Indian Ballistic Missile Defense System

[nongaddarliberal]

So you people want to say that we are helpless? Wouldn't we be more helpless if Pakistan get's ABM? What would be our counter to that?

We are not helpless. There are many things we can do short of taking large chunks of territory. We can heat up the border to such an extent that they cannot even pay for replacing the artillery shells. We can conduct comprehensive economic warfare on them that can bring their exports and forex reserves to zero, thereby crashing their economy. We can sponsor and train ethnic separatists in pakistan the same way they have done in Kashmir, which will become an unbearable burden on their army as we can do it in all their provinces other than Punjab.

Now, I don't know why we haven't done all of the above in full force, but we can definitely bring them to their knees with good planning and political will. I just think it is intellectually lazy on our side to keep saying "take POK", "invade pakistan", "bomb rawalpindi" etc etc considering the current nuclear environment. We can choose to live in fantasy and not achieve anything, or we can be practical and steadily attain our desired goals.

 

[captscooby81]

Pictures from Today's AAD Launch Canister version

 

[Kshithij]

We are not helpless. There are many things we can do short of taking large chunks of territory. We can heat up the border to such an extent that they cannot even pay for replacing the artillery shells. We can conduct comprehensive economic warfare on them that can bring their exports and forex reserves to zero, thereby crashing their economy. We can sponsor and train ethnic separatists in pakistan the same way they have done in Kashmir, which will become an unbearable burden on their army as we can do it in all their provinces other than Punjab.

Now, I don't know why we haven't done all of the above in full force, but we can definitely bring them to their knees with good planning and political will. I just think it is intellectually lazy on our side to keep saying "take POK", "invade pakistan", "bomb rawalpindi" etc etc considering the current nuclear environment. We can choose to live in fantasy and not achieve anything, or we can be practical and steadily attain our desired goals.

What is slow and steady? How will you make slow and steady gains? Slow and steady works when things go by natural forces. When artificial forces are involved, it must be blitzkrieg.

Pakistan can't be made bankrupt as the oil money from GCC goes to Pakistan's upkeep. Pakistan itself may not have oil but they are in alliance with oil producers. So, your insane logic of making them bankrupt does not work. Stop suggesting non-violent ways.

How is LOMADS LY80 which Pakistan recently got from China is comparable to AAD-PAD?

This is a SAM like Akash SAM. This is not BMD like AAD-PAD.

 

[Vinod DX9]

India today successfully tested Endo Atmospheric missile defense system . Such success are not uncommon in Indian missile test, but the test conducted today was much special. And it can change the future of Indian BMDS forever. Here are 12 reasons we know so far you should be existed!

1) Today , possibly , an advanced version of AAD was tested, which is much capable than previous versions.

2) Target missile mimicked an enemy Medium Range Ballistic Missile which was simulated launched from 1500 KM away.

3) For the first time , electronically simulated multiple targets were used. The interceptor had to identify real target.

4) It was a real time basis interception. This was executed successfully by the launched interceptor as confirmed by electro-optical tracking, radar and telemetry.

5) The AAD interceptor was initially guided by its on-board Inertial Navigation System (INS) which received continuous updates about the incoming target’s trajectory from ground-based radars through a secure data link.

6) A radio frequency (RF) seeker in AAD’s nose cone section tracked the target while an intercept course was plotted by its On Board Computer (OBC) .

7) The guidance package of AAD has a fibre optic gyroscope (FOG) at the heart of an INS which receives updates from ground based radars such as the Long Range Tracking Radar (LRTR) and the Multi-function Fire Control Radar (MFCR).

8) Today LRTR L-band array was used, capable of tracking a ballistic target with a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of 0.1 sqm from over 1500 km away !

9) The MFCR S-band array which was used has a tracking range of over 370 km for a target with a RCS of 0.3 sqm.

10) Today's test proved India's capability to intercept the real target from a flight of Decoys! So if enemy uses decoys it will be a futile attempt for them.

