Indian Army SIG Sauer 716 assault rifle.

[another_armchair]

I believe shoot to injury is good strategy for war. if you see videos coming from Ukraine, few injured soldiers effectively end assault and need more man to carry injured to safe ground. In process all become vulnerable for artillery fires.

shoot to kill is best strategy for insurgencies where opponent is fully committed to missions or suicidal missions.

But unfortunately in relentless pursuit for import, our UN generals killed INSAS by giving example of Insurgency in J&K.

As INSAS has killed now again same UN generals demanding 5.6*45 carbine.

Why take a battle rifle like INSAS into a CQB/encounter in built up areas when better options are available?

Am no green beret commando so asking a naive question.

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

I don't buy this "maim your enemy, not kill" bullshit. Out on the battlefield, I want my enemy dead. Remember the war axiom, "Your job is to make sure that your enemy bastard die for his country"

Injuring might be effective or maybe not but I don't think it's even possible to determine that 5.56 ammo will not kill enemy and 7.62 will kill enemy

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

Why take a battle rifle like INSAS into a CQB/encounter in built up areas when better options are available?

Am no green beret commando so asking a naive question.

Maybe they had more ammo for insas as it was made in large numbers

 

[another_armchair]

Maybe they had more ammo for insas as it was made in large numbers

 

[Lonewarrior]

Why take a battle rifle like INSAS into a CQB/encounter in built up areas when better options are available?

Am no green beret commando so asking a naive question.

No one ever took.
Almost all the AK-47s and Vz58s we have are used solely for CI/CT ops. It used to be the perfect scenario where Rashtriya Rifles used 7.62x39mm for CQB and other units used 5.56x45mm for regular use.

Things took a downward spiral when MoD decided to make AK-203 standard issue.

 

[vishnugupt]

Injuring might be effective or maybe not but I don't think it's even possible to determine that 5.56 ammo will not kill enemy and 7.62 will kill enemy

For some extent you can decide, Just check gun shot injury wounds. AK cause worse kind of gun shot injury which is difficult to manage in battle field or difficult to stop bleeding.

Do not ask what if you hit in head? Most of fatalities are not head shots, most likely soldiers get peripheral injuries like shoulders arms.

 

[another_armchair]

No one ever took.
Almost all the AK-47s and Vz58s we have are used solely for CI/CT ops. It used to be the perfect scenario where Rashtriya Rifles used 7.62x39mm for CQB and other units used 5.56x45mm for regular use.

Things took a downward spiral when MoD decided to make AK-203 standard issue.

Saaar...was hoping for Vishnugupt JI to reply as to how 5.56x45 INSAS standard battlefield rifle is a better alternative to 5.56x45 carbine(M4) maybe in CI/CT.

I won't ask anymore asinine questions for the sake of sasta time pass and cause another derailment.

My last on the topic.

 

[vishnugupt]

Why take a battle rifle like INSAS into a CQB/encounter in built up areas when better options are available?

Am no green beret commando so asking a naive question.

Options were always there but If you are UN generals then you have to show indigenous products in negative light otherwise it will be difficult to import.

Commando na hone ki Tension na Iiya Karo dost. Kaun si riffle Khareedni hai ye decide General Saab ke Bachche karte hai… koi commando nhi karta.

 

[Lonewarrior]

5.56x45 INSAS standard battlefield rifle is a better alternative to 5.56x45 carbine

 

[vishnugupt]

View attachment 188247

4Lakhs Carbine tender ki baat kar rha hai.

 

[another_armchair]

View attachment 188247

you missed HOW 5.56x45 INSAS standard battlefield rifle is a better alternative to 5.56x45 carbine

Rehne do bhai, meri angrezi bahut kamzor hai.

 

[vishnugupt]

you missed HOW 5.56x45 INSAS standard battlefield rifle is a better alternative to 5.56x45 carbine

Rehne do bhai, meri angrezi bahut kamzor hai.

Bhai hamari kaun si strong hai.. Angrezi se kuch nhi hota.
According to UN generals INSAS is deemed unfit for service in any possible form or situation. ( In short it’s dead and everyone has accepted it)

So now we need new riffle in 5.56*45 category. Unfortunately there is no local alternate for now so it’s become golden opportunity for import.

