Indian Army T- 90 (Bhishma) and T- 72 (M-1) Tanks

porky_kicker

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Al-Khalid-1 seems to throughly outclass our 464 obsolete T-90S in every single parameter I looked for!

It's a joint venture between Pakistan, China, and Ukraine. Thanks to them its now has bi-axis gun stabilisation, anti thermal/IR coatings from Intermat Defence, possibly some BMS feature, new sights & sensors.View attachment 59004
New composite armour, possibly to mount Ukrainian Varta or Chink JM-3 dazzler active protection system as "improved urban warfare capability" was mentioned.

They apparently increased the autoloader size that now carries more rounds. Overall 49 rounds.

Mobility is claimed to have improved, but same engine. From the footages, its seems they upgrades the suspension & transmission.
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The latest T-90M-P3 is a completely different beast compared to ours. Atleast the Arjun's subsystems need to be installed & maybe the spare ammo moved to turret-bustle.
View attachment 59007
The question should be asked to the army , why they selected the T90 in the first place and then after some time start asking drdo and Pvt companies for upgrades to improve the performance . When they bought the T90 in the first place did they not know it was not worth it . Ironically if you noticed army doesn't not ask for upgrades from the Russians . I wonder why given they bought the T90 from the Russians in the first place.
 

vishnugupt

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1. Army didn't order those due to price difference. The Sig costed 990 dollar somewhat lesser than Arsenal copy of OFB. OFB had ample time but they kept coming back with some superficial change and shoddy job continues.
2. But they will be buying licensed version of AK -203 from OFB Amethi /Russian JV. It will take care of quality and make in India both. We should have gone with the licensed route much earlier like porks OFB did.
You should learn to answer a question rather than answering a question with another question.
You mean IA don't know how much a needed rifle cost ?? btw.. what happened to their GSQR?? its true, OFB is insufficient but IA also never gave clear requirements so don't give 100% blame to OFB

3.What you are calling piece meal are actually pretty big order size if you compare it with other countries who still produce quality product in small numbers. High cost is understandable but why compromise with quality ?
So 6 Apache for IA is pretty big or 150000 sig716 also big. ? Rest, you just answered the first point with your 3rd point.

We pay more for HAL built Sukhoi , T 90s or OFB built rifles like TAR (80,000) while original Arsenal were bought for 35-40,000 rs
Another lie. So-called defence experts just compared Su-30 manufactured for RuIF with an export version of Su-30 where we have to pay TOT fees, outsources avionics from France and Israel. Obviously it will be costlier compare to jets produce for RuIF. You can check Price difference between Su-30 made for RuIF and foreign costumer.

4. Bharat Forge etc haven't lost a shit they are Pvt companies and make money out of the deals they make in.

Companies need to take risk and invest in the sector. And gov will have to provide support too. Our Pvt sector isn't ready to enter due to high entry cost and long bureaucratic procedure like in case of Rafale.
You probably deliberately skiped MRF. Btw Bharat forge have to do trials in the USA and IA who is always ready to buy American LWH has nothing to say to LWH made by Bharat Forge. The government have to bring Import ban list to save the private industry from IA malpractice

Anyway Indian defence industry need Pvt players to end hegemony of psu which needs strong political will and had started happening but it takes time to develop such capability. With OFB Amethi we can be assured of rifles and other small arms of good quality coming out .

Armed Forces treat product based on their quality. Sure there are kickback involved but if domestic industry can provide good option like in case of howitzer there won't be any need to lookout.
Have you asked any private company why they stay away from our Armed forces ?? You simply didn't know why 'Import ban list" came into existence. India built 10000 crores industry within 2 months from scratch ( Remember mask, sanitizer, Ventilator, kits for Covid-19) but unable to do in the defence sector. why?? Because the customer is not reliable. Please go and check why we have to make Import ban list when we could have told this simply by using few words to Armed forces.

Please get some knowledge before giving sweeping blindfolded, memorised statements again and again. There is a reason IA use around 90% of its machinery from foreign origin. And stop pretending that Armed forces are like a child, they don't know anything, They have no responsibility just wake up each morning and start crying "where is my new rifle". Armed force must stop treating others as a slave.
Goodbye.
 

Flying Dagger

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The question should be asked to the army , why they selected the T90 in the first place and then after some time start asking drdo and Pvt companies for upgrades to improve the performance . When they bought the T90 in the first place did they not know it was not worth it . Ironically if you noticed army doesn't not ask for upgrades from the Russians . I wonder why given they bought the T90 from the Russians in the first place.
No fault of T90 it's worth the money.

Army bought it strip down in the beginning itself and in last 2 decades tech have evolved not degrade.

But while Russian are improving on T 90s we were only assembling and license producing. Ideally DRDO itself should have come out with the improved T 90s upgrade package.

Every system needs continual upgrade to be relevant. Rafale of today won't be relevant in next 20 yr without an upgrade. Sukhoi which was unchallenged king in last decade needs upgrade to stay relevant now .

A long pending engine upgrade of 1500 hp for all tank types in operation

APS like Trophy of Israel and other upgrade will bring T 90s in a much better position against other tank in the vicinity.
 

