Indian Army: News and Discussion

[porky_kicker]

Why are the good jernails getting fixated on light tanks?

Looks like more articles have been written about light tanks than any other IA equipment related subtopic during this escalation.

IMO the Chinese threat of armour should be addressed in 2 ways

1. Symmetric : expand the threat envelope horizontally

Eg.
Light tank from drdo and L&T armed with cockerill 120 mm gun , or/combination

Kestrel mounted with cockerill 120 mm gun , or/combination

Kestrel with 120 mm automated mortar with smart top attack munitions , or/combination

BMP 2 based NAMICA .

2. Asymmetric : expand the envelope vertically while simultaneously using assets which are asymmetric horizontally.

Induct helicopters armed with ATGMs ,

LMVs armed with fire and forget ATGMs / munitions and associated sensors which can provide overhead surveillance and target acquisition eg. Tactical UAVs / mast mounted optronic sensors for hit and run etc possibly reverse slope targetting.

Kalyani 105 mm mounted go anywhere light vehicles for use in both indirect as well as direct fire modes .

Kalyani motorised SPH with cargo rounds filled with top attack munitions.

Current situation can be addressed if we judiciously select the appropriate assets as available in short time as a hedge to current requirements while acquiring others progressively.


indian army has a very defensive mindset . If one wants to win wars , it is necessary not only to address the threat on a peer to peer level but to hold overwhelming advantage with judicious use and selection of assets. Blindly copying the enemy in a