Indian Economy: News and Discussion

Rassil Krishnan

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
2,112
Likes
9,256
Country flag
1) Authoritarian Government.
2) No self stagnating Politics.
3) Good Transport system, land, Rail, Sea.
4) Skilled labour.
5) No Reservation.
6) Little to no Bureaucracy.
7) Indigenous Industry Protection.
8) Protestors disappear
9) Unproductive People get Rekt
10) Bitchslapping Islam and Religion in General

China is like a large company that can't be held accountable by any higher authority.
Can anyone post a counter against this that india can employ.

if we cannot counter this can we atleast copy it.

even though i am a nationalist i am one who REALLY likes chinese way of conducting social and economic practises to raise their economic power which they used to assert their other needs.

This is important because members here are all bad about china and talk about no good.

I am an extremely cold and emotionless indian and hence see only cost/benefit in war,society and economy.And the above list is most of what i see too.But people do not mention this.

Please refrain from emotional,ideological arguments.

However i might add skilled labour isnt an issue.
 

Dovah

Untermensch
Senior Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
5,614
Likes
6,793
Country flag
Let's see if they have the balls for land and labour reforms this time.
Grapevine is they are. MP and UP labor reforms was them testing waters. People are also talking about transportation reforms, not sure how that works since the biggest transport hub, Maharashtra, is not under their rule at the state level. Only Gadkari ji knows.
 

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
5,057
Likes
2,353
Country flag
There is no specific source to suggest this timeline. India's proportion of skilled labour is simply in synergy with its current income levels. If skills, no India isn't behind What China used to be in late mid 2000s.

Jumped from just 6% in 2015 to 21% to 2018. It'll continue to grow and still was among single largest pools because of sheer numbers. Total population will continue to keep India up the chart with even faster rising numbers.
That is the myth that India media likes to talk about. The reality is opposite. The number of skillful and experienced workers are far from enough. There are generally 3-5 years gap between a graduate student and skilled worker/engineer. In China, they have a relatively better career education system and state-own-companies to train those new graduates from universities or middle schools. The private companies can directly hire those best from this pool. So, in China, in 2000s, the new factories can have at least 50% experienced workers. In India, however, we only had around 15% position filled with full experienced people.

Even though I can't find the number manufacturing workers, but we can get a rough idea from other source:
According this report: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/indicators/number-of-workers-grew-4-8-to-12-2-million-in-fy18-asi-data/articleshow/71193817.cms?from=mdr
there was 12.2 millions workers in India factories in 2018.

Between 1995 to 2000, there was 18 million manufacturing employment cut off

( https://www.piie.com/blogs/china-economic-watch/manufacturing-employment-china

).

Let’s assume 60% of them were workers, then we had 10 millions unemployed and experienced workers waiting for jobs in 2000. This gives you an idea the difference between 2015 India and 2000 China.


Economic complexity index and "experience" you are talking about of most of these countries is too low to make a significant difference. Indian economy draws most revenues for itself from manufacturing of machines/vehicles or softwares etc. against these countries encashing on textile and primary sector only.
This is one example of how Indians misunderstood the movement of this time: India is not competing with one South Eastern Asian countries but ALL. So, Thailand/Malaysia/Indonesia can compete in machines/vehicles, other countries can compete in textile and primary sector. And these textile/primary sector are the keys.


Beyond certain nations of East & Southeast Asia, there is no Asian country except India with significant R&D and share of industrialization of global chains. India still holds spot among largest producers of steel and certain basic gadgets/products outside East Asia.
Another example of mis-calculation of Indians: South Eastern Asians don’t need to compete in these sectors: 1. These sectors don’t offer great employment; 2. They got Chinese, Korean, Taiwanese and Japanese to provide these products/services at far cheaper price.


As for "another China", attempts from around the globe to localise their chains are a result of closing gap among powerful and weak countries, not China factor specifically. Trend will again reverse as Asian population starts to decline. Further, "another China" has a lot of interpretations. PRC was never considered a reliable country. Nor so many countries are looked upon with such suspicions fearing blatant abuse of misery of other countries. At least India is one of them, holding a far more lenient and soft image than "mighty" PRC.
Sure, India is holding this lenient and soft image for 70 years.
70 years, PRC was miserable country just getting out of a bloody civil war. It was nothing comparing to India. The trend seemed to be favor towards India.

40 years, PRC was poor communist county while India was a poor country as well. The trend was not right for India.

20 years, Indians already believed that the trend would reverse: China would collapse while India would rise.

Now, Indians started to compare herself to South Eastern Asians.

Oh, please forget China. They are just as miserable as 70 years ago. The trend will serve India in the future.
 

