Indian Army`s Assault Rifle Tender In Trouble ..

Kunal Biswas

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All Foreign Assault Rifle under trial failed under Indian conditions.



The Indian Army began the final round of confirmatory trials in support of its requirement for 44,618 close quarter battle (CQB) 5.56 mm carbines and 33.6 million rounds of ammunition on 9 June, defence industry officials told IHS Jane's .

The Beretta ARX-160, Colt M4, and Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) Galil Ace carbines will undergo a series of tests at army establishments and weapon-testing facilities until the end of July. These include weapon sights, furniture, and ammunition trials.

The competing guns will also undergo a "mud test" to gauge their ability to operate in poor conditions, an evaluation all three failed during trials in 2012 in the Rajasthan desert and high-altitude regions.
Source : Indian Army kicks off final carbine trials - IHS Jane's 360

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shekhar

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Bt thy r carbines nt assualt rifels...#mciws is an assult rifel
 

sayareakd

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hope love for foreign maal will decrease, when the generals and soldiers figure out that they cant use these toys in Indian conditions................:taunt1:
 

arnabmit

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Bt thy r carbines nt assualt rifels...#mciws is an assult rifel
Same gun with 8" barrel is PDW, 12" barrel is carbine, 16" barrel is AR and 20" barrel is DMR.

MCIWS is not ready yet.

BTW, using SMS lingo (bt, thy, r, nt) is severely looked down upon in this forum.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Ishapore rifle factory design Rifle goes into mass production ..

KOLKATA: Rifle Factory, Ishapore, one of the oldest ordnance factories in the country, has successfully designed an assault rifle on the lines of the AK-47.Sources in the Ordnance Factory Board said the prototype of this weapon had successfully cleared field trials by the Army, the Indian Air Force and the Sashastra Seema Bal. The Ishapore factory will soon start production of 50,000 units of this rifle in the first phase.

For over a decade now, the Ordnance Factory Board has been attempting to develop an indigenous assault rifle on the lines of the AK-47. Initially, there was some embarrassment after an ordnance factory displayed an indigenous replica of the AK-47 at a defence expo in Delhi. This didn't go unnoticed and Mikhail Kalashnikov, the inventor of the world's most sold and used assault rifle that goes by his name, threatened to file a copyright violation suit against the Indian ordnance factory.

"Since then, our designers have been attempting to develop an assault rifle, using the AK-47 as a model but without replicating any of its mechanism. Three ordnance factories tried to develop their own variants. These were Rifle Factory of Ishapore, the Small Arms Factory of Kanpur and the Ordnance Factory of Tiruchirapalli. The Ishapore factory has a long history of developing and making rifles. During the World Wars, this factory produced .303 bolt-action rifles for the Allied forces. After the 1962 Sino-India conflict, the factory developed and built the 7.62mm self-loading semi-automatic rifle. This rifle was called the Ishapore Rifle and it went on to become the mainstay for the Indian security forces for several decades. In the 90's, the factory started manufacturing the 5.56mm Insas rifles that are still the primary personal weapon of the Indian infantryman," an official said.

The three factories at Ishapore, Kanpur and Tiruchirapalli built prototypes that underwent tests for the first time earlier this year. Minor defects were detected in all three variants. While the one developed by the Ishapore factory was declared fit in all other aspects, it failed to operate successfully in mud. An assault rifle has to be effective in all conditions, even when fired from under slush.

"This defect was rectified subsequently and when the final round of tests was conducted, the Ishapore variant was declared the best. This is an improved version of any assault rifle and the designers borrowed several facets from the 5.56mm Insas, which was also developed at Ishapore, while making this rifle. With the Insas going out of production, facilities at the Ishapore factory were lying idle. The new order will sustain the factory for the times to come," the official added.
Source :

India Develops AK-47 Variant
Ishapore factory develops Indian variant of AK-47 | idrw.org
Ishapore factory develops Indian variant of AK-47 - The Times of India
Ishapore factory develops Indian variant of AK-47 - The Economic Times

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Till then, This will act as a mid term solution ..

