Indian Counter Terror Operations Pictures & Discussions

[WolfPack86]

What kind of binocular is this ?

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

From what we see from news reports, tangos were holed up in a building with a open ground around it. This gives them the advantage in this case.

I am guessing the CO had to make the call between prolonged firefight or to finish the op before the sundown.

No point in fanboys discussing the an ongoing ops, let's wait for the official report.

I'm cross posting from another thread :

This could have been avoided. Para commandos should not be sent to tackle insurgency issues, they are meant for special operations and it is a very specific skillset that they carry. On top of that, despite his extraordinary courage, the government has still not been able to bring the situation under control. The government must rethink its policy of using minimal force. They could have used heavy guns and subdued the situation. Victory over terrorism is not just about winning a gun battle, we also need to win the narrative war. In jihadi parlance, every attack on India is seen as a David vs Goliath battle so the very fact that the terrorists were able to sneak in is seen by them as a victory. Whatever happens next is simply a bonus for them. This perception of victory will be used to raise the moral of local jihadis and their recruitment will only go up.

The government isn't considering the narrative war at all. The fact that a group of 3 terrorists can hold the imagination of a nation of 1.3 billion people hostage itself is a loss of initiative as far as the narrative war is concerned. We must have rules which mandate the conclusion of any counter-terror operation within a day even through the use of disproportionate firepower if necessary. Instead, we keep sacrificing our officers in a deluded bid to save collateral damage while those ungrateful 'collaterals' don't see us anything more than kaffirs.

Letting a siege go on for multiple days erodes the morale of the entire nation, it's like allowing your tormentor to sit on your head and yap in your ear for days. The government must realize that this is not a test cricket match to allow it to go on for days. They must also think about the effect this has on the psyche of the nation and that of the enemy. It demoralizes our nation and raises the morale of the enemy, thereby justifying the cost-benefit analysis of Pakistani establishment. As long as their terror attacks bear such handsome dividends (week long coverage and internationalization of Kashmir issue), they are never going to stop doing it. We must deny them the propaganda advantage, bring an artillery strike on the building and conclude CT ops in a few hours at the most. It's not worth sacrificing our soldier's lives for. 7 of our people have been martyred, 13 injured. This is not justified.

That building is already fucked, there are no civilians inside, it's prudent to bring in the heavy guns and end this immediately. Otherwise, let the QRT of local secular members of J&K police handle it. We should not sacrifice our mainland boys to save those ungrateful valley rats. Let the seculars tackle secular infiltrators, we can't be losing elite para commandos, (that too of captain rank) for such CT ops. We have lost 2 already and we have no tangible results to show for it, just one rat killed.

 

[ezsasa]

I'm cross posting from another thread :

This could have been avoided. Para commandos should not be sent to tackle insurgency issues, they are meant for special operations and it is a very specific skillset that they carry. On top of that, despite his extraordinary courage, the government has still not been able to bring the situation under control. The government must rethink its policy of using minimal force. They could have used heavy guns and subdued the situation. Victory over terrorism is not just about winning a gun battle, we also need to win the narrative war. In jihadi parlance, every attack on India is seen as a David vs Goliath battle so the very fact that the terrorists were able to sneak in is seen by them as a victory. Whatever happens next is simply a bonus for them. This perception of victory will be used to raise the moral of local jihadis and their recruitment will only go up.

The government isn't considering the narrative war at all. The fact that a group of 3 terrorists can hold the imagination of a nation of 1.3 billion people hostage itself is a loss of initiative as far as the narrative war is concerned. We must have rules which mandate the conclusion of any counter-terror operation within a day even through the use of disproportionate firepower if necessary. Instead, we keep sacrificing our officers in a deluded bid to save collateral damage while those ungrateful 'collaterals' don't see us anything more than kaffirs.

Letting a siege go on for multiple days erodes the morale of the entire nation, it's like allowing your tormentor to sit on your head and yap in your ear for days. The government must realize that this is not a test cricket match to allow it to go on for days. They must also think about the effect this has on the psyche of the nation and that of the enemy. It demoralizes our nation and raises the morale of the enemy, thereby justifying the cost-benefit analysis of Pakistani establishment. As long as their terror attacks bear such handsome dividends (week long coverage and internationalization of Kashmir issue), they are never going to stop doing it. We must deny them the propaganda advantage, bring an artillery strike on the building and conclude CT ops in a few hours at the most. It's not worth sacrificing our soldier's lives for. 7 of our people have been martyred, 13 injured. This is not justified.