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
5,057
Likes
2,353
Country flag
To all of you who have a good idea about China ,can you all shed some light on different factors that made China capable of becoming the biggest manufacturing hub of the world but India lagging behind despite having good natural resources.
1. Sino-Japan war: 8 years long and 20 millions people died. Most of time during this war, Chinese people had to fight Japanese machine guns or cannon with spear/knife or even empty hand. They saw the power of modern industries with their own eyes. The whole country got the consensus: building a modern industrial basis AT ANY COST;
2. Cold war: in the period of time, Chinese was forced to learn how to organise the massive production. Poor quality, but relatively enough quantity. This help Chinese manufacturing survive through the most difficult stage.
3. Overseas Chinese: people generally ignore this factor. These overseas Chinese (especially those in HK, Taiwan, South Eastern Asians) played an important role in beginning. With the help of them, China got their managers, skill trainers, investors, sellers and customers from the beginning. Other countries may get one or two of them in the early stage.
4. Geological location: neighbours to most of Asian countries, perfect next stop for those factories moving out of Japan, Korea, Taiwan and South Asian. By re-locating the factories to China, you not only find a new huge market, but still keeping your existing market and supply chain in those countries. That is also why these factories prefer South Eastern Asians over India when they move out: If re-locate to India, they are moving away from their major markets (China/AESIAN/JAPAN/US) which can't be fully offset by India market and closer to Europe, and you are also moving away from your suppliers.
 

LurkerBaba

Super Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
7,883
Likes
8,137
Country flag
A less cynical and very (too?) optimistic piece

Against this background, all eyes are now on Sitharaman, who over the next few days, will release the package that will cater to cottage industry, MSMEs, labourers, middle class and industries, and would “focus on land, labour, liquidity and laws”. Of these, the critical aspects, and on which we expect economic reforms to ride, would be around land, labour and laws. Land is a State subject (Entry 18) but acquisition and requisition of property lies in the Concurrent List (Entry 42), labour sits in the Concurrent list (Entries 22, 23 and 24), while laws reside in both, the Union and in the States. As far as liquidity goes, India does not have a liquidity problem; the problem is banks are not lending.
A clean-up of these three means a political readjustment, an economic rethink, a policy redraft and a national restart. Politically, it means that as a society we will have to start looking at entrepreneurs without contempt and perhaps with respect as individual who put their money, bring ideas, labour and other resources together to create enterprises. This is a big readjustment for a nation used to socialist dominance.
If history is any indication, there nothing like a good crisis to get economic activity going.
Administratively, these second generation reforms will be driven by States. Four BJP-governed states of Madhya Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Gujarat and Karnataka have already initiated regulatory changes.
 

nrj

Ambassador
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
9,658
Likes
3,911
Country flag
Somebody better be cleaning those printing machines now.

Gonna need it sooner than expected :wink:
 

prasadr14

PrasadReddy
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
10,118
Likes
55,387
Looks like only made in India products will be sold in military canteens.
Wonder what the definition of made in India though is....would assembling be considered made in India?

Devil really is in the details.

On point though, it is a much needed step & a step in right direction.
 

indiatester

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
5,915
Likes
20,439
Country flag
Looks like only made in India products will be sold in military canteens.
Wonder what the definition of made in India though is....would assembling be considered made in India?

Devil really is in the details.

On point though, it is a much needed step & a step in right direction.
A better approach would be to give those products a price advantage. Without competition we will not get better in quality.
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,414
Likes
56,918
Country flag
That is the myth that India media likes to talk about. The reality is opposite. The number of skillful and experienced workers are far from enough. There are generally 3-5 years gap between a graduate student and skilled worker/engineer. In China, they have a relatively better career education system and state-own-companies to train those new graduates from universities or middle schools. The private companies can directly hire those best from this pool. So, in China, in 2000s, the new factories can have at least 50% experienced workers. In India, however, we only had around 15% position filled with full experienced people.
India's skilled and semi-skilled & informal labour have large gap and pool of lower end goes a lot unrecorded in sub contrator factories and medium plants who employ labour directly from contractors. Number of employed workers here was only downplayed to hide actual salaries being distributed.
Manufacturing though will continue to fluctuate as sources of demand are limited to home and they will rise along with variety of products manufactured and pool of customers. Accordingly, skilled labor has been increasing complying with income levels.
This is one example of how Indians misunderstood the movement of this time: India is not competing with one South Eastern Asian countries but ALL. So, Thailand/Malaysia/Indonesia can compete in machines/vehicles, other countries can compete in textile and primary sector. And these textile/primary sector are the keys.
Textile sector is fated to lose at least some share if not decline altogether as median incomes of Bangladesh is low and labour highly unorganized. So cost of product there will continue to be low by default.
Another example of mis-calculation of Indians: South Eastern Asians don’t need to compete in these sectors: 1. These sectors don’t offer great employment; 2. They got Chinese, Korean, Taiwanese and Japanese to provide these products/services at far cheaper price.
The largest upcoming consumer class too happens to be from India which if eases rules, moving low end industries will have more tendency to settle there in Indian subcontinent, especially India for a single source of supply chain as well as single largest pool of consumers.

"Competition" with SE Asia doesn't exist there is little convergence between scopes of India and SE Asia except home appliances and other electronics where India has been holding rising shares. India's automotive production (except recent slump) has always been more than demand and export oriented and so with locally expanding electronic companies. In aerospace sector and its growth, India doesn't even face anything from SE Asia.
The "mis calculations" you're talking about aren't even a risk as most planned industrial expansion is strongly backed by India's local demand. Only competition lies here with exports. SE Asian vendors aren't going to get a free pass to trade with India to push back local companies in near future existing environment.
Sure, India is holding this lenient and soft image for 70 years.
70 years, PRC was miserable country just getting out of a bloody civil war. It was nothing comparing to India. The trend seemed to be favor towards India.

40 years, PRC was poor communist county while India was a poor country as well. The trend was not right for India.

20 years, Indians already believed that the trend would reverse: China would collapse while India would rise.

Now, Indians started to compare herself to South Eastern Asians.

Oh, please forget China. They are just as miserable as 70 years ago. The trend will serve India in the future.
China was always favored intermittently by USSR or USA to harvest strategic gains and those tech transfers & concessions for sure make bulk of share of "Rise of China".

This comment though is vague, not needed, replied for the sake of replying and clearly indicating no response from that political context, India is more reliable than China by default.
 

BangaliBabu

Regular Member
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
774
Likes
2,323
Country flag
The Bail-Gaadi FM has started his ranting about the 20lakhcrore INR since early yesterday. He's quite irate about not receiving his share of that money......after all isn't he a "poor" ex-FM with a penchant of doing and undoing scams to serve the "poor"? ain't it unfair for exclude him from oversight of a 20trillion rupee package for the "poor"???
 
Last edited:

indiatester

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
5,915
Likes
20,439
Country flag
The Bail-Gaadi FM has started his ranting about the 20lakhcrore INR since early yesterday. He's quite irate about not receiving his share of that money......after all isn't he a "poor" ex-FM with a penchant of doing and undoing scams to serve the "poor"? ain't it unfair for exclude him from oversight of a 20trillion rupee package for the "poor"???
This flew over my head. Who are you talking about?
 

BangaliBabu

Regular Member
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
774
Likes
2,323
Country flag
I don't understand what's our poltician's love of the poor. That is well-known, keeping people perpetually poor and engaged in a self-depreciating conditions helps the politicos to swing votes in their favor. Poor people don't run an economy. Giving money to them is absolute jackshit other than for scoring political brownie points. They don't know any good use of that money. They will eat, and if that have enough of money, the excess left will be for booze. No savings, no family to take care of and no worries on how to conduct further. I fail to understand what the mindset of some of these politicians still are? Can't they keep control of their tongues or tweets?
 

revenge002

Regular Member
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
68
Likes
176
Country flag
It's like a kingdom to be saved from outside and inside forces. what kingdom do, taught there people about the enemy(strength) cause fear in there minds(about enemy strength) and use that fear to built strength and attack a enemy with full force.When you have inside enemy but fear of outside is more, you eradicate inside enemy (definitely outside help him) with that fear.India is kingdom china is enemy definitely we build our strength against them in every sector where we can match them.
 

here2where

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
7,373
Likes
30,242
27 million youth in age group of 20-30 years lost jobs in April: CMIE

Data from CMIE’s Consumer Pyramids Household Survey shows youngsters in the age group 20-24 years accounted for 11% of those who lost jobs while they constituted 8.5% to the total employed persons in the country in 2019-20.
....
CMIE is of the view that job loss of 27 million youngsters in their 20s will have serious long-term repercussions. “They will have to compete with the new cohorts joining the labour force after them, for fewer jobs,” it said, adding young India will not be able to build the savings it will require later in life.
.....

According to CMIE, job losses among the young population would have implications on savings. “While households may well conserve cash during these times, the loss of jobs among the young deprives households of the extra cash that is mostly saved for either buying a house or durables or for retirement,” it said, adding that this loss of savings will have long term implications.

....

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top