Bt wat hpnn to #mciws
Same gun with 8" barrel is PDW, 12" barrel is carbine, 16" barrel is AR and 20" barrel is DMR.

MCIWS is not ready yet.

BTW, using SMS lingo (bt, thy, r, nt) is severely looked down upon in this forum.
 

Redhawk

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Well, it is an ultra-modern-looking rifle. The Negev machine gun which is part of the same family of small arms looks very modern, too. But for all their ultra-modern good looks, I don't really like them. They look too glitzy, not what I'm use to at all.



Negev LMG in 5.56mm



Negev NG-7 in 7.62mm NATO
 
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Twinblade

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Its a media error, Their is only one small arm tender going on not two, ARX-160 is a AR ..
There are two tenders. One is for Multi caliber rifle and other is for 5.56 mm CQB Carbine. They have quite a few common players.
 

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Modi government looks to buy ‘shoot to kill’ hardware in military revamp

This is India’s second attempt since 2011 to procure assault rifles for its infantry


New Delhi: India’s armed forces have embarked on a shopping spree for modern assault rifles, body armour and helmets, providing a potential boost to global arms suppliers.

The 1.3 million-strong military is abandoning its two decade-old Indian made rifles and seeking to outfit its infantry with more up-to-date equipment, scouting for a new model on the global market for 185,000 assault rifles. The ministry of defence also needs to buy hundreds of thousands of helmets and tens of thousands of bullet proof vests.

The moves are part of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s $250 billion push to modernize India’s armed forces, as infantry continue to face the brunt of deadly attacks in disputed border areas such as Kashmir and the north-east.


Plans to buy new equipment from overseas, however, have been held back by bureaucratic delays and the military’s desire to balance the needs of troops against efforts to have equipment built domestically under Modi’s “ Make in India” program, a key plank in his drive to boost local manufacturing.

“It’s encouraging that they’re going ahead with this, but it’s discouraging that it’s not made under ‘Make in India,’ “ said Anit Mukherjee, a former major in the Indian Army and assistant professor at Singapore’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies. “The fact that it took 10 years for Indians to go ahead and say, ‘we’re importing’ means the bureaucracy is still holding back modernization of the armed forces. That’s problematic.”

Local rifles

The army currently uses the INSAS, or Indian Small Arms System, rifle, introduced in the late 1990s and built by the state-owned Ordnance Factory. Yet the Indian and Nepalese soldiers issued with the guns complained the 5.56mm rifles were unreliable, prompting the ministry to go to the global market for their replacement.

To identify possible vendors, the ministry last month issued a request for information. It said it wants a larger, more deadly 7.62mm model that will “shoot to kill.”

India needs 65,000 rifles within 28 months of signing the contract and has asked global manufacturers to reply by 7 November, the ministry said. India plans to issue a tender for procuring rifles in April 2017.


This is India’s second attempt since 2011 to procure assault rifles for its infantry. The 2011 tenders were issued to Colt’s Manufacturing Company LLC, Italy’s Fabbrica d’Armi Pietro Beretta S.p.A., Swiss Sig Sauer Inc., the Czech Republic’s Ceska zbrojovka and Israel Weapons Industry Ltd. But it was canceled in 2015 after the rifles offered up by the global manufacturers did not meet the multi-caliber requirements of the army.

Procurement delays

Apart from assault rifles, the army also sought to buy light automatic rifles and machine guns, as well as sniper rifles. Initially, it planned to buy 43,000 carbines off the shelf from international companies and build 120,000 others at ordnance factories in India.


But a tender issued four years ago to buy the carbines was cancelled earlier this month over procedural issues, according to a senior army officer who asked not to be identified discussing information that is private.

The rifle procurement is part of the army’s efforts to modernize personnel equipment, including body armour and helmets. It needs over 350,000 bullet-proof vests, and earlier this year decided to buy 50,000 units of body armour to meet emergency requirements. The army has also inched closer to procuring 150,000 lightweight helmets.

Delays in procuring basic equipment should concern policy makers as infantry troops take on the brunt of India’s current operations, according to Srinath Raghavan, a former infantry officer and senior fellow at New Delhi’s Centre for Policy Research.

