Indian Economy: News and Discussion

LondonParisTokyo

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This is wrong. MSP is only in mandi and not outside. Govt has given consesion to pvt players so that they can benefit and monopolies the system outside mandi by tax brake. BJP govt is lying. Ultimate goal is to end MSP down the line so pvt player can fix prices without any regulations.
This is grossly disingenious and now how the private market works. It's unfortunate. India has suffered at the hands of socialism long enough. The private industry will go by what the market dictates. If something is in demand, the price goes up, if something is in glut, the price goes down. It's very, very simple. MSP makes it almost impossible for farmers to know what to grow and what not to grow. In addition, by being able to **only** sell produce to a particular APMC (which is often run by a political party affiliated person (INLD, SAD, INC, etc)), farmers are hamstrung from the get-go by what they can and cannot do. Eliminating APMC opens up the (liberalizes) the market. MSP is dictated by the market itself. This is basic economics. Supply, and demand.

The government has not given any damn concession to anybody. The only concession given was probably related to timeline for implementation. This is the need of the hour to liberalize the market and make doing business easier. By eliminating APMCs, the government has allowed for farmers to potentially quadruple their profit leading to the ability to have technological improvements, which will hopefully demonstrate the obsolescence of farming.

Tl;dr: Learn economics, bro.
 

LondonParisTokyo

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so cat is finally out of the bag, real purpose is to destroy small farmers and there livelihood not to better there prospect. Nobody is stopping pvt or corporatae players to enter , everyone is asking for a guarantee and fair MSP by law with govt oversight. Pvt player always existed and they never used to pay fair prices , they never did. This look like a proper way of monopolisation and making farmers labourer in there own land. How low one can go , even your enemies won't go this low in my opinion.
What are you even talking about bro? How many farmers farm on their own land vs. are just employees on somebody elses land? What you are talking about makes no sense, which is unfortunate. Your example attacking Jio was literally all anybody needed to know when it comes to your understanding of economics. Lol. Crazy.

"We should all keep BSNL because, yes the service and speeds suck, but people have jobs! Jio may be better, but, uh, reasons"

Come on dude
 

LondonParisTokyo

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I will end with this: Competition is not a bad thing. Competition is survival of the fittest. If you want to survive, you will find a way to adapt. India needs more competition, not less. Jio outcompeted everybody, which is how they are as successful as they are now.
 

Swiftfarts

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This is grossly disingenious and now how the private market works. It's unfortunate. India has suffered at the hands of socialism long enough. The private industry will go by what the market dictates. If something is in demand, the price goes up, if something is in glut, the price goes down. It's very, very simple. MSP makes it almost impossible for farmers to know what to grow and what not to grow. In addition, by being able to **only** sell produce to a particular APMC (which is often run by a political party affiliated person (INLD, SAD, INC, etc)), farmers are hamstrung from the get-go by what they can and cannot do. Eliminating APMC opens up the (liberalizes) the market. MSP is dictated by the market itself. This is basic economics. Supply, and demand.
Tl;dr: Learn economics, bro.
So here's the guy openly claiming that purpose of the bill is to loot farmers and his land not to benefit farmers but to destroy him. it was the grand plan all along. You can keep your BS to yourself about condition of farmers before. I come from farmer background.
The government has not given any damn concession to anybody. The only concession given was probably related to timeline for implementation. This is the need of the hour to liberalize the market and make doing business easier. By eliminating APMCs, the government has allowed for farmers to potentially quadruple their profit leading to the ability to have technological improvements, which will hopefully demonstrate the obsolescence of farming.
Govt has given consesion. Look like you don't want to read because you can't or you don't want to read at all. Giving trader tax break outside govt regulated mandi is called consesion and advantage. Lagta hai paday nahi aap school main theek dang se.
 

Bhumihar

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I come from farmer background.
Most of us folks living in India come from the same Baground.
Giving trader tax break outside govt regulated mandi is called consesion and advantage
Is tere a timeline for fax break or will it go on forever? Tax breaks are given to increase profit margin and kickstart to a scheme.

I don't see your point here middlemen already inflate the price of food something that u fear private player's would do isn't that already happening.
 

prasadr14

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So here's the guy openly claiming that purpose of the bill is to loot farmers and his land not to benefit farmers but to destroy him. it was the grand plan all along. You can keep your BS to yourself about condition of farmers before. I come from farmer background.

Govt has given consesion. Look like you don't want to read because you can't or you don't want to read at all. Giving trader tax break outside govt regulated mandi is called consesion and advantage. Lagta hai paday nahi aap school main theek dang se.
Are you on drugs by any chance?
Everyone in India has a farmer background. Everyone's grand dad farmed or was involved in farming. Most Indians above 30 would have spent their summer holidays in villages, enjoying swimming in wells, farming, catching fish, flirting with the pretty village girls...

