Indian Economy: News and Discussion

[Blademaster]

Are you mad? 6.6 TW of installed capacity? The total installed capacity currently on this planet is 4.4 TW.

No I am not mad and you are wrong about the total installed capacity. It is roughly around 6.4 TW, not 4.4 TW. Your figures are outdated. China's capacity is now 2.5 TW which is twice what it was 7-8 years ago. And that total installed capacity has steadily increased since the Industrial Age. Do not forget about the industrialization of Africa. As Africa enters into the Industrial Age, its power capacity and consumption will also increase. India's consumption will increase as its citizens start demanding more of that lifestyle being practiced in US, Europe, Japan, & South Korea. The high standard of living comes with its own cost and that is vastly increased power consumption whether you like it or not.

And you forget that I am also including the electrical equivalent of oil consumption & supply. If we wish to transition to a nearly 100% EV world in cars, trains, trucks, and maybe planes (highly unlikely but you never know), then this is what we require in order for India to achieve the high standard of living.

 

[Concard]

I said to achieve a high standard of living with high development and use electricity for transport, industrial, residential, etc. Take a look at US and Europe and their power consumption. US is at 1.2 TW capacity and uses about 20 million barrels of oil which translates into 1.417 TW daily. That's around 2.6TW total in energy capacity. India has 4.25 times the US population so roughly India should have about 11 TW to match US levels. But I am being conservative so I reduced it about almost half so that comes around to 6.6 TW to nearly match the power consumption by US.

EU is at 11.4 million barrels of oil a day which translates into about 810 GW and has about 1.1 TW of electrical capacity for a population of 447 million people. Thats around 2 TW total in energy capacity. India's population is around 3.25 times EU's population so roughly India should have 6.5 TW in energy capacity to match EU's power consumption requirements and achieve similar standard of living.

So my figure for India is more in line with EU's consumption level and energy requirements and its high standard of living.

If we ever follow the way US and Europe have built their societies for extreme consumption, mark my words we will be truly fucked. Chinese will realize after 2040 or by 2050. We have to promote sustainable development without wrecking our environment. That means planning is absolutely necessary in how we utilize our resources. US consumes more Oil because they are a society built around the car. Assuming there are 300 million cars in India, do you know the parking space required? If you add up all the parking lots in USA it comes to the size of state of Virginia. The same goes for Europe albeit their cities are well designed and more people friendly. India should not ape any country. It needs to chart out a path based on it's roots.

Remember that USA is 3 times the size of India in geographical area. Yet India and US have the same amount of arable land. Why do you think so? Why do you think China which was a food surplus country in 2000, is now a food deficit country?

 

[Coalmine]

If we ever follow the way US and Europe have built their societies for extreme consumption, mark my words we will be truly fucked. Chinese will realize after 2040 or by 2050. We have to promote sustainable development without wrecking our environment. That means planning is absolutely necessary in how we utilize our resources. US consumes more Oil because they are a society built around the car. Assuming there are 300 million cars in India, do you know the parking space required? If you add up all the parking lots in USA it comes to the size of state of Virginia. The same goes for Europe albeit their cities are well designed and more people friendly. India should not ape any country. It needs to chart out a path based on it's roots.

Remember that USA is 3 times the size of India in geographical area. Yet India and US have the same amount of arable land. Why do you think so? Why do you think China which was a food surplus country in 2000, is now a food deficit country?

Rooftop Solar is only solution for Energy needs of India. The. Use EVs . Charge in home and drive

 

[Blademaster]

If we ever follow the way US and Europe have built their societies for extreme consumption, mark my words we will be truly fucked. Chinese will realize after 2040 or by 2050. We have to promote sustainable development without wrecking our environment. That means planning is absolutely necessary in how we utilize our resources. US consumes more Oil because they are a society built around the car. Assuming there are 300 million cars in India, do you know the parking space required? If you add up all the parking lots in USA it comes to the size of state of Virginia. The same goes for Europe albeit their cities are well designed and more people friendly. India should not ape any country. It needs to chart out a path based on it's roots.

Remember that USA is 3 times the size of India in geographical area. Yet India and US have the same amount of arable land. Why do you think so? Why do you think China which was a food surplus country in 2000, is now a food deficit country?

Dude, India is at 4.5 million barrels of oil per day and that is at a 3.5~3.8 trillion dollars GDP. What happens if GDP is tripled or quadrupled and per capita GDP goes to $10k? Power consumption goes way up. We will match Europe in power & oil consumption when we become $15T economy and our per capita GDP is $10k (today dollar value)

 

[Eagle Eye]

Rooftop Solar is only solution for Energy needs of India

Central Govt needs to come up with better "Rooftop solar policy". It can be done, instead of many state govt doling out subsidy every month!

 

[Coalmine]

Central Govt needs to come up with better "Rooftop solar policy". It can be done, instead of many state govt doling out subsidy every month!

A 3kw ongrid rooftop solar should be sufficient for a non-AC home needs. This should be priced max at 1 lakh rupees. Besides its affect on Grid should be studied.

 

[Eagle Eye]

Rooftop solar policy should be affordable to people who use 200-300 units of electricity, where bulk of state subsidy go!

 

[jadoogar]

@Coalmine @Eagle Eye

Rooftop solar is not cost effective - and survives only because it is subsidized by grid connected users -
That may appear to be fine now because one can say that grid is carbon intense, but still not alright in terms of cross-subsidization. Rooftop solar should exist only as long as feedback to grid power tariff is at wholesale rates and not at retail rates

@Blademaster
It is not 1:1 oil to bijli. Transportation via bijli is far more efficient cfd to oil. So less will be needed
Indian vehicles can be smaller - even more efficiency
Indian use 2 wheelers - (climate permits, except peak summer) - perhaps some efficiency there
In Gorakhpur upto start of 1990 we did not even need A/C. Climate was better - shall return to that in a couple of decades as world decarbonizes.
In India there is little use of insulation or even a false ceiling - so plenty of opportunity for efficiency gains in HVAC (or less usage)
India will not need anywhere close to what bijli capacity that you recommend

 

[indiatester]

@Coalmine @Eagle Eye

Rooftop solar is not cost effective - and survives only because it is subsidized by grid connected users -
That may appear to be fine now because one can say that grid is carbon intense, but still not alright in terms of cross-subsidization. Rooftop solar should exist only as long as feedback to grid power tariff is at wholesale rates and not at retail rates

@Blademaster
It is not 1:1 oil to bijli. Transportation via bijli is far more efficient cfd to oil. So less will be needed
Indian vehicles can be smaller - even more efficiency
Indian use 2 wheelers - (climate permits, except peak summer) - perhaps some efficiency there
In Gorakhpur upto start of 1990 we did not even need A/C. Climate was better - shall return to that in a couple of decades as world decarbonizes.
In India there is little use of insulation or even a false ceiling - so plenty of opportunity for efficiency gains in HVAC (or less usage)
India will not need anywhere close to what bijli capacity that you recommend

Nuclear Energy anyone?

 

[Blademaster]

@Coalmine @Eagle Eye

Rooftop solar is not cost effective - and survives only because it is subsidized by grid connected users -
That may appear to be fine now because one can say that grid is carbon intense, but still not alright in terms of cross-subsidization. Rooftop solar should exist only as long as feedback to grid power tariff is at wholesale rates and not at retail rates

@Blademaster
It is not 1:1 oil to bijli. Transportation via bijli is far more efficient cfd to oil. So less will be needed
Indian vehicles can be smaller - even more efficiency
Indian use 2 wheelers - (climate permits, except peak summer) - perhaps some efficiency there
In Gorakhpur upto start of 1990 we did not even need A/C. Climate was better - shall return to that in a couple of decades as world decarbonizes.
In India there is little use of insulation or even a false ceiling - so plenty of opportunity for efficiency gains in HVAC (or less usage)
India will not need anywhere close to what bijli capacity that you recommend

half of Europe don’t use A/C and don’t drive big cars. They drive small cars mostly and do not have multiple cars per family. They ride bicycles more often and use mass transport significantly more than US. They share similar behavior like Indians. Still they consume at the figures I cited.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars One of the largest Commercial Development in India Under Constructions at Mumbai.

 

[NutCracker]

A 3kw ongrid rooftop solar should be sufficient for a non-AC home needs. This should be priced max at 1 lakh rupees. Besides its affect on Grid should be studied.

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It should be complimented with 10-20kWh storage facility.

Maybe Ambani can enter in this market with his cheap sodium Ion batteries.
In my estimate if Ambani goes with a GIGA fsctory, it would cost 10k per KWh storage.

 

[IndianHawk]

If we ever follow the way US and Europe have built their societies for extreme consumption, mark my words we will be truly fucked. Chinese will realize after 2040 or by 2050. We have to promote sustainable development without wrecking our environment. That means planning is absolutely necessary in how we utilize our resources. US consumes more Oil because they are a society built around the car. Assuming there are 300 million cars in India, do you know the parking space required? If you add up all the parking lots in USA it comes to the size of state of Virginia. The same goes for Europe albeit their cities are well designed and more people friendly. India should not ape any country. It needs to chart out a path based on it's roots.

Remember that USA is 3 times the size of India in geographical area. Yet India and US have the same amount of arable land. Why do you think so? Why do you think China which was a food surplus country in 2000, is now a food deficit country?

We need a very different model of growth than USA or even China.
Efficiency has to play a big role just like led revolution. We need a efficiency revolution in India .
Maximise use of solar energy. Design our houses to keep cool naturally.
Provide all services online to reduce traffic and vehicles.

We need to find ways to somehow utilise the warm air of summer to productive use.
Similarly we need to be able to generate electricity from thousands of small floods created by monsoon.

I'm probably into dream land now. Lol.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

half of Europe don’t use A/C and don’t drive big cars. They drive small cars mostly and do not have multiple cars per family. They ride bicycles more often and use mass transport significantly more than US. They share similar behavior like Indians. Still they consume at the figures I cited.

A large amount of energy goes into heating their homes for 6 months a year. Their consumption of goods is also comparable to Americans.

 

[another_armchair]

Govt may consider 0.3% fee to maintain UPI payment system & ensure financial viability: IIT Bombay study

The study, which analyses the impact of the decision of the National Payments Corporation of India (NPCI) to introduce interchange fee on payments through mobile wallets, argued that the payments received by merchants should remain 'unpolluted' whether they are from UPI directly or through...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

The government may consider a 0.3 per cent uniform digital payment facilitation fee to fund the infrastructure required for such transactions and also to ensure financial viability of the UPI payment system, suggested a study by IIT Bombay(We don't have any skin in the game but we will still try and stir trouble).

 

[Cheepek]

That's why nuance is very important.

 

[karn]

That's why nuance is very important.

View attachment 199061

Eh .. What's the percapita of this. Cause Africas population is quite low compare to ours.

 

[Cheepek]

Eh .. What's the percapita of this. Cause Africas population is quite low compare to ours.

Sub saharan Africa population is ~1.15B

 

[Lonewolf]

Eh .. What's the percapita of this. Cause Africas population is quite low compare to ours.

Sure about that ?? Last time I checked it was 1.18 billion

 

[karn]

Sub saharan Africa population is ~1.15B

Sure about that ?? Last time I checked it was 1.18 billion

So less than us .. A direct comparison of per capita is more useful.