11) Chief of Air Staff, Indian Air force, Air Chief Marshal B.S Dhanoa witnessed this test.

12) This can be an indication that system is ready for induction into the force!

 

[Willy3]

Pictures from Today's AAD Launch Canister version

View attachment 26787 View attachment 26788

What's the function of those cement bags? ( Most probably sand inside)

 

[binayak95]

India today successfully tested Endo Atmospheric missile defense system . Such success are not uncommon in Indian missile test, but the test conducted today was much special. And it can change the future of Indian BMDS forever. Here are 12 reasons we know so far you should be existed!

1) Today , possibly , an advanced version of AAD was tested, which is much capable than previous versions.

2) Target missile mimicked an enemy Medium Range Ballistic Missile which was simulated launched from 1500 KM away.

3) For the first time , electronically simulated multiple targets were used. The interceptor had to identify real target.

4) It was a real time basis interception. This was executed successfully by the launched interceptor as confirmed by electro-optical tracking, radar and telemetry.

5) The AAD interceptor was initially guided by its on-board Inertial Navigation System (INS) which received continuous updates about the incoming target’s trajectory from ground-based radars through a secure data link.

6) A radio frequency (RF) seeker in AAD’s nose cone section tracked the target while an intercept course was plotted by its On Board Computer (OBC) .

7) The guidance package of AAD has a fibre optic gyroscope (FOG) at the heart of an INS which receives updates from ground based radars such as the Long Range Tracking Radar (LRTR) and the Multi-function Fire Control Radar (MFCR).

8) Today LRTR L-band array was used, capable of tracking a ballistic target with a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of 0.1 sqm from over 1500 km away !

9) The MFCR S-band array which was used has a tracking range of over 370 km for a target with a RCS of 0.3 sqm.

10) Today's test proved India's capability to intercept the real target from a flight of Decoys! So if enemy uses decoys it will be a futile attempt for them.

11) Chief of Air Staff, Indian Air force, Air Chief Marshal B.S Dhanoa witnessed this test.

12) This can be an indication that system is ready for induction into the force!
View attachment 26789 View attachment 26790

GOOD! Develop a long range SAM variant too for use against aircraft and create our iteration of the SM-2 missile for deployment on IN DDGs

 

[sayareakd]

2) Target missile mimicked an enemy Medium Range Ballistic Missile which was simulated launched from 1500 KM away.

3) For the first time , electronically simulated multiple targets were used. The interceptor had to identify real target.


8) Today LRTR L-band array was used, capable of tracking a ballistic target with a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of 0.1 sqm from over 1500 km away !

9) The MFCR S-band array which was used has a tracking range of over 370 km for a target with a RCS of 0.3 sqm.

10) Today's test proved India's capability to intercept the real target from a flight of Decoys! So if enemy uses decoys it will be a futile attempt for them.


12) This can be an indication that system is ready for induction into the force!
View attachment 26789 View attachment 26790

Great info.
One radar could take care of entire Pakistan. As its part of our umbrella against ballistic missile and cruise missiles in future.

We need to make AAD to be launched as Air to Air missile to be launched from SU30MKI.

If that happens Pak will run for cover

 

[Kshithij]

Great info.
One radar could take care of entire Pakistan. As its part of our umbrella against ballistic missile and cruise missiles in future.

We need to make AAD to be launched as Air to Air missile to be launched from SU30MKI.

If that happens Pak will run for cover

You are expecting a launch of AAD missile vertically from Su30? The missile has to be launched vertically as it moves up initially. The incoming ballistic missile may be too high in the air and one has to wait for it to re-enter and then shoot AAD at the re-entry point. So, Su30 makes little sense. Ballistic missile can't be intercepted on the border but only at re-entry point or launch point.