Now coming to your rant,
yes, it's a rant. You have no bloody idea how small farmers are exploited by mandi, the middle men. Many times these farmers feel hopeless and just leave their produce.
The flip side is that a number of farmers who have made agreements with corporations enjoy steady income.
MSP is not going away. Farmers now have options, they can either get MSP or they can agreements with anyone and have benefits of stability.
 

Swiftfarts

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What are you even talking about bro? How many farmers farm on their own land vs. are just employees on somebody elses land? What you are talking about makes no sense, which is unfortunate. Your example attacking Jio was literally all anybody needed to know when it comes to your understanding of economics. Lol. Crazy.

"We should all keep BSNL because, yes the service and speeds suck, but people have jobs! Jio may be better, but, uh, reasons"

Come on dude
What i am talking about make perfect sense. Look like you to dumb to understand simple English. Majority of farmers in this country are small farmers and landholders. Pvt player fixing prices with no regulations will kill them. Look like you have deep skin in this game. that you are defending this anti poor farmer bill. How low can people go. Is there no humanity left.
 

Bhumihar

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What i am talking about make perfect sense. Look like you to dumb to understand simple English. Majority of farmers in this country are small farmers and landholders. Pvt player fixing prices with no regulations will kill them. Look like you have deep skin in this game. that you are defending this anti poor farmer bill. How low can people go. Is there no humanity left.
U are the one making emotional arguments here.
The mandi isn't being abolished. Farmers are free to sell their products outside of mandi if they feel like it.
What's the issue here?
 

Swiftfarts

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Most of us folks living in India come from the same Baground.

Is tere a timeline for fax break or will it go on forever? Tax breaks are given to increase profit margin and kickstart to a scheme.

I don't see your point here middlemen already inflate the price of food something that u fear private player's would do isn't that already happening.
govt has given undue advantage on purpose to pvt players so mandi based MSP vanish down the line. MSP is not guarantee by pvt players. Same law is in you own state Bihar and farmer condition is in toilet. I am not against pvt player or bringing transparency, just guarantee MSP by law, irrespective of who buy product, either govt or pvt players. There is reason why govt is not doing this.
BJP want to destroy small farmers in long run.
U are the one making emotional arguments here.
The mandi isn't being abolished. Farmers are free to sell their products outside of mandi if they feel like it.
What's the issue here?
The mandi will be abolished overtime since govt has given tax consesion to traders to buy outside mandi( undue advantage , not level playing field). If there is no revenue to Mandis ,how will they work or run ? and after few years down the line when pvt players monopolise the system. Who will guarantee that MSP will be there o,r fair prices ? since there is no govt oversight ? I am emotional cause i have a farmer background, small farmers to be precise. Chandi ki chamach muha main lekar peda to nahi huai hain hum.
 

Swiftfarts

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MSP is not going away. Farmers now have options, they can either get MSP or they can agreements with anyone and have benefits of stability.
Do you even read or what ? MSP is only in Mandis. Pvt player or corporate won't give guarantee MSP. Govt has given consesion( undue advantage , not level playing field ) by different ways for pvt players , traders outside Mandis to operate. Overtime mandi will need to close down due to no revenue so ,will be MSP. Than pvt player will fix prices on there own since there is no regulations and oversight. Why govt is not guarantee simple MSP or oversight regarding fair prices by law for everyone? Jab niyat main hi khot hai to kya kare.
 

prasadr14

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The mandi will be abolished overtime since govt has given tax consesion to traders to buy outside mandi( undue advantage , not level playing field). If there is no revenue to Mandis ,how will they work or run ? and after few years down the line when pvt players monopolise the system. Who will guarantee that MSP will be there o,r fair prices ? since there is no govt oversight ? I am emotional cause i have a farmer background, small farmers to be precise. Chandi ki chamach muha main lekar peda to nahi huai hain hum.
Mandis are there to serve farmers,
right now, they are NOT doing that.

MSP being there or not is NOT related to mandis.

Don't confuse the issues.
Btw, MSP currently does not every crop & produce. Only few essentials (some political like SugarCane) are covered by MSP. Rest of the produce goes through mandis where farmers are exploited by middle men,


You are talking as if each and crop produced by farmers have MSP..
LMAO - and you claim you are a farmer.

Let me know what the MSP is for Bananas, Mangoes, onions, Tomatoes, ground nuts etc etc.
Do you know badly onion and tomato farmers are exploited by mandis? This extends to hundreds of other produce as well.

