Indian Army T- 90 (Bhishma) and T- 72 (M-1) Tanks

ArgonPrime

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Relikt is twice as effective as K-5. So if ERA Mk2 has similar performance to K-5 , than it is not Relikt .VT-4 FY4 ERA is licensed copy of Relikt ( i am skeptic about this though, but it might be true ). It will be a headache if pukes went for it in numbers.
time to go for Armata.

View attachment 60363

Look like we are going to be the first foreign customer. Milk the holy cow, russian style :lol:
Not at all!! That would be the most terrible fucking idea. We need to build the next FMBT on our own.
 

ArgonPrime

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Nah, I think it's solid. Why would they put spaced armour instead of ERA!?..
The same reason why the Germans did it. Here, check it out -

And even if those add on modules are solid blocks, it's likely that they are made of lighter materials and likely won't be more effective than a heavy ERA would have been.
 

Bleh

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The same reason why the Germans did it. Here, check it out -

And even if those add on modules are solid blocks, it's likely that they are made of lighter materials and likely won't be more effective than a heavy ERA would have been.
The why isn't every tanks side armour made like that, as it is in Type10?.. It'd be even more effective at that angle.
 

ArgonPrime

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The why isn't every tanks side armour made like that, as it is in Type10?.. It'd be even more effective at that angle.
Different design philosophies perhaps. And let's face it, we human beings aren't the most rational creatures, take our example for a case study.
 

shiphone

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VT-4 turret front has the FY-4 ERA blocks (the same as those on hull front and turret top) covered with thin plates....


--------------
about the FY-4 ERA.
this is the export varient of 4th gen ERA project in China,it got the export permit in 2014, but it has been 40 years old. the layout inside the 'box' was revealed in 2017. I won't post it here now but a little description : forward direction counterattack Shaped charge +inclined V shape 2-layer ERA plates.



something for reference


+
 
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Swiftfarts

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VT-4 turret front has the FY-4 ERA blocks (the same as those on hull front and turret top) covered with thin plates....


--------------
about the FY-4 ERA.
this is the export varient of 4th gen ERA project in China,it got the export permit in 2014, but it has been 40 years old. the layout inside the 'box' was revealed in 2017. I won't post it here now but a little description : forward direction counterattack Shaped charge +inclined V shape 2-layer ERA plates.



something for reference


+
@Bleh
 

Flying Dagger

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Look like i made a mistake its Relikt which provides protection between 1100 mm-1350 mm against KE.

View attachment 60418

while Armata ERA Malachit provide upwards of even that :eek1:. @Bleh see Armata doesn't need such a thick armour after all.

So it doesn't look like that FY 4 is a copy of Relikt. I don't think it comes close even to K 5. Since Indian army is not in a hurry for a upgrade. @Haldilal
Please take down the map didn't expected from russia.
 

JBH22

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Look like i made a mistake its Relikt which provides protection between 1100 mm-1350 mm against KE.

View attachment 60418

while Armata ERA Malachit provide upwards of even that :eek1:. @Bleh see Armata doesn't need such a thick armour after all.

So it doesn't look like that FY 4 is a copy of Relikt. I don't think it comes close even to K 5. Since Indian army is not in a hurry for a upgrade. @Haldilal
India defence planners are complacent, pakis makes the best out of their buck. Wait for some skirmish get our ass kick then only we take decision. Pakistan you have to give them credit they use their scarce resources wisely. They have crafted their strategy based on threat perception and budget.
Our guys keep asking for the money without any logical planning. If I'm not mistaken the T-90 bought is 2001 is same as the one we are acquiring in 2020
 

Bleh

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If I'm not mistaken the T-90 bought is 2001 is same as the one we are acquiring in 2020
2001 match had cast turret... These are same as 2007 batch (although full configuration details of the latest 464 purchase is not known).
 

Swiftfarts

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India defence planners are complacent, pakis makes the best out of their buck. Wait for some skirmish get our ass kick then only we take decision. Pakistan you have to give them credit they use their scarce resources wisely. They have crafted their strategy based on threat perception and budget.
Our guys keep asking for the money without any logical planning. If I'm not mistaken the T-90 bought is 2001 is same as the one we are acquiring in 2020
How does paki's makes the best out of their buck? none of there tank matches T 90S.
do not fall for Chinese and Pukes propaganda. Pukes were still hoping to get T 90 until all doors closed. VT 4 was not what they really wanted.
Kontakt 5 ERA itself has gone through a evolution which finally culminated into Relikt. VT 4 according to norinco provides only 700mm protection against KE. add 100mm to it as classified Chinese tech( FY 4 ERA) , that's still lower than Kontakt 5. Indian army would have gone for T 90M level upgrade with Relikt if it was such a threat. Instead they ordered more T 90S why ?.
 

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Could you give more details how?
Regarding ERA: Kontact 5 was a very effective ERA in the 1980s, which claimed to reduce the penetration of HEAT warheads by 70% and APFSDS by 20%. It became a industry standard in terms of performance. Every ERA that came after that claims 1.5-2 times better performance, be it Nozh and Duplet (Ukraine), ERAWA (Poland), Relikit and Malachit (Russia). However, these are just claims by the developers and no test results were shown or doccumented.
Also, in most tests results that are documented which do involve ERA, you will see HEAT resistance results, but not APFSDS results.

Regarding APS: Russians claim Afghanit can intercept DU FSASPDS rounds which travel at 1.5 -1.7 km/s. However, again no test results are showm.
The most widely tested and fielded hard kill APS called Trophy can at maximum intercept ATGM and RPGS etc. with a max velocity of 250-300 m/s. How come Russia moved so far ahead of Isarelis and the rest of the world?

Also, if Afghanit and Malachit are so effective, why have composite armour in T-14 armata at all. You could just install those systems in a Tata Nano car, and it will hands down beat a M1A2 Abrams any day.
 

JBH22

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How does paki's makes the best out of their buck? none of there tank matches T 90S.
do not fall for Chinese and Pukes propaganda. Pukes were still hoping to get T 90 until all doors closed. VT 4 was not what they really wanted.
Kontakt 5 ERA itself has gone through a evolution which finally culminated into Relikt. VT 4 according to norinco provides only 700mm protection against KE. add 100mm to it as classified Chinese tech( FY 4 ERA) , that's still lower than Kontakt 5. Indian army would have gone for T 90M level upgrade with Relikt if it was such a threat. Instead they ordered more T 90S why ?.
One thing you are always playing catch up they introduced sniper rifles wrecked havoc then only high command woke up and got the sniper rifles.
Same thing happened with tank their approached Ukraine and China to bolster their tanks.
Don't trust what top brass keeps feeding you also.
 

Shashank Nayak

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Could you give more details how?
25 year old M829A2 penetrates turret protected by Kontakt 5 at 2000 meters.. even when the sabot was broken. Even Relikt or Malachit might not completely stop modern sabots.. And can you even safely add ERA like Malachit on ARMATA turret. Because the impact of ERA explosion itself might knock out the thin turret..
If India goes for an import, it better go fo K2 black panther.. also it is designed to operate in hilly terrain..
 

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ERA works to a limited extend against APFSDS. It cannot defeat it completely like the HEAT warhead, but reduces it penetration performance by a certain extend. The metal plates of the ERA generally tries to break the APFSDS dart. However, both DU and WC based penetrators are extremely hard to break in the first place.
 

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