That building is already fucked, there are no civilians inside, it's prudent to bring in the heavy guns and end this immediately. Otherwise, let the QRT of local secular members of J&K police handle it. We should not sacrifice our mainland boys to save those ungrateful valley rats. Let the seculars tackle secular infiltrators, we can't be losing elite para commandos, (that too of captain rank) for such CT ops. We have lost 2 already and we have no tangible results to show for it, just one rat killed.

Even today based on ANI News, room to room searches are going on as per sector commander. That means there is a probability of civilians inside, that could explain the non-usage of heavy weaponry.

We are not pakis to flatten out whole villages and towns to achieve their strategic objective.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Even today based on ANI News, room to room searches are going on as per sector commander. That means there is a probability of civilians inside, that could explain the non-usage of heavy weaponry.

We are not pakis to flatten out whole villages and towns to achieve their strategic objective.

If you keep up with the 'we are not Pakis' mindset then it means there has been no effective mindset change post 2014 LS elections. Even UPA was using that excuse to go soft on terrorists. These civilians are the ones providing logistical and moral support to the terrorists, otherwise it would be impossible. I hope you remember that one of ours was killed by deception when the father of the terrorist called our soldier to surrender and when he came close, they shot and killed him. @Bornubus narrated it yesterday. Until and unless the rats in the valley KNOW for a fact that we are going to share the pain with them, they are not going to learn. Otherwise there is no incentive for them to co-operate with us. If our Army is fighting against terrorists and Kashmiris are raising slogans in favor of terrorists, then who are we fighting for?

Look at these peaceful seculars gathered for the funeral of terrorists who killed our soldiers :

They are eating our tax money and waging a war on us. Unless some sort of collective cost is inflicted on them, they will not cease.

 

[Bornubus]

Unable to take a small buliding for more than 24 hours is a concern that to after losing 2 commissioned officer of SF.

I don't know what is the tactic, it is not look well for an experienced force like Indian army.

Time to bring heavy weapons in kashmir.Russians flatten the entire city of Grozny with Artillery, Airstike and Thermobaric weapons and Indian Army hardly use Tanks, very poor show of strength for a big Country like India.

We could have bring Mi 35 or BMP 2 to raze the building where these jihadis holed up and to save the precious life of young officers.

 

[rohit b3]

I would really like to know why our forces take such unrealistic long time to neutralize 3 terrorists in a building.
My theory is that they use their concept of "Maximum restraint, Minimum force" and try to prolong the operation to tire the terrorists and take them alive.
Can someone confirm my theory?
However loss of 2 Paracommandos against 3 terrorists in a building is a big loss. Whats the catch?

 

[cobra commando]

Pampore encounter
3 terrorists

Spoiler: Killed

IA deployed drones to track the terrorists hiding inside the EDI building, during the pampore ops:

 

[abingdonboy]

I would really like to know why our forces take such unrealistic long time to neutralize 3 terrorists in a building.
My theory is that they use their concept of "Maximum restraint, Minimum force" and try to prolong the operation to tire the terrorists and take them alive.
Can someone confirm my theory?
However loss of 2 Paracommandos against 3 terrorists in a building is a big loss. Whats the catch?

You've answered your own question- that is EXACTLY the Indian State's CI doctrine- many online don't like it but this is what the professionals have refined over decades of hard fighting.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The orders were no destruction of civilian property, Heavy armed terrorist fortified in that building, Regulars and SF were forced to flush them out, Para don`t have proper gear and their training is not exactly of NSG types, Here NSG could have preformed better, But why NSG was not involved its not known to me ..

I hope Various Ground commanders have proper communication and coordination before jumping in, Same happens around pathankot when NSG was used where PARAs could have done better with excess firepower ..

You've answered your own question- that is EXACTLY the Indian State's CI doctrine- many online don't like it but this is what the professionals have refined over decades of hard fighting.

That building is already fucked, there are no civilians inside, it's prudent to bring in the heavy guns and end this immediately. Otherwise, let the QRT of local secular members of J&K police handle it. We should not sacrifice our mainland boys to save those ungrateful valley rats. Let the seculars tackle secular infiltrators, we can't be losing elite para commandos, (that too of captain rank) for such CT ops. We have lost 2 already and we have no tangible results to show for it, just one rat killed.