Only clowns who have vested interests being middle men would oppose this law,
it's a god send for each and every farmer...
 

prasadr14

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Do you even read or what ? MSP is only in Mandis. Pvt player or corporate won't give guarantee MSP. Govt has given consesion( undue advantage ) by different ways for pvt players , traders outside Mandis to operate. Overtime mandi will need to close down due to no revenue so ,will be MSP. Than pvt player will fix prices on there own since there is no regulations and oversight. Why govt is not guarantee simple MSP or oversight regarding fair prices by law for everyone? Jab niyat main hi khot hai to kya kare.
You are now going down the dumb and dumber route.

FACT 1: Mandis are not going away
FACT 2: MSP is not going away
FACT 3: MSP is not related to Mandis in any sense. Mandis are one of the means but not all
FACT 4: Most of the produce by farmers IS NOT covered in MSP

When govt removes MSP, then you can come and cry here.
BUT
if private players pay farmers more and make MSP & mandis irrelevant, it's FANTASTIC news. why crib when farmers are getting more and end consumers are paying less?
 

Swiftfarts

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Mandis are there to serve farmers,
right now, they are NOT doing that.

MSP being there or not is NOT related to mandis.

Don't confuse the issues.
Btw, MSP currently does not every crop & produce. Only few essentials (some political like SugarCane) are covered by MSP. Rest of the produce goes through mandis where farmers are exploited by middle men,


You are talking as if each and crop produced by farmers have MSP..
LMAO - and you claim you are a farmer.

Let me know what the MSP is for Bananas, Mangoes, onions, Tomatoes, ground nuts etc etc.
Do you know badly onion and tomato farmers are exploited by mandis? This extends to hundreds of other produce as well.

Only clowns who have vested interests being middle men would oppose this law,
it's a god send for each and every farmer...
Plz stop. you have no idea what you are talking about. Mandis were specially created to deal with traders fixing prices on there own, before 1947 it was quite common. There is a reason why MSP was brought to provide fair price to farmer minus production cost. Of course MSP is not for every product but we are talking about law guaranteeing one and fair prices and govt oversight.
You are now going down the dumb and dumber route.

FACT 1: Mandis are not going away
FACT 2: MSP is not going away
FACT 3: MSP is not related to Mandis in any sense. Mandis are one of the means but not all
FACT 4: Most of the produce by farmers IS NOT covered in MSP

When govt removes MSP, then you can come and cry here.
BUT
if private players pay farmers more and make MSP & mandis irrelevant, it's FANTASTIC news. why crib when farmers are getting more and end consumers are paying less?
Another BS , jab revenue hi nahi aayega to mandi chalegi kesay ?
.FACT 1: Mandis are not going away
Wrong mandi will close over time.
. FACT 2: MSP is not going away
Wrong , MSP will go down the line since mandi will be closed due to no revenue , and govt has given no assurance in written or by law for MSP in or outside mandi. So how are you claiming MSP will not go away hain!.
. FACT 3: MSP is not related to Mandis in any sense. Mandis are one of the means but not all
Wrong: it is related. MSP is guaranteed by govt. pvt player or corporates doesn't not come under it. Govt has given undue advantage to pvt players to monopolies the sytem fact , in order to crumble Mandis, instead of reforming them.
When govt removes MSP, then you can come and cry here.
BUT
if private players pay farmers more and make MSP & mandis irrelevant, it's FANTASTIC news. why crib when farmers are getting more and end consumers are paying less?
so as you claim that pvt player will give higher price than MSP, which i have no doubt they will like Jio free internet for few months , than they should have no problem with minimum support price ( MSP ) since they do care about farmers like modi ji. i wonder why they are not supporting such move. :)
bihar has same law since 2006 , many bihari farmers try to sell there product to traders working for MSP based Mandis of Haryana and Punjab , instead of pvt players in his own state.:rofl:
 

Bhumihar

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govt has given undue advantage on purpose to pvt players so mandi based MSP vanish down the line. MSP is not guarantee by pvt players. Same law is in you own state Bihar and farmer condition is in toilet. I am not against pvt player or bringing transparency, just guarantee MSP by law, irrespective of who buy product, either govt or pvt players. There is reason why govt is not doing this.
BJP want to destroy small farmers in long run.

The mandi will be abolished overtime since govt has given tax consesion to traders to buy outside mandi( undue advantage , not level playing field). If there is no revenue to Mandis ,how will they work or run ? and after few years down the line when pvt players monopolise the system. Who will guarantee that MSP will be there o,r fair prices ? since there is no govt oversight ? I am emotional cause i have a farmer background, small farmers to be precise. Chandi ki chamach muha main lekar peda to nahi huai hain hum.
We do have MSP and Mandis here in Bihar and also the reason Bihar being piss poor is completely unrelated to this.

Also are the Tax breaks going to Remain forever or is there a timeline given. Usually these polices are implemented in short term to kickstart a scheme.
 

