Indian Army T- 90 (Bhishma) and T- 72 (M-1) Tanks

[Bleh]

It's an inherent danger with all Soviet-style MBTs, heck it's the danger of stowing ammo in the hull in general. Look at what happened to the Turkish Leo 2s. My unsolicited advice for the Indian gunners - just aim for the hull fellas, aim for the hulls.

In that respect Arjuns below hull blow-off panels & new fuel-tank-cum-ammo-racks (these two could be for NGMBT though, not sure) are pretty ingenious.

 

[Bleh]

It's turret armour is 57mm because as you mentioned rightly so whole thing has been made modular, more armour + ERA can be added according to threat.
It is protected by probably the most advance APS ever Afghanit. It doesn't need a thick armour in first place at least not for now.

That's why i said, it's all good on theory but not tested in fields. Volley fire exists. The shot can come from a weird angle. It only has 10 destroyer charges, that too 5 in each side.
If Afganit was really impenetrable then the hull would have all its armor before to protect from the only remaining threat, IEDs... But no, its head the most heavily protected hull in the world.

 

[Emperor Kalki]

Ok, saw all the commotion here...
I think atleast some of the "experts" here need a crash course on tank ammunition (especially APFSDS) and armour....
Here's a quick and quite easy solution....if you haven't watched it already...
If you want you can skip to the APFSDS part....

Expecting a lot of knee jerk, a-hole replies.

Your's lovingly
Kalki...​

 

[ArgonPrime]

Ok, saw all the commotion here...
I think atleast some of the "experts" here need a crash course on tank ammunition (especially APFSDS) and armour....
Here's a quick and quite easy solution....if you haven't watched it already...
If you want you can skip to the APFSDS part....

Expecting a lot of knee jerk, a-hole replies.

Your's lovingly
Kalki...​

Congratulations, you discovered the Koala, so you wanna cookie for that now??

 

[Haldilal]

@Bleh nibba The T 90s comes with which engine 950 HP one or 1130 HP one?
And which is better in overall protection T 90 S or the VT 4 paki variant?

 

[Bleh]

Expecting a lot of knee jerk, a-hole replies.

​

Ofcourse you do, acting smartass is your thing. But I'm pretty sure your guy is wrong.

When a tanks Armor is stated as 500mm against APFSDS, that means any APFSDS that penetrates 550mm of RHA will penetrate it... Maybe the actual LOS thickness be 450mm of ceramic tiles, or 650 mm, but the protection value is given compared RHS plates.
The same armour that is 500mm against APFSDS, may be 800mm against HEAT, because of the composition of materials.

But RHA thickness is like a standard unit of measurement for protection.

Regarding the video... If APFSDS that'll penetrate 450mm at RHS, WILL WILL & WILL be stopped by any composite armour that claims to have protection value equivalent of 500mm RHA, or else they're just false advertising!
(Minor variation is possible due to variation in interaction between different materials of the APFSDS & armour composition. Different 450mm rated APFSDS may score different penetrations that too changing with different ranges, but nothing too drastic).

@Bleh nibba The T 90s comes with which engine 950 HP one or 1130 HP one?
And which is better in overall protection T 90 S or the VT 4 paki variant?

Our original T-90S (cast turret batch of 300 odd) had 840hp, present ones has 1000hp. I read a news that they want 1200-1300hp as an upgrade by downsizing the desi 1500hp.

Russian T-90AM use, 1250hp but export variant MS has 1130hp.

 

[Emperor Kalki]

Hopeless.....bye...

 

[Haldilal]

Ofcourse you do, acting smartass is your thing. But I'm pretty sure your guy is wrong.

When a tanks Armor is stated as 500mm against APFSDS, that means any APFSDS that penetrates 500mm of RHA will penetrate it... Maybe the actual LOS thickness be 450mm of ceramic tiles, or 650 mm, but the protection value is given compared RHS plates.
The same armour that is 500mm against APFSDS, may be 800mm against HEAT, because of the composition of materials.

But RHA thickness is like a standard unit of measurement for protection.

Regarding the video... If APFSDS that'll penetrate 450mm at RHS, WILL WILL & WILL be stopped by any composite armour that claims to have protection value equivalent of 500mm RHA, or else they're just false advertising!
(Minor variation is possible due to variation in interaction between different materials of the APFSDS & armour composition, but nothing too drastic).


Our original T-90S (cast turret batch of 300 odd) had 840hp, present ones has 1000hp. I read a news that they want 1200-1300hp as an upgrade by downsizing the desi 1500hp.

