.com/) is needed to make people interested in science and science careers.
Science largely means R&D moneys. The leading countries invest anywhere between 2.5%-5% of their GDP in R&D. We invest less than 1% of GDP.
Science is also more appreciated in higher HDI societies. People whose basic needs are taken care of and have decent living prospects won’t object to government spending a higher portion of budget on R&D. We are not there yet. Let’s look at employment as a data point for this. In advanced nations, 10% or less people are involved in agriculture labor (generally lower paying jobs). In India, 50-60% are in agriculture. Labor participation rate is just 41% for men and a dismal 25% for women.
we need to upskill both our men and women to move them away from rural activities and agriculture to urban/semi-urban/industrial areas to work in industrial/service jobs. government’s skill India program is precisely meant for this.
the biggest reason why we are behind in skills is:
- colonial powers deliberately kept us, Chinese, Africa etc. away from the industrial revolution. They just sucked all our raw materials but did not make anything in India. Did nothing to promote scientific fervor in colonies to a large population. losing our independence set us back greatly.
- our kings and nawabs did not build a single university or college to promote disciplined scientific learning to their subjects. The few kings like maharaja of Mysore who setup such universities did so much later, after becoming vassals. Then Christians (to educate ‘conquered’ people) setup several science colleges in south India, though. The guindy engineering college in Madras is the oldest in Asia - reasons why the south shows more scientific fervor. And South Indians pursue more scientific careers. Note in the UK, Oxford and Cambridge universities were created much before the Brits set out to colonize. As a result, modern instruments like Patents Act was established in the UK in 1600s. We were behind even before the East India company set foot in.
- Congress , which though setup universities and colleges, did it an elitist way limiting them to a chosen few and failed to do practical things like upskill citizens in big big numbers and take science all the way to the home of an adivasi even. Congress‘ elitist lefties like Nehru just did not dream big, bootlicked the west, did not invest in country wide infrastructure, did not urbanize saying India lives in its villages, did not introduce private enterprise on a mass scale, nationalized everything, criminalized politics and introduced massive corruption that has prevented us from participating in proper representative democracy. They ultimately bankrupted us in 1991 due to their terrible policies. Congress disastrous policies were the single reason for massive scientific brain drain. Who does R&D in a bankrupt nation? If it were not for courageous people in ISRO and DRDO and CSIR we wouldn’t have had any innovation at all, and would be at the level of Congo.

it is very important for people who blame us for a lack of innovation to also acknowledge that under colonial and then Congress rule, we suffered hugely with the worst HDI in the world in 1947. The deliberate stealing of resources and disallowing factories in India so the Brits can turn around and sell their finished goods is the reason why Mahatma Gandhi asked everyone to go vocal for local (I.e boycott cotton made clothes, wear khadi). We have slowly climbed out of the dark hole the Brits pushed us in,despite a corrupt, weak congress keeping us backward. We became a nuclear and space power despite western sanctions (remember how the west did everything to deny us cryogenic technologies).

we need to get our per capita income to $5000+ so people’s basic needs are met, and then open the big tap on R&D spend. Until we get to a $5 trillion+ economy levels, we simply cannot afford massive R&D. We will get there, we will spend on R&D, we will reverse the brain drain and show the world all that we can achieve. Top Indian scientists overseas will return only when there equally exciting opportunities in India being funded generously. Keep voting in strong governments who put India first. And we will be a leading R&D power.
 
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
13,839
Likes
28,809
Country flag
This is complete wrong. flynn effect only works up to certain point until genetic and geography bottleneck comes into play. Brain size in humans is all that matters. Of course if you don't want to use it , that's a different matter all together. IQ is directly related to brain size ( race , ethnicity ) , geography society, culture and environment you are brought up in.
This is completely assumed and stupid definition of effect. And would mean that either racial aspects have insignificant impact against Flynn effect on intelligence and races don't matter or they rapidly evolve through generations as per environment in a way of Flynn effect.

Because if it was not so, races which are relatively poor today would not have a been civilisational foundations of that time when those which are rich today were just a group of hunters and gathers. Their discoveries and innovations are our indispensable needs today.
What claims ? Tell me one genuine inovation from us and compared it to Germany and japan alone. One Google Search would have been sufficient.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_inventions_and_discoveries
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_inventions_and_discoveries
and what major inovation have they done so far ?
Epic fail!

What kind of "genuine" innovations you wish to reflect by throwing Wikipedia lists?


Digit numeral systems, trigonometry and astronomy/allied architecture from India and gun powder, paper etc. from China fade most of inventions from rest of world even today.

In case you are able to grasp difference between "discoveries" (development of a completely new aspect) and "innovation" (improvement within previous one), there have been limited or no major discoveries in near past of mankind.