The “Make in India” program, where foreign firms team up with local ones, is helping to address that, he said. But there were still tensions between the army’s urgent requirements for modern equipment and the slow pace of defence sector joint ventures, meaning at least some equipment must be bought “off the shelf”.

“The fact that you can’t even design your own small arms system reflects very poorly on the military ecosystem in India,” he said. “The military innovation cycle is dysfunctional and broken down and it should be a matter of huge concern.” Bloomberg


http://www.livemint.com/Politics/k2...-185000-assault-rifles-to-modernise-Indi.html
 

EXPERT

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And am again sure nothing will happen. Bureaucracy Sucks in India ..
 

Helms deep

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Hi all, can any clarify my doubts on,

Can India reverse engineer best profile for Indian condition, why our govt or Indian army not showing any intend to get them,

Is it due to bribery or any other reasons???
 

Chinmoy

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And am again sure nothing will happen. Bureaucracy Sucks in India ..
Along with bureaucracy, the foreign designs did sucked too. That's why IA has decided to pursue with Excalibur as of now.
 

Chinmoy

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Hi all, can any clarify my doubts on,

Can India reverse engineer best profile for Indian condition, why our govt or Indian army not showing any intend to get them,

Is it due to bribery or any other reasons???
Actually it has already been done. If you are already following the threads related to rifles here, you might have came across a thread on Ghatak. It is an AKM variant specially designed for Indian condition by OFB and is seeing service with many state police force and limited use in other Special forces. But why IA has not yet considered to induct it in mass is reason best known to them.....
 

prateikf

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The IWI carbine did clear all the trials but no contract was signed for its procurement due to vested interests and lobbying in the MOD for Beretta. IWI has already threatened to rethink all its investments in India and this decision speaks poorly of PM's Make in India program.
 

Chinmoy

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The IWI carbine did clear all the trials but no contract was signed for its procurement due to vested interests and lobbying in the MOD for Beretta. IWI has already threatened to rethink all its investments in India and this decision speaks poorly of PM's Make in India program.
Where you got this info from. Moreover the tender this thread is for is about AR not carbine.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Not a single cleared, Their are two separate reports posted on this very thread from two different dates with respect to trails held and further quoted are from MOD mouth piece, Give a read to the thread before making conclusions.

Those carbines are same as their AR, Working mechanism and metallurgy is same which is prime factors responsible for their failures.

The IWI carbine did clear all the trials but no contract was signed for its procurement due to vested interests and lobbying in the MOD for Beretta. IWI has already threatened to rethink all its investments in India and this decision speaks poorly of PM's Make in India program.
Where you got this info from. Moreover the tender this thread is for is about AR not carbine.
 

Chinmoy

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Not a single cleared, Their are two separate reports posted on this very thread from two different dates with respect to trails held and further quoted are from MOD mouth piece, Give a read to the thread before making conclusions.

Those carbines are same as their AR, Working mechanism and metallurgy is same which is prime factors responsible for their failures.
As far media report on carbine goes, IWI was only the sole competitor which passed the user trials. But why Beretta is ousted from final trial is an absurd reason. Reason given is that its scope is not safe to operate. Now MOD had asked IA to undertake trials without scope as those could be replaced with indigenous scope of same specification by BEL, this would in turn save some 800 crores. It is a classic case of I want to have tandoori, but I am not ready to have home made spices in it.

http://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/army-may-re-tender-contracts-for-assault-rifles-carbines/336599/

Although after going through what you have said, I too think that its a media hanky panky played out to mess up AR and Carbine issue.

What more I don't understand is how come media houses like Sputnik and financial express came to the conclusion that the tender is scrapped. GoI could anytime go into GtoG deal once a platform has passed its field test.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Its Army hinted that things are not well during 2012 and then conformed that tender is scrapped 2014, Army chief admitted himself that RFI was made in hurry without much depth information, All the source including statement from horse mouth is posted multiple times.

Their are plenty of media report who will do 'wha wahi' of various firms and also attacking each other, You cannot trust these.
 

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