Russian T-90AM use, 1250hp but export variant MS has 1130hp.

Ya'll Nibbiars so presently our T 90S has 21.3 HP with a 1300 HP upgrade we will have a 27.2 HP ratio.

 

[Bleh]

Ya'll Nibbiars so presently our T 90S has 21.3 HP with a 1300 HP upgrade we will have a 27.2 HP ratio.

Presently, yes.
46.5 ton tanks with 1000hp, same as 65 ton Mark1A running with 1400hp.

But upgraded tanks (if any such upgrade actually happens) may be heavier of they add bustle or ERA or additional blocks... So can't be predicted.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Hopeless.....bye...

Yeah, bye bye, we know you need to get back to licking his white Scottish arse.

 

[Haldilal]

When compared to the VT 4 Paki variant 23 Hp to our 21.3 T 90S HP it dosent make that difference. The only thing its superior is the APS right?

 

[Deathstar]

What happened to in house development of 1500 hp engine for tanks? Or why can't we look at the German engine used on Turkish Altay tanks....
Also any news about Indian APS development?

 

[Bleh]

When compared to the VT 4 Paki variant 23 Hp to our 21.3 T 90S HP it dosent make that difference. The only thing its superior is the APS right?

I know our less protected tanks come close at T/W 22.7, with Arjun Mk1 at 1400hp for 61.5tn & Ajeya Mk2 at 1000hp for 44t.
Otherwise, you need to know the torque transmission with adjacent RPM value.

But VT-4 has pretty much every subsystem better than T-90, especially fire-control system & sensors. Our old T-90s are barely comparable to T-84 Oplot that VT-4 beat in two competitions.

What happened to in house development of 1500 hp engine for tanks?...
...Also any news about Indian APS development?

Funding low, progress slow. No news in while, I doubt its being prioritised.

 

[Bleh]

So either upgrade our T 90S to new standards or VT 4 will have upper gain on the T 90S.

Yep, that's how upgradation works.

I am actually surprised indifferent Indian Army is to its opponents advanceing far ahead!..
Platform specific dis/advantages aside, both AK-1 & VT-4 are much ahead of our T-90s on every single technological aspect.I think I've shared this before, but this is how bad T-90's gun stabilisation is (as the narrator says cheesy crap about its accuracy, the gun keeps losing it target Lol):

 

[Haldilal]

How the chinese become leader in the tank technology even beating the OPlot Tank?
We need to Invest heavily in the Tank to stay ahead.

 

[Bleh]

How the chinese become leader in the tank technology even beating the OPlot Tank?
We need to Invest heavily in the Tank to stay ahead.

By doing the 2nd part... And we actually have the tech, but as I mentioned before almost nothing has been carried over to Tg90 from Arjun/Tank-Ex

But firstly we need to move every single piece of spare ammunition from the hull to turret bustle.

 

[Haldilal]

By doing the 2nd part... And we actually have the tech, but as I mentioned before almost nothing has been carried over to Tg90 from Arjun/Tank-Ex

But firstly we need to move every single piece of spare ammunition from the hull to turret bustle. View attachment 60306

So a auto turret with ammunition in it and heavily armoured. Hull compact like the T 72 size but increase in height to accommodate the Crew in the hull with both front and side armoured heavily. Better FCS and stabilizers for the guns and better suspension. Better electronic and Optics with a advance APS. While keeping the weight to 50 tonnes.
Is that what are you suggesting @Bleh?

 

[ArgonPrime]

How the chinese become leader in the tank technology even beating the OPlot Tank?
We need to Invest heavily in the Tank to stay ahead.

Not quite true. From purely a traditional point of view, the BM Oplot is still the superior of the two as it has got significantly better armor and firepower but its electronics have become obsolescent and that's basically the primary factor that worked against it.

 

[fire starter]

Not quite true. From purely a traditional point of view, the BM Oplot is still the superior of the two as it has got significantly better armor and firepower but its electronics have become obsolescent and that's basically the primary factor that worked against it.

upgrading electronics is not a big deal.

 

[ArgonPrime]

So a auto turret with ammunition in it and heavily armoured. Hull compact like the T 72 size but increase in height to accommodate the Crew in the hull with both front and side armoured heavily. Better FCS and stabilizers for the guns and better suspension. Better electronic and Optics with a advance APS. While keeping the weight to 50 tonnes.
Is that what are you suggesting @Bleh?

Pretty much but the weight will have to be in the 60 - 65 ton range. I mean, even with such pathetic turret armor, the Armata weighs 55+ ton, so no way we can keep the overall weight limited to 50 ton or below.