Flying Dagger

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You should learn to answer a question rather than answering a question with another question.
You mean IA don't know how much a needed rifle cost ?? btw.. what happened to their GSQR?? its true, OFB is insufficient but IA also never gave clear requirements so don't give 100% blame to OFB


So 6 Apache for IA is pretty big or 150000 sig716 also big. ? Rest, you just answered the first point with your 3rd point.


Another lie. So-called defence experts just compared Su-30 manufactured for RuIF with an export version of Su-30 where we have to pay TOT fees, outsources avionics from France and Israel. Obviously it will be costlier compare to jets produce for RuIF. You can check Price difference between Su-30 made for RuIF and foreign costumer.



You probably deliberately skiped MRF. Btw Bharat forge have to do trials in the USA and IA who is always ready to buy American LWH has nothing to say to LWH made by Bharat Forge. The government have to bring Import ban list to save the private industry from IA malpractice



Have you asked any private company why they stay away from our Armed forces ?? You simply didn't know why 'Import ban list" came into existence. India built 10000 crores industry within 2 months from scratch ( Remember mask, sanitizer, Ventilator, kits for Covid-19) but unable to do in the defence sector. why?? Because the customer is not reliable. Please go and check why we have to make Import ban list when we could have told this simply by using few words to Armed forces.

Please get some knowledge before giving sweeping blindfolded, memorised statements again and again. There is a reason IA use around 90% of its machinery from foreign origin. And stop pretending that Armed forces are like a child, they don't know anything, They have no responsibility just wake up each morning and start crying "where is my new rifle". Armed force must stop treating others as a slave.
Goodbye.
Ewww.. same repeated crap.


1. Are you empty up there ?

When IA issued the tender it was obvious L1 will win.

There is a saying an idiot will defeat you by bringing you to his level. Well done you got me.

OFB had more than 2 decades to come up with a product and they failed . If there product were that good they would have atleast some respectable presence in international defence market.

Abba jabba jabba why your clock is stick at 6 Apache? The total order is 22+6 and will be followed by more.

HAL has no product matching Apache standard in heavy attack aircraft.

Just check how did HAL deal when rotor of a newly built Dhruva broke down and IAF complained and asked for the reason. They said they have replaced it with new so there is no need to get into it. That's their fcuking quality standard.

Better you look at your house and tell me which brand of mobile tv fridge Iron bike car etc you are using ?

For yourself you want imported stuff but for army you have an issue.

Get well soon.
 

Bleh

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The question should be asked to the army , why they selected the T90 in the first place and then after some time start asking drdo and Pvt companies for upgrades to improve the performance . When they bought the T90 in the first place did they not know it was not worth it . Ironically if you noticed army doesn't not ask for upgrades from the Russians . I wonder why given they bought the T90 from the Russians in the first place.
I think R&D agencies thinks like that too, which is why not a single tech from the Arjun has been offered up for integration with T-90... Not the most productive line of thought.

As I mentioned before, we could completely overhaul its subsystems, & add turret bustle. Would be way easier to go China's way & develope FMBT based on T-xx platform.
But while Russian are improving on T 90s we were only assembling and license producing. Ideally DRDO itself should have come out with the improved T 90s upgrade package.

Every system needs continual upgrade to be relevant. Rafale of today won't be relevant in next 20 yr without an upgrade. Sukhoi which was unchallenged king in last decade needs upgrade to stay relevant now
 

fire starter

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3rd gen TI can be installed even on Paki T-59s... I was talking about the platforms.
Right now t90 doesn't have that. Unless we upgrade them with new sights, APU,IFF system, ERAmk2 . But in terms of firepower t90 will remain superior to t72.
 

Bleh

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Right now t90 doesn't have that. Unless we upgrade them with new sights, APU,IFF system, ERAmk2 . But in terms of firepower t90 will remain superior to t72.
Not really.. Those T-72B3 have better guns than out T-90,same as T-90 MS.
 

Bleh

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I am talking about Indian t72.
Well they shouldn't be... Bangladeshi upgraded Type-59G 'Durjoy' has a same gun as their MBT-2000 & our T-90.
Actually that kid got more turret & hull armour than both Ajeya & Al-Khalid.
FB_IMG_1576090257404.jpg
FB_IMG_1576670276276 (1).jpg


There you go, light tanks done right... Everyone spends better than us!
 
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fire starter

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Well they shouldn't be... Bangladeshi upgraded Type-59G 'Durjoy' has a same gun as their MBT-2000 & our T-90.
Actually that kid got more turret & hull armour than both Ajeya & Al-Khalid. View attachment 59364

There you go, light tanks done right... Everyone spends better than us.
Actually they are assembling just like porkis whereas we are manufacturing gun on our own since Russia refused to share TOT. I don't see the firepower of t90 and t72 getting increased unless our 125mm NGMBT gun along with auto loader gets ready.
 

Bleh

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Actually they are assembling just like porkis whereas we are manufacturing gun on our own since Russia refused to share TOT. I don't see the firepower of t90 and t72 getting increased unless our 125mm NGMBT gun along with auto loader gets ready.
That's the problem. They are assembling but are getting successive upgrades... India is manufacturing or so but has not even attempted to make a 125mm version of our TB or PCB rounds.
 

fire starter

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That's the problem. They are assembling but are getting successive upgrades... India is manufacturing or so but has not even attempted to make a 125mm version of our TB or PCB rounds.
same with CLGM also, DRDO developed 120mm rounds for arjun may be they will also develop 125mm.
 

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