In case of SAM, it is use to intercept incoming planes, UAV and cruise missile and can be placed across border to fortify and ensure that no endo-atmospheric object crosses the border. But exo atmospheric ones like ballistic missiles can't be stopped when high up outside atmosphere. Intercept altitude is at most about 100km even for system like THAAD.

 

[sayareakd]

You are expecting a launch of AAD missile vertically from Su30? The missile has to be launched vertically as it moves up initially. The incoming ballistic missile may be too high in the air and one has to wait for it to re-enter and then shoot AAD at the re-entry point. So, Su30 makes little sense. Ballistic missile can't be intercepted on the border but only at re-entry point or launch point.

In case of SAM, it is use to intercept incoming planes, UAV and cruise missile and can be placed across border to fortify and ensure that no endo-atmospheric object crosses the border. But exo atmospheric ones like ballistic missiles can't be stopped when high up outside atmosphere. Intercept altitude is at most about 100km even for system like THAAD.

Drdo presentation...................................................

 

[Enquirer]

Great info.
One radar could take care of entire Pakistan. As its part of our umbrella against ballistic missile and cruise missiles in future.

We need to make AAD to be launched as Air to Air missile to be launched from SU30MKI.

If that happens Pak will run for cover

The air launched one (if it materializes) would be the AD-1/AD-2 missiles as they are designed to be much lighter and have higher altitude ceilings.
AAD has pretty low altitude ceiling (&range) that it won't be able to chase a missile climbing up at supersonic speeds (that too at a stand-off distance from the launching aircraft) and catch up to it.

 

[Enquirer]

What's the function of those cement bags? ( Most probably sand inside)

Probably just a perimeter to keep folks off the blast zone!

 

[Enquirer]

What can be done is first the missile can be allowed to free fall with a pilot parachute to make it vertical and then the boosters can be fired.
Has been tested by US on BMs

You're talking about air-launched BALLISTIC missiles (for ground targets) - which are not that much in vogue nowadays!
There are also air-launched missiles for ballistic missiles as targets - these are carried in low-drag canisters that open up to drop them. But there are no parachutes involved. Parachutes are needed for the first category of missiles to make them upright (for ballistic trajectory)

 

[Enquirer]

you can pre program the trajectory or post program the trajectory.

I am just saying that the anti-ballistic missile that are air launched are not 'made vertical via a parachute'. Instead they move straight ahead and curve upwards (as shown in one of the pics above).
Irrespective of what choreography is possible or not possible, you need to remember that a missile seeking to intercept in the boost phase has to be extremely quick to close into the enemy ballistic missile before the ballistic missile 'gets away' to hundreds of kms up in the altitude - so deploying a parachute etc eats into the time!

 

[Flame Thrower]

View attachment 26800

Drdo presentation...................................................

Sir, how is any airplane going to detect ballistic missile.

The aim of the ballistic missile is to hide and launch missiles.

America had less difficult concept, i.e identify moving ballistic missiles and then bomb them before soviets could launch their missiles. B-2 was born out of this stupid idea. If I remember correctly, the soviet missile deployment(during 80's) and firing was done under 5 min.

When this concept was combat tested i.e Scuds in Iraq, it failed miserably. By the way Iraqi scuds took 30 min to launch. I don't remember any of the scuds being destroyed on ground.

However I really like the idea. What I'd propose is a cargo plane carrying 8 AADs, with aesa radar as targeting system, an IL 76(improved) act as detection along with SATs and other ground radars providing cover for city(say delhi).

This can complement ground based PDV and AADs. Thus adding more protection.

Thus I rest my case.

 

[Enquirer]

Sir, how is any airplane going to detect ballistic missile.

The aim of the ballistic missile is to hide and launch missiles.

America had less difficult concept, i.e identify moving ballistic missiles and then bomb them before soviets could launch their missiles. B-2 was born out of this stupid idea. If I remember correctly, the soviet missile deployment(during 80's) and firing was done under 5 min.