Bhumihar

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many bihari farmers try to sell there product to traders working for MSP based Mandis of Haryana and Punjab
Ha bhai transportation charge to jaise exist hi nahi karta he.
Bihar ke log bihar me hi bechte he humare yaha koi strawberry Kiwi nahi ho raha jo transportation charge justify kare.

MSP isn't going away but they will only remain in Mandis.
If the farmer feel like it they will sell outside the Mandi if not they will sell in Mandi.
 

avknight1408

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Relevant to current discussion about agriculture here. Last year I had posted about contract farming. In that post I have linked two articles. Both were published years ago but are very insightful. Please read them.
My post below.
 

Swiftfarts

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Ha bhai transportation charge to jaise exist hi nahi karta he.
Bihar ke log bihar me hi bechte he humare yaha koi strawberry Kiwi nahi ho raha jo transportation charge justify kare.

MSP isn't going away but they will only remain in Mandis.
If the farmer feel like it they will sell outside the Mandi if not they will sell in Mandi.
Oh bhai mere jab mandi mai revenue rahega hi nahi to mandi chalegi kesay hain? Govt has given tax brakes to traders/ buyers outside mandi. They were regulated before with 6%, 8%, 14% etc taxes levied on them according to there respective States . Now why would i go to mandi , i will go directly to farmer's. Here is the problem , since there is no oversight or regulation outside, how do you make sure farmers get the adequate price, there is no law guaranteeing price or protection mechanism for farmer's. They are at the mercy of pvt player or big corporations. Mandi will close down where MSP is guaranteed by govt for some crops due to no revenue over time. No such thing outside Mandis . people are making assumptions intentionally that pvt player or corporate will pay higher prices, which they might until monopolisation is complete and than lower the prices.
govt has given no guarantee or assurances in written for either fair price or MSP or any regulations or oversight. They are saying MSP will not go but when Mandis close down due to no revenue or taxes than what ? all farmers is asking is govt bring a bill guaranteeing MSP by law irrespective of whoever buy either corporate or govt. This govt is trying to con his biggest voters big time.
 
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Haldilal

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Yall Nibbiar Who is to blame for that 3% figure? India is an agrarian country and the gormint made agriculture tax free. So the gormint themselves decided that a select few urban dwellers should pay taxes and fines on behalf of 100% of the population, but rural folk can dodge taxes legally, steal electricity from wire hooks and even get a loan waiver if enough of them gang up and decide not to pay their loan back. Itni pampering toh daamad ki bhi nahi hoti. Jisko jamta hai vo kare agriculture, kaun mana kar raha hai? :)

There are farmers in Punjab who have very high yields and live a rich lifestyle. Waisa kuch kardo toh kaun tokega tumko? the aspersions are being cast on people who are frankly shit at their jobs. Year after year they become a burden on the exchequer. There's crop insurance schemes to tide over unpredictable weather. Taxpayer money is not chanda. The innocent taxpayer pays taxes in the name of the pipe dream of 'roads and railways' that the income tax advertisements show him just before tax filing season. He sees it as an investment for a better future and nation building, only to see that his money is being siphoned off to bail out some other crony businessman pretending to be a farmer.

In Maharashtra, many of these Cooperative Factories 'farmers' are NCP party workers involved in Sharad Pawar's sugarcane empire. Declaring oneself a 'farmer' is just a way to get a tax discount on other allied activities like transporting the sugarcane and other processing activities. They buy tractors and trucks for transport, ply it around for other transportation work all year round and conveniently drop their names in the fishbowl of 'farm loan waiver' discount.

A for-profit industry is being treated with kid gloves like a non-profit industry. Compare the quantum of the default to that of the cumulative annual default by farmers in India, on a recurring basis. If an industry needs yearly bailouts, it's an ailing and inefficient industry. Needs new management.

Haldiram & Haldilal Co. :)
 

Bhumihar

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They were regulated before with 6%, 8%, 14% etc taxes levied on them according to there respective States .
Is it permanent or is there a time limit for tax break?
Now why would i go to mandi , i will go directly to farmer's.
For middlemen like u it is obviously a bad deal.
U would buy products at a set MSP and then sell it at inflated prices to the shops.
The mandis will exist as long as thr Famers feel like it is profitable for them and when it's not it will simply close down.
Here is the problem , since there is no oversight or regulation outside, how do you make sure farmers get the adequate price, there is no law guaranteeing price or protection mechanism for farmer's
Bo such things exist in free market. The prices will be determined with Supply and Demand.
all farmers is asking is govt bring a bill guaranteeing MSP by law irrespective of whoever buy either corporate or govt. This govt is trying to con his biggest voters big time.
Whats the point of free market if they implement MSP out of Mandi?
 

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