=========================

Local like our presence, Their hatred and fear for terrorist is the reason they like us to be there, I am not talking abt some Urban and Unemployed pocket payed by separatist which media love to show on their channels, The below picture are mostly staged by separatist and their local media outlets ..

Look at these peaceful seculars gathered for the funeral of terrorists who killed our soldiers, They are eating our tax money and waging a war on us. Unless some sort of collective cost is inflicted on them, they will not cease.

==========================

Regular Issue ..

What kind of binocular is this ?

You've answered your own question- that is EXACTLY the Indian State's CI doctrine- many online don't like it but this is what the professionals have refined over decades of hard fighting.

That building is already fucked, there are no civilians inside, it's prudent to bring in the heavy guns and end this immediately. Otherwise, let the QRT of local secular members of J&K police handle it. We should not sacrifice our mainland boys to save those ungrateful valley rats. Let the seculars tackle secular infiltrators, we can't be losing elite para commandos, (that too of captain rank) for such CT ops. We have lost 2 already and we have no tangible results to show for it, just one rat killed.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The 4.5-tonne military camouflage vehicle, moving on tank-like tyres has a special armour plating which can resist close firing from any modern assault rifle and grenades and provides ample opportunity to armed commandos to take precise aim from the firing ports without getting hit.It also has enough space for commandos to stock their weapons and ammunition, the officials said. The vehicle can attain a maximum speed limit of 25 km per hour and is the first of its kind in the small variants of bullet-proof vehicles that are required to operate in large built up areas like Parliament, they said.

=========================

Why not in J&k ? , Like the concept ..

 

[aditya g]

Why not in J&k ? , Like the concept ..

This vehicle is designed for operations in large compounds such as airports and parliament. The idea is it can be driven inside the building.

It may not be requires in j&k where you can drive around in casspirs. Inside the mohallas is on foot anyways

 

[abingdonboy]

Here NSG could have preformed better, But why NSG was not involved its not known to me ..

We all know why sir- inter-service rivalry. We saw post-Pathankot the outrage from former IA officers that the NSG was used in a mission they felt "they" (IA) should have been given. The fact is, in JK the IA is the de facto security provider and the RR commanders have the ability to call in SF teams assigned to their area of responsibility. There is almost no mechanism for an RR commander to call in the NSG- it would be a pretty cumbersome process of the RR calling up the GOC who contacts the IA's Northern Command who contacts the MHA who then sends in the NSG. On the other hand the PARA (SF) are already on call, the RR commander likely knows the SF team leader and getting them on scene will be pretty quick.

I agree the NSG were likely the best to be sent into such a situation but the PARA (SF) would never concede this, once they were on the scene they were going in- that is how these alpha dogs think. There needs to be a institutionalised mechanism for getting the NSG dispatched for any such operation. Had this been anywhere else in India and not in Kashmir 100% the NSG would have been on the scene and in charge of all operations, because this is Kashmir the IA wants to run the show.

This is why India desperatly needs the SOCOM up and running YESTERDAY.

 

[aditya g]

Hit the like button multiple times ... sadly one counts!

We all know why sir- inter-service rivalry. We saw post-Pathankot the outrage from former IA officers that the NSG was used in a mission they felt "they" (IA) should have been given. The fact is, in JK the IA is the de facto security provider and the RR commanders have the ability to call in SF teams assigned to their area of responsibility. There is almost no mechanism for an RR commander to call in the NSG- it would be a pretty cumbersome process of the RR calling up the GOC who contacts the IA's Northern Command who contacts the MHA who then sends in the NSG. On the other hand the PARA (SF) are already on call, the RR commander likely knows the SF team leader and getting them on scene will be pretty quick.

I agree the NSG were likely the best to be sent into such a situation but the PARA (SF) would never concede this, once they were on the scene they were going in- that is how these alpha dogs think. There needs to be a institutionalised mechanism for getting the NSG dispatched for any such operation. Had this been anywhere else in India and not in Kashmir 100% the NSG would have been on the scene and in charge of all operations, because this is Kashmir the IA wants to run the show.

This is why India desperatly needs the SOCOM up and running YESTERDAY.

 

[Screambowl]

.......................................................

this is to avoid collateral damage.. just imagine if the fire with full force ... like they do it at LOC what will happen?