As for innovation in modern era, innovation indices and research papers published by countries are every year are sufficient to shun down your argument. Given that China and India have even more diverse sectors than Germany and Japan due to strategic competitions with imperialist powers, their "reinvented wheels" make their innovation lists simply unlimited.
 

hit&run

Mod
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
9,989
Likes
28,045
Country flag
Yes, indian Low IQ hai, Isliye "innovation" nahi hoti hai na? Is that what you wanted to say?
Abh Khush?

View attachment 68311

Aur ek chart lele, bohot low IQ hai hum :'(

View attachment 68312
What was the source of these stats, what was the sample size, was population density normalised? I am asking because this has been going on for quite long and it first started on a propaganda portal first.
 

IndianSpiderman

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
108
Likes
603
Country flag
This national IQ number thingy is the new phrenology. A novel way of proving that us darkies are idiots, like they did 100 years ago, and ended up looking like idiots themselves for it. The irony lies in the fact that the folks telling us this are the cause the planet is such a mess. They're the ones behind the mass extinction of species, the climate change shit show and the decimation of so much of the world's people and cultures. It seems to me that the world could use a lot more of our flavour of intelligence now.

If there was any remaining doubt, 2020 is confirmation of their lack of wisdom. Having ego battles over whether to wear a mask, and taking 3 weeks to count votes pretty much clinched the case for it as far as I'm concerned. Their leaders seem less intelligent than bonobo monkeys, as well. Case in point, UK's PM, who went and shook hands with every patient in a corona ward to prove a point, and ended up contracting Covid soon after. Beat that. lol.

From what I understand of IQ, its validity is still far from established. It measures one factor out of a host of factors (all not clearly yet understood) that make up human intelligence.
 

N4tsula67

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
986
Likes
4,265
Country flag
What was the source of these stats, what was the sample size, was population density normalised? I am asking because this has been going on for quite long and it first started on a propaganda portal first.
All these IQ test and some other test charts are mostly based on western standards. Just like Western Political Compas doesn't work on Indian properly (seriously according to that I'm neo-liberal🤣). Tho this kind of analogy would be a weak argument and oversimplification but my point is most of these studies are heavily biased towards west because they consider western standard as the ideal standard. Many other factors like type of society,way of life, philosophies, religion, food habits etc are ignored. Also it all depends on sample size,place etc
 

hit&run

Mod
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
9,989
Likes
28,045
Country flag
Putting India in lower middle-income economies and then assessing its GII is the most rational approach. The early movers advantage was all it took them to reach where they are today. The innovation starts with seed investment and then followed up with more investment. Why India became poor need no details. We were ripped off almost 40 trillion USD is 250 years before we got our independence.

The IQ debate can be linked to our innovation index and it’s upward trends suggest that the scientific prowesses are improving with opportunity and economy.
 
Last edited:

hit&run

Mod
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
9,989
Likes
28,045
Country flag
Pravachan Mode on:

It will be important to note that consumption lead growth is not sustainable for long and the per capita income will hit a plateau which will be lower than most of the develop economies even after a good growth of 20-30 years.

Using the escape velocity trite we need periodic stimulation of innovative break throughs. And to be honest (I may be wrong) we have already hit the sealing in that regards.

Our strength in Services must be given a serious attention as a strategic national priority. The other saviour will be ‘value addition’ but that too has finite dividends.

Coming back again to consumption lead growth which is super important now and will lead to sufficient wealth creation to feed innovation and even before that the detoxification of economy and sundry items like reforms and policy implementation and finally industrialisation there is a lot hard work that has to go.

The biggest impediment to manage above loop is cults backed leftist ideologies, illiteracy, vested interests activism and lack of political resolve. How we are going to chose our heroes and influencers who can help us market these priorities will decide how smoothly we can sail this boat towards innovation lead economy.

Just today the very first time I glanced through Punjabi actors, celebrities and singers’ twitter accounts. The display of their religiosity was nothing but cringe and nauseous. On top of that benefiting from technologies and new age industrial and management infrastructure these clowns are still locked in medieval eras with strong affinity to woke and popular victimhood narratives. That little sample has actually put me off given millions of people follow them and ingest whatever they are feed with.

Electing an honest leader who has been always sensitive and liberal and hardworking is not enough it seems. They can simply lie or play indifferent indefinitely.

What is the solution then we have? Keep fighting?
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2020
Messages
237
Likes
1,205
Country flag
Since this IQ debate is based on dodgy data. The more accurate assessment can be made on GII.
View attachment 68320
View attachment 68321
Some individual areas India can easily improve (probably has already improved) are using technology to better deliver government services (the CCP is doing this very very well) which also has the effect of drastically reducing corruption by cutting out the middle man. The other area is to improve women's participation in the labor force. See details of India's performance below (red boxes drawn by me are the improvement areas needed)
India_innov_index_score_details.png
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top