When this concept was combat tested i.e Scuds in Iraq, it failed miserably. By the way Iraqi scuds took 30 min to launch. I don't remember any of the scuds being destroyed on ground.

However I really like the idea. What I'd propose is a cargo plane carrying 8 AADs, with aesa radar as targeting system, an IL 76(improved) act as detection along with SATs and other ground radars providing cover for city(say delhi).

This can complement ground based PDV and AADs. Thus adding more protection.

Thus I rest my case.

You're correct that intercepting in the boost phase is extremely difficult and most attempts have been unsuccessful.

Boeing tried to develop the 'airborne laser' about 20 years ago - as light is the quickest way to get to a ballistic missile while its still in the boost phase (which normally is just few tens of seconds). But it never took off due to challenges in focusing the laser beam at such a fast moving missile & not to mention having the ability to charge/recharge the capacitor banks in air! (they're trying to resurrect the project in some way again I think).

Missile based boost phase interception 'concept' exists, but I don't think has been deployed.

Only deployed technologies are 'mid-phase' interception & 'terminal phase' interception.

DRDO scientists will collect all the fancy ideas from all over and present them as something they could do - even though it never materializes as a working product!

Similarly a bunch of folks on this thread think Kaveri is a 'variable cycle' engine because DRDO scientists dreamed of it!

 

[Flame Thrower]

Let's not get into kaveri in this thread.

I understand that you're not trying to, but please remove it from your post. Mere mention of it could ruin this thread....

And coming to ideas, let research happen, there is hell lot of difference between theory and practice.

Funny part is boost phase is the only time we can intercept and destroy missile with greater possibility if the friendly assets can identify and intercept. But the problem is it is near impossible to identify and engage any ballistic missile during the boost phase.

American approach of destroying ballistic missiles through laser is the ideal approach, but today's tech doesn't support.

 

[no smoking]

So you people want to say that we are helpless? Wouldn't we be more helpless if Pakistan get's ABM? What would be our counter to that?

Basically, for countries sitting shoulder to shoulder without any geographic buffer zone, with the current technological level, the effectiveness of ABM is minimized as the lack of early warning time.

 

[Enquirer]

Let's not get into kaveri in this thread.

I understand that you're not trying to, but please remove it from your post. Mere mention of it could ruin this thread....

And coming to ideas, let research happen, there is hell lot of difference between theory and practice.

Funny part is boost phase is the only time we can intercept and destroy missile with greater possibility if the friendly assets are can identify and intercept. But the problem is it is near impossible to identify and engage any ballistic missile during the boost phase.

American approach of destroying ballistic missiles through laser is the ideal approach, but today's tech doesn't support.

Yes, it's difficult to detect the ballistic missile in boost phase ubiquitously using conventional radar techniques. US relies on thermal imagery from satellites. Once detected, unless you have your air assets (even in the form of air borne laser) one cannot intercept in the boost phase.

In the Indian context, detecting and destroying ballistic missiles in boost phase "maybe" possible on the Pakistani front but will be difficult on the Chinese front (as Pak is shallow & China has a lot of depth beyond the border).
An AWACS could possibly detect Pak launching BM, and if anti-BM missile bearing aircraft were on patrol then they could conceivable destroy them.
Even for the US, boost phase interception maybe possible only in the context of tiny countries like North Korea. Almost impossible in the Russian context.

 

[sayareakd]

Guys check and tell me what exactly going on this test of Dec 2017.

 

[sayareakd]

In the Indian context, detecting and destroying ballistic missiles in boost phase "maybe" possible on the Pakistani front but will be difficult on the Chinese front (as Pak is shallow & China has a lot of depth beyond the border).
An AWACS could possibly detect Pak launching BM, and if anti-BM missile bearing aircraft were on patrol then they could conceivable destroy them.

Exactly................ we need strategy from possible launch sites, to detection of TEL, taking them out, to detect launch, counter measures within Pakistani airspace to tracking and taking out Pak missile in our airspace.