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

@abingdonboy

The US has a similar vehicle, I had seen it on some Discovery documentary, do you happen to remember its name? It was smaller than this, and seated only one person. They used it for wall breaching. Do you happen to remember its name? I have been googling for a while now, with no luck.

 

[su35]

We all know why sir- inter-service rivalry. We saw post-Pathankot the outrage from former IA officers that the NSG was used in a mission they felt "they" (IA) should have been given. The fact is, in JK the IA is the de facto security provider and the RR commanders have the ability to call in SF teams assigned to their area of responsibility. There is almost no mechanism for an RR commander to call in the NSG- it would be a pretty cumbersome process of the RR calling up the GOC who contacts the IA's Northern Command who contacts the MHA who then sends in the NSG. On the other hand the PARA (SF) are already on call, the RR commander likely knows the SF team leader and getting them on scene will be pretty quick.

I agree the NSG were likely the best to be sent into such a situation but the PARA (SF) would never concede this, once they were on the scene they were going in- that is how these alpha dogs think. There needs to be a institutionalised mechanism for getting the NSG dispatched for any such operation. Had this been anywhere else in India and not in Kashmir 100% the NSG would have been on the scene and in charge of all operations, because this is Kashmir the IA wants to run the show.

This is why India desperatly needs the SOCOM up and running YESTERDAY.

What stupidity is this!!! Loosing young officers in name of honor? It is not bravery but crime. I also think that the communication between army commander and NSG should be simplified.

 

[su35]

The orders were no destruction of civilian property, Heavy armed terrorist fortified in that building, Regulars and SF were forced to flush them out, Para don`t have proper gear and their training is not exactly of NSG types, Here NSG could have preformed better, But why NSG was not involved its not known to me

I am littile confused,who is better then NSG or Para SF

 

[indiandefencefan]

I am littile confused,who is better then NSG or Para SF

the answer is neither.

Comparing the NSG to Para SF is like comparing apples and oranges.

Both units have completely different operational mandates and spheres of influence with the NSG more suited for urban CT, VIP protection and hostage rescue while the Para SF is suited for carrying out COIN ops in undeveloped regions and act as shock troopers for our army in a conventional conflict. Thus the two units cannot be compared to each as they are very different.

 

[hardip]

If you keep up with the 'we are not Pakis' mindset then it means there has been no effective mindset change post 2014 LS elections. Even UPA was using that excuse to go soft on terrorists. These civilians are the ones providing logistical and moral support to the terrorists, otherwise it would be impossible. I hope you remember that one of ours was killed by deception when the father of the terrorist called our soldier to surrender and when he came close, they shot and killed him. @Bornubus narrated it yesterday. Until and unless the rats in the valley KNOW for a fact that we are going to share the pain with them, they are not going to learn. Otherwise there is no incentive for them to co-operate with us. If our Army is fighting against terrorists and Kashmiris are raising slogans in favor of terrorists, then who are we fighting for?

Look at these peaceful seculars gathered for the funeral of terrorists who killed our soldiers :

They are eating our tax money and waging a war on us. Unless some sort of collective cost is inflicted on them, they will not cease.

यहां हमारे जवान शहीद हुए..और उन आतंकवादियों के बारे में क्या कहाा.... जरा पढिए... जय हिंद

 

[hardip]

If you keep up with the 'we are not Pakis' mindset then it means there has been no effective mindset change post 2014 LS elections. Even UPA was using that excuse to go soft on terrorists. These civilians are the ones providing logistical and moral support to the terrorists, otherwise it would be impossible. I hope you remember that one of ours was killed by deception when the father of the terrorist called our soldier to surrender and when he came close, they shot and killed him. @Bornubus narrated it yesterday. Until and unless the rats in the valley KNOW for a fact that we are going to share the pain with them, they are not going to learn. Otherwise there is no incentive for them to co-operate with us. If our Army is fighting against terrorists and Kashmiris are raising slogans in favor of terrorists, then who are we fighting for?

Look at these peaceful seculars gathered for the funeral of terrorists who killed our soldiers :

They are eating our tax money and waging a war on us. Unless some sort of collective cost is inflicted on them, they will not cease.

यहां हमारे जवान शहीद हुए..और उन आतंकवादियों के बारे में क्या कहाा.... जरा पढिए... जय हिंद

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