INSAS is dead along with its derivatives.

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

View attachment 188247

I think he means 5.56 ammo made by nato compared ofb made 5.56 insas ammo

 

[another_armchair]

Sorry guys, should have phrased it better.

Should have asked Vishnugupt why he thinks INSAS is better than M4.

 

[Lonewarrior]

you missed HOW 5.56x45 INSAS standard battlefield rifle is a better alternative to 5.56x45 carbine

Rehne do bhai, meri angrezi bahut kamzor hai.

काहे इतनी रात गए लोड ले रहें हैं भैया!

इनसास के १८ इंच वाले और एम-४ के १४ इंच वाले बैरल में बस ७५ मीटर प्रति सेकंड का ही फर्क है। और ऊपर से हम भी इनसास के नाम पे वही एसएस१०९ बनाते हैं जो ई ससुरी नाटो इस्तेमाल करती है...इसीलिए चिल करिए भैया।

 

[another_armchair]

काहे इतनी रात गए लोड ले रहें हैं भैया!

इनसास के १८ इंच वाले और एम-४ के १४ इंच वाले बैरल में बस ७५ मीटर प्रति सेकंड का ही फर्क है। और ऊपर से हम भी इनसास के नाम पे वही एसएस१०९ बनाते हैं जो ई ससुरी नाटो इस्तेमाल करती है...इसीलिए चिल करिए भैया।

 

[vishnugupt]

Sorry guys, should have phrased it better.

Should have asked Vishnugupt why he thinks INSAS is better than M4.

I have never said INSAS is better than M4.
You usually find two type of people when they compare weapons. Video game type and realistic type.

Video game type:- These people often tell you A>B, C<B. They don’t give a shit about price, supply and reliability. They think it just like unlocking more sophisticated weapons in video game as game progresses and assured that new unlocked weapon will perform well from previous no matter what. These people often worried about point of contact in war (Initial phase of war)

Realistic type:- These people will give example of war, They are more worried about price, supply, reliability, sustainability of war and outcome of war. Now it is possible A=B, B>A or anything.

Example:- In Indian context, For Gamers (Generals types) Sig riffle is better than AK but from military point of view it is just opposite as we import basic bullets for Sig so can’t fight more then a week and eventually will loss the battle.

Now you decide which riffle is best for us?

 

[another_armchair]

I have never said INSAS is better than M4.
You usually find two type of people when they compare weapons. Video game type and realistic type.

Video game type:- These people often tell you A>B, C<B. They don’t give a shit about price, supply and reliability. They think it just like unlocking more sophisticated weapons in video game as game progresses and assured that new unlocked weapon will perform well from previous no matter what. These people often worried about point of contact in war (Initial phase of war)

Realistic type:- These people will give example of war, They are more worried about price, supply, reliability, sustainability of war and outcome of war. Now it is possible A=B, B>A or anything.

Example:- In Indian context, For Gamers (Generals types) Sig riffle is better than AK but from military point of view it is just opposite as we import basic bullets for Sig so can’t fight more then a week and eventually will loss the battle.

Now you decide which riffle is best for us?

Am too lowly a mortal to decide which rifle is best for us but I'd carry one which is durable, low maintenance, reliable, feels like an extension of my body, has mount points for optics and can easily switch between single & auto.

The INSAS unfortunately doesn't tick all the above nor its derivatives.

Anything that comes close will do.

For less demanding situations, we have the good old L1A1.

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

Am too lowly a mortal to decide which rifle is best for us but I'd carry one which is durable, low maintenance, reliable, feels like an extension of my body, has mount points for optics and can easily switch between single & auto.

The INSAS unfortunately doesn't tick all the above nor its derivatives.

Anything that comes close will do.

For less demanding situations, we have the good old L1A1.

Ak family has all the varient of every ammo type
If we are choosing a rifle let's stick with it rather than ordering from dozen country

 

[another_armchair]

Ak family has all the varient of every ammo type
If we are choosing a rifle let's stick with it rather than ordering from dozen country
View attachment 188258

Haan ji...

Spoiler