Indian Economy: News and Discussion

[FalconSlayers]

 

[another_armchair]

issue is not with manufacturing capacity.

let's say an european retailer imports a t-shirt at 10 EUR + tariff from India and china is offering the same T-shirt for 10 EUR but no import duty.

which one will that european retailer prefer to import, Indian made tshirt or chini t shirt?

if Indian textile manufacturers can supply for domestic demand, they can easily supply for the world under favourable trade agreements. India's domestic textile market is 152 billion $, exports 44 billion $.

It is not just manufacturing capacity but also issues with quality, lack of uniformity and inability to scale up.

I will share two examples.

1. A friend quit his big fat corporate job and wanted to get into some small scale manufacturing. He decided to buy out a small cardboard box manufacturing unit. Turned out the rolling from pulp happens in main factory.
Then it goes to another vendor for printing and a third for cutting.
Production quality goes for a toss. Time overruns and worse, one becomes hostage to whims of vendors. This is how most of the paper/board manufacturing in Tiruppur rolls.
The plan had to be abandoned and the man is back in the Middle East working for an MNC.

An American or European had posted on Twitter how they were switching to a Chinese supplier after their cardboard box supplier from India had serious quality issues. The biggest issue being two boxes of the same type having different dimensions, piss poor finishing etc.

2. Importers face several issues from their Indian suppliers. Large retailers/wholesalers need suppliers who can fulfill their commitments. When a foreign buyer asks an Indian manufacturer in Tiruppur - Can you supply 5 lakh t-shirts of a certain color and quality? Desi will nod head from left to right and say yes saar... at unbeatable price. Once everything is set in place, man runs to buy yarn, any spike in yarn prices eats into his margins, then comes spinning mill.. he will try to find someone who will do it cheap and compromise on quality, then comes dying.. then comes cutting and sewing which generally happens in house but there are people who do it. Lets say he does not have the capacity, he will outsource it to a dozen tailoring units. This could have seen a time overrun of almost 20 days while the buyer practices deep breathing to ensure he doesn't pop a vein. Wonder how many tshirts will end up getting rejected and will the supplier even honor his promise?

There are barely a dozen cotton t-shirt manufacturers here who produce quality stuff but then they procure the fabric from Bangladesh. The sector is unorganized and it will take decades to reach China's standards if current business practices aren't reformed. Entire industry needs a kick up its backside to become competitive to China.

Tariff's alone is not the issue why we have not been successful in capturing a greater share of the market.

Procurement vendors feel its better to buy from China as they are a lot more reliable, their products have better finish and are generally more durable.

If tariffs were the sole deciding point, good chunk of outsourcing, tech support and backoffice business would have shifted to Mexico, Latin America and the Philippines as they are still a lot cheaper than India. Where does India score? Reliability and quality. If CTS fucks up, Tech Mahindra is there to take up the same project and deliver the goods within budget and on time.

End of the day a client just wants the deliverables as promised, not a happy ending with the deliverables.

Indian services sector have done a remarkable job in building trust and reputation.

It is the manufacturing sector which has to live up to the expectations of a global audience. Till then, we will remain a distant second to China from mundane stuff like t-shirts to garments to agarbattis, diwali lamps, pen stands, fancy gift items, general electrical and electronic stuff which cost us billions of dollars every year.

 

[SKC]

Looks like eveyone has watched the same youtube video about why Gmail is declining

Which video?

 

[ezsasa]

It is not just manufacturing capacity but also issues with quality, lack of uniformity and inability to scale up.

I will share two examples.

1. A friend quit his big fat corporate job and wanted to get into some small scale manufacturing. He decided to buy out a small cardboard box manufacturing unit. Turned out the rolling from pulp happens in main factory.
Then it goes to another vendor for printing and a third for cutting.
Production quality goes for a toss. Time overruns and worse, one becomes hostage to whims of vendors. This is how most of the paper/board manufacturing in Tiruppur rolls.
The plan had to be abandoned and the man is back in the Middle East working for an MNC.

An American or European had posted on Twitter how they were switching to a Chinese supplier after their cardboard box supplier from India had serious quality issues. The biggest issue being two boxes of the same type having different dimensions, piss poor finishing etc.

2. Importers face several issues from their Indian suppliers. Large retailers/wholesalers need suppliers who can fulfill their commitments. When a foreign buyer asks an Indian manufacturer in Tiruppur - Can you supply 5 lakh t-shirts of a certain color and quality? Desi will nod head from left to right and say yes saar... at unbeatable price. Once everything is set in place, man runs to buy yarn, any spike in yarn prices eats into his margins, then comes spinning mill.. he will try to find someone who will do it cheap and compromise on quality, then comes dying.. then comes cutting and sewing which generally happens in house but there are people who do it. Lets say he does not have the capacity, he will outsource it to a dozen tailoring units. This could have seen a time overrun of almost 20 days while the buyer practices deep breathing to ensure he doesn't pop a vein. Wonder how many tshirts will end up getting rejected and will the supplier even honor his promise?

There are barely a dozen cotton t-shirt manufacturers here who produce quality stuff but then they procure the fabric from Bangladesh. The sector is unorganized and it will take decades to reach China's standards if current business practices aren't reformed. Entire industry needs a kick up its backside to become competitive to China.

Tariff's alone is not the issue why we have not been successful in capturing a greater share of the market.

Procurement vendors feel its better to buy from China as they are a lot more reliable, their products have better finish and are generally more durable.

If tariffs were the sole deciding point, good chunk of outsourcing, tech support and backoffice business would have shifted to Mexico, Latin America and the Philippines as they are still a lot cheaper than India. Where does India score? Reliability and quality. If CTS fucks up, Tech Mahindra is there to take up the same project and deliver the goods within budget and on time.

End of the day a client just wants the deliverables as promised, not a happy ending with the deliverables.

Indian services sector have done a remarkable job in building trust and reputation.

It is the manufacturing sector which has to live up to the expectations of a global audience. Till then, we will remain a distant second to China from mundane stuff like t-shirts to garments to agarbattis, diwali lamps, pen stands, fancy gift items, general electrical and electronic stuff which cost us billions of dollars every year.

not denying these points.

but it's not the case that no textile including RMG is getting exported from India. companies who are focussing on exports operate differently.

as far as tiruppur is concerned, i have no idea local ecosystem works. i did some consulting for a 100% export oriented textile company in mumbai many years ago, i have some idea on how they operate.

 

[Varzone]

It is not just manufacturing capacity but also issues with quality, lack of uniformity and inability to scale up.

I will share two examples.

1. A friend quit his big fat corporate job and wanted to get into some small scale manufacturing. He decided to buy out a small cardboard box manufacturing unit. Turned out the rolling from pulp happens in main factory.
Then it goes to another vendor for printing and a third for cutting.
Production quality goes for a toss. Time overruns and worse, one becomes hostage to whims of vendors. This is how most of the paper/board manufacturing in Tiruppur rolls.
The plan had to be abandoned and the man is back in the Middle East working for an MNC.

An American or European had posted on Twitter how they were switching to a Chinese supplier after their cardboard box supplier from India had serious quality issues. The biggest issue being two boxes of the same type having different dimensions, piss poor finishing etc.

2. Importers face several issues from their Indian suppliers. Large retailers/wholesalers need suppliers who can fulfill their commitments. When a foreign buyer asks an Indian manufacturer in Tiruppur - Can you supply 5 lakh t-shirts of a certain color and quality? Desi will nod head from left to right and say yes saar... at unbeatable price. Once everything is set in place, man runs to buy yarn, any spike in yarn prices eats into his margins, then comes spinning mill.. he will try to find someone who will do it cheap and compromise on quality, then comes dying.. then comes cutting and sewing which generally happens in house but there are people who do it. Lets say he does not have the capacity, he will outsource it to a dozen tailoring units. This could have seen a time overrun of almost 20 days while the buyer practices deep breathing to ensure he doesn't pop a vein. Wonder how many tshirts will end up getting rejected and will the supplier even honor his promise?

There are barely a dozen cotton t-shirt manufacturers here who produce quality stuff but then they procure the fabric from Bangladesh. The sector is unorganized and it will take decades to reach China's standards if current business practices aren't reformed. Entire industry needs a kick up its backside to become competitive to China.

Tariff's alone is not the issue why we have not been successful in capturing a greater share of the market.

Procurement vendors feel its better to buy from China as they are a lot more reliable, their products have better finish and are generally more durable.

If tariffs were the sole deciding point, good chunk of outsourcing, tech support and backoffice business would have shifted to Mexico, Latin America and the Philippines as they are still a lot cheaper than India. Where does India score? Reliability and quality. If CTS fucks up, Tech Mahindra is there to take up the same project and deliver the goods within budget and on time.

End of the day a client just wants the deliverables as promised, not a happy ending with the deliverables.

Indian services sector have done a remarkable job in building trust and reputation.

It is the manufacturing sector which has to live up to the expectations of a global audience. Till then, we will remain a distant second to China from mundane stuff like t-shirts to garments to agarbattis, diwali lamps, pen stands, fancy gift items, general electrical and electronic stuff which cost us billions of dollars every year.

Quality post.
There are many stories like this, main problem I've witnessed is getting work out of the labour and infrastructure problems + logistics takes too long and is expensive.
These issues are of course more prevalent on smaller scales of production but also discourages entrepreneurs to start a biz

 

[another_armchair]

not denying these points.

but it's not the case that no textile including RMG is getting exported from India. companies who are focussing on exports operate differently.

as far as tiruppur is concerned, i have no idea local ecosystem works. i did some consulting for a 100% export oriented textile company in mumbai many years ago, i have some idea on how they operate.

Indian RMG brands are sourcing from Bangladesh and selling within India.

What incentive does an Indian RMG brand like Flying Machine, Roadster get to source from Bangladesh?

Is it just better margins or best bang for the buck(cost+quality+delivered within timeline+diversify product range without accruing additional cost) ?

All I'm saying is our industry is performing well below its true potential given its peers. People need to get their act together as this sector generates mass employment. If our exports grow from the current USD 30-34 billion to say USD 120-130 billion, imagine the change it would translate to on the ground?

Anyways my last on the topic.

 

[kharabela]

TATA has joint venture with both airbus and boeing . They manufacture some parts for boeing in telengana and now big scale plan with airbus in gujurat . The order of 500 planes is highest in history of aviation . Around 100 billion $ . A lot of aerospace job ll be created in india and a lot of global aerospace industry outsourcing is coming to india .

 

[Haldilal]

TATA has joint venture with both airbus and boeing . They manufacture some parts for boeing in telengana and now big scale plan with airbus in gujurat . The order of 500 planes is highest in history of aviation . Around 100 billion $ . A lot of aerospace job ll be created in india and a lot of global aerospace industry outsourcing is coming to india .

Ya'll Nibbiars

1 . That the market price the actual price may be much lower wouldn't be suprised if the MAX are sold for just 40 million dollars per aircraft.

2 . The value of screwdrivergiri done by the TAS will peanuts in front of even this. And will probably run in Multi millions and definitely not billions of dollars as few members here are dreaming.

3 . Despite Indigos order of 450 aircraft a decade ago from the Airbus, their contributions to the Indian Domestic Aerospace industry has been zilch. Don't expect ground breaking happiness even now.

4 . Casa and this deals are totally different and can't compare both of them one is pure civilian with no government inputs and other Government to government deal with great TOT in the scopes.

5 . Most of the almost more than 80 percent would be single asile so expcet the actual amount would be in league of 30 billion dollars plus. Maybe A330NEO would be ordered at steep discounts.

6 . And the period would be more than a decade may be even till 2035. Seen the scale and speed of the Indigos Airbus deals for the Neo still not completed even after 12 years. They still have 518 aircraft orders unfilled and would not be even till 2030 at this rate.

 

[SKC]

I think Indians are in denial about how much the chinese utterly mog us in some sectors.

In china state owned business are necklace adoring the neck in here they are a noose.

90% Indian are still living in era: Chinese maal kitna chalega and Chinese log to chote hote hain!

They make their military stuff with same quality as west and current and upcoming Chinese generation are taller than Indians.

 

[dfcool]

Visa desperation

Yesterday I was watching football world cup on Indian app and Visa ad popped up. It showed how debit card based payment is better than QR code based **with Long Queue at supermarket** (did not mention UPI but we know it is targetted at UPI).

They show cased wireless taping. Fact is you don't insert a debit card into POS but it is still a debit card with all the flaws.

Some facts:
Visa made everyone addicted to cards in USA in 90s just like cigarette companies. Now US is full of Credit card zombies swimming in consumerism and living paycheck to paycheck with EMIs.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Tata Group plans to open 100 small exclusive Apple stores

Infiniti Retail will become an Apple franchisee partner and intends to open 100 such outlets of 500-600 sq ft each at malls as well as high-street and neighbourhood locations.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

$3 billion investment in defence corridor

Over 150 Firms Likely To Invest Rs 24,000 Crore In UP, Tamil Nadu Defence Corridors

The two defence corridors in the country have received investments proposals worth nearly Rs 24,000 crore from over 150 companies

swarajyamag.com

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars The Air India has Placed orders for the 50 MAXs. And this order is exclusively for the Express. And new Cabins and Livery with uniforms would be unveiled soon.

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[kharabela]

Ya'll Nibbiars

1 . That the market price the actual price may be much lower wouldn't be suprised if the MAX are sold for just 40 million dollars per aircraft.

2 . The value of screwdrivergiri done by the TAS will peanuts in front of even this. And will probably run in Multi millions and definitely not billions of dollars as few members here are dreaming.

3 . Despite Indigos order of 450 aircraft a decade ago from the Airbus, their contributions to the Indian Domestic Aerospace industry has been zilch. Don't expect ground breaking happiness even now.

4 . Casa and this deals are totally different and can't compare both of them one is pure civilian with no government inputs and other Government to government deal with great TOT in the scopes.

5 . Most of the almost more than 80 percent would be single asile so expcet the actual amount would be in league of 30 billion dollars plus. Maybe A330NEO would be ordered at steep discounts.

6 . And the period would be more than a decade may be even till 2035. Seen the scale and speed of the Indigos Airbus deals for the Neo still not completed even after 12 years. They still have 518 aircraft orders unfilled and would not be even till 2030 at this rate.

Yeah deal ll be spread over more than a decade , slowly when their old aircrafts ll be retired . When c295 facility was being inaugurated media was saying it ll lead to commercial aircraft manufacturing in india . Just saying what they were saying . Now its in the media that order value is more than 100 billion dollar . We dont have the capacity to manufacture aircraft like some members wanting us to do it suddenly . Our effort in research historically has been all about giving rs400 crore to some govt psu/research entity and they keep doing research for 30/40 years . It does not work for us . Best deal for us could have been that embrar sale offer which was in news some years back . Dont know if it was all bogus . Nothing wrong in screw driver giri . Let the country reach upper middle income category first . Let the ecosystem be created for retaining of talents .

 

[Haldilal]

Yeah deal ll be spread over more than a decade , slowly when their old aircrafts ll be retired . When c295 facility was being inaugurated media was saying it ll lead to commercial aircraft manufacturing in india . Just saying what they were saying . Now its in the media that order value is more than 100 billion dollar . We dont have the capacity to manufacture aircraft like some members wanting us to do it suddenly . Our effort in research historically has been all about giving rs400 crore to some govt psu/research entity and they keep doing research for 30/40 years . It does not work for us . Best deal for us could have been that embrar sale offer which was in news some years back . Dont know if it was all bogus . Nothing wrong in screw driver giri . Let the country reach upper middle income category first . Let the ecosystem be created for retaining of talents .

Ya'll Nibbiars we are doing Screwdivergiri for last 70 years and where it brought us, Unless the National Transportations Aircraft is done, cant hope to see the Domestic Aviation Industry to starts.

 

[jai jaganath]

Yeah deal ll be spread over more than a decade , slowly when their old aircrafts ll be retired . When c295 facility was being inaugurated media was saying it ll lead to commercial aircraft manufacturing in india . Just saying what they were saying . Now its in the media that order value is more than 100 billion dollar . We dont have the capacity to manufacture aircraft like some members wanting us to do it suddenly . Our effort in research historically has been all about giving rs400 crore to some govt psu/research entity and they keep doing research for 30/40 years . It does not work for us . Best deal for us could have been that embrar sale offer which was in news some years back . Dont know if it was all bogus . Nothing wrong in screw driver giri . Let the country reach upper middle income category first . Let the ecosystem be created for retaining of talents .

What I am saying is atleast license manufacture the jetliner
I am not saying to ask them to manufacture
Just assemble them here even that would embark a start
Everything has to start with license producing If so then why not try here

 

[Haldilal]

What I am saying is atleast license manufacture the jetliner
I am not saying to ask them to manufacture
Just assemble them here even that would embark a start
Everything has to start with license producing If so then why not try here

Ya'll Nibbiars and that's the thing any firms in India don't want to unless pressured by the government like the Mleechas. The PSU's cant be counted in this. And unless Heavy Subsidy is offered. No one will take this tasks.

 

[jai jaganath]

Ya'll Nibbiars and that's the thing any firms in India don't want to unless pressured by the government like the Mleechas. The PSU's cant be counted in this. And unless Heavy Subsidy is offered. No one will take this tasks.

As Tata has jv with Airbus and Boeing they should force them to atleast assemble the aircrafts here

 

[kharabela]

Ya'll Nibbiars we are doing Screwdivergiri for last 70 years and where it brought us, Unless the National Transportations Aircraft is done, cant hope to see the Domestic Aviation Industry to starts.

Psus did screwdriver . I believe private sector ll be different . And i have some faith in new research based start ups , If they get the right ecosystem and help it might be different than what we have experienced so far .

 

[Haldilal]

Psus did screwdriver . I believe private sector ll be different . And i have some faith in new research based start ups , If they get the right ecosystem and help it might be different than what we have experienced so far .

Ya'll Niibiars The private sector has been doing Screw drivergiri for last 15 years. Unless you are kalyani who has not done screw drivergiri and only M&As with R&D don't expect any changes. Even the privates ones hardly spend anything on the R&Ds.

Ya'll Nibbiars We all knew what the Government done with the Mahindra Aerospace Ambitions. Crippled it badly.

As Tata has jv with Airbus and Boeing they should force them to atleast assemble the aircrafts here

Ya'll Niibiars that will Increase the Aircraft cost and would have to say bye bye to the Steep Discounts would getting after per plane, and that's the last thing Tata would want to do getting one business at the cost of another. TAS will get business at cost of Air India which already has large debt to service along with new debts.

And unless the Manufacturing is subsided it will not happen. And remember in west their government gives large subsidy, which make them competitive.