Indian Economy: News and Discussion

Haldilal

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sorcerer

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Haldilal

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Me Knew its. :)

Ya'll Nibbiars So someone asked me to evalute a pair trade in two companies in the same industry and working largely in the same region. The sector is commoditised in my view. I presented a concept paper on why they should go LONG company A, and short Company B.

My concept paper highlighted why structurally Co A will do relatively better vs Co B...structural cost advantages, its aggressive growth strategy vs consolidation at Co B etc, that sort of tbing. But there was an hiccup. Since March 2020 Co Bs share price has fallen 60%, and Co As has fallen but recovered so is down only 20%. And im saying go long the co that has recovered and go short the company that is already quite down.

Consequent to the fall Co Bs valuation multiples are at 20% discount to Co As. An important rule i follow is never short on valuations. But i had to do more work on this. So I wondered how do I demonstrate that despite the correction Co B is still a good short play. here is what I did: Value of any company is made up of two components: A. Value of its existing business B. Present Value of Future Opp PVGO I assumed that neither company will see future growth. So assumed PVGO = 0.

I then input the data in the following formula: Mkt cap Co A = expected steady state PAT / Required return + PVGO (0) Here i know mkt cap, and have made a complex earnings model for steady state PAT..pvgo is a assumed to be zero. I solved the equation for the required return. For company A i got the required return as 8.5%, and Co B i got it as 10.5%. So its clear that the market had already priced in higher risk for Co. B. But how much higher?! Just 200 bps! Then I asked myself is 200 bps enough of higher risk priced in between a company that will be expanding capacity by 80%, vs a company that's reducing capacity by 20%? It is my opinion that it's not. Either absolutely or relatively. As such i stuck to my view of the long short trade. Just an interesting analysis that i thought students of investing might be interested in.

Bhagwan Ucha.
 
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Haldilal

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Obviously India. The return on savings and growth of net worth of any property you invest in is far better in India.
Ya'll Nibbiars many wish to stay abroad. Create a non-INR portfolio too , so much of tax saving And this is a very genuine question, know a few persons having actually done this, and a few mulling it. THE many Wish had scope to make similar income abroad, would nice to Singapore/HK.
 

indiatester

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Me Knew its. :)

Ya'll Nibbiars So someone asked me to evalute a pair trade in two companies in the same industry and working largely in the same region. The sector is commoditised in my view. I presented a concept paper on why they should go LONG company A, and short Company B.

My concept paper highlighted why structurally Co A will do relatively better vs Co B...structural cost advantages, its aggressive growth strategy vs consolidation at Co B etc, that sort of tbing. But there was an hiccup. Since March 2020 Co Bs share price has fallen 60%, and Co As has fallen but recovered so is down only 20%. And im saying go long the co that has recovered and go short the company that is already quite down.

Consequent to the fall Co Bs valuation multiples are at 20% discount to Co As. An important rule i follow is never short on valuations. But i had to do more work on this. So I wondered how do I demonstrate that despite the correction Co B is still a good short play. here is what I did: Value of any company is made up of two components: A. Value of its existing business B. Present Value of Future Opp PVGO I assumed that neither company will see future growth. So assumed PVGO = 0.

I then input the data in the following formula: Mkt cap Co A = expected steady state PAT / Required return + PVGO (0) Here i know mkt cap, and have made a complex earnings model for steady state PAT..pvgo is a assumed to be zero. I solved the equation for the required return. For company A i got the required return as 8.5%, and Co B i got it as 10.5%. So its clear that the market had already priced in higher risk for Co. B. But how much higher?! Just 200 bps! Then I asked myself is 200 bps enough of higher risk priced in between a company that will be expanding capacity by 80%, vs a company that's reducing capacity by 20%? It is my opinion that it's not. Either absolutely or relatively. As such i stuck to my view of the long short trade. Just an interesting analysis that i thought students of investing might be interested in.

Bhagwan Ucha.
Why this sort of pair trade? It does not seem to fit the reversion to mean expectation.
Either long or short won't give you enough returns if that entire industry goes in one direction alone.
Your only play was that the industry is sort of flat and the probability of A going high and B going low is maximal of all outcomes.
 

Haldilal

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Why this sort of pair trade? It does not seem to fit the reversion to mean expectation.
Either long or short won't give you enough returns if that entire industry goes in one direction alone.
Your only play was that the industry is sort of flat and the probability of A going high and B going low is maximal of all outcomes.
That's the part of the play Nigga. 🙃
 

Bhurki

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Me Knew its. :)

Ya'll Nibbiars So someone asked me to evalute a pair trade in two companies in the same industry and working largely in the same region. The sector is commoditised in my view. I presented a concept paper on why they should go LONG company A, and short Company B.

My concept paper highlighted why structurally Co A will do relatively better vs Co B...structural cost advantages, its aggressive growth strategy vs consolidation at Co B etc, that sort of tbing. But there was an hiccup. Since March 2020 Co Bs share price has fallen 60%, and Co As has fallen but recovered so is down only 20%. And im saying go long the co that has recovered and go short the company that is already quite down.

Consequent to the fall Co Bs valuation multiples are at 20% discount to Co As. An important rule i follow is never short on valuations. But i had to do more work on this. So I wondered how do I demonstrate that despite the correction Co B is still a good short play. here is what I did: Value of any company is made up of two components: A. Value of its existing business B. Present Value of Future Opp PVGO I assumed that neither company will see future growth. So assumed PVGO = 0.

I then input the data in the following formula: Mkt cap Co A = expected steady state PAT / Required return + PVGO (0) Here i know mkt cap, and have made a complex earnings model for steady state PAT..pvgo is a assumed to be zero. I solved the equation for the required return. For company A i got the required return as 8.5%, and Co B i got it as 10.5%. So its clear that the market had already priced in higher risk for Co. B. But how much higher?! Just 200 bps! Then I asked myself is 200 bps enough of higher risk priced in between a company that will be expanding capacity by 80%, vs a company that's reducing capacity by 20%? It is my opinion that it's not. Either absolutely or relatively. As such i stuck to my view of the long short trade. Just an interesting analysis that i thought students of investing might be interested in.

Bhagwan Ucha.
There's a mismatch here on data consideration over time period of bet.
If time period is inflexible, then calculate the differential of return at both starting date(March) and present date.

Albeit, with presented data, 200 bps might just be enough to make a healthy book considering the best time to consolidate/readjust is during a downturn.
 

ashdoc

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Indian economy becomes worst performer in coronavirus. Modi has proved to be a disaster for the Indian economy.
 

Chandragupt Maurya

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Why is India’s FOREX reserves expanding like never before yesterday it Crossed 541 billion dollars we are tallking about temporary decline in GDP growth because of lockdown but why are these so called experts silent on FOREX RESERVES
 
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ashdoc

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Why is India’s FOREX reserves expanding like never before yesterday it Crossed 541 billion dollars we are tallking about temporary decline in GDP growth because of lockdown but why are these so called experts silent on FOREX RESERVES
Even before coronavirus struck the Indian economy it was growing at a measly 3 percent in Jan to March quarter. Even if we assume that in second half of March coronavirus must have started affecting economy still this is not good at all. What I mean is that economic downturn is not temporary due to coronavirus only. It's been building and coronavirus has only accentuated it .

 
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Chandragupt Maurya

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Even before coronavirus struck the Indian economy it was growing at a measly 3 percent in Jan to March quarter. Even if we assume that in second half of March coronavirus must have started affecting economy still this is not good at all.

But why is no one tallking about this historic rise in FOREX RESERVES
I just came to know that a 3rd international airport in Purnia Bihar has been finalized for Indian Airforce it will be the biggest airport in Bihar
Apple and many other companies are shifting to India decline in GDP growth is temporary but these developments Will benifit us in long run
 

ashdoc

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But why is no one tallking about this historic rise in FOREX RESERVES
I just came to know that a 3rd international airport in Purnia Bihar has been finalized for Indian Airforce it will be the biggest airport in Bihar
Apple and many other companies are shifting to India decline in GDP growth is temporary but these developments Will benifit us in long run
What I mean is that economic downturn is not temporary due to coronavirus only. It's been building and coronavirus has only accentuated it .
 

Chandragupt Maurya

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What I mean is that economic downturn is not temporary due to coronavirus only. It's been building and coronavirus has only accentuated it .
Maybe because of some structural reforms and automobile sector was slowing down because of governments push to replace the gasoline vehicles from Electric Vehicles
 

Suryavanshi

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Why is India’s FOREX reserves expanding like never before yesterday it Crossed 541 billion dollars we are tallking about temporary decline in GDP growth because of lockdown but why are these so called experts silent on FOREX RESERVES
The Investment never really stopped. During the time of crisis companies tend to reorganize their Investment.
 

ezsasa

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Indian economy becomes worst performer in coronavirus. Modi has proved to be a disaster for the Indian economy.
Doctor Saab, we need to have a chat.

Choice was between allowing people to drop like flies on the street, which modi will be blamed for anyways.

or

Buy some time to get the infrastructure ready and take a hit in economic activity, for which modi will be blamed anyways

Since Govt will be blamed anyway is the common factor, choice was made to save as many lives as possible while being blamed hated for doing it.

which one would you choose?
 

ashdoc

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Doctor Saab, we need to have a chat.

Choice was between allowing people to drop like flies on the street, which modi will be blamed for anyways.

or

Buy some time to get the infrastructure ready and take a hit in economic activity, for which modi will be blamed anyways

Since Govt will be blamed anyway is the common factor, choice was made to save as many lives as possible while being blamed hated for doing it.

which one would you choose?
I have written about modi's handling of coronavirus here

 

ezsasa

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I have written about modi's handling of coronavirus here

which one you want to take up first, economy or covid response?
 

Haldilal

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Ya'll now you can understand why I am not discussing the GDP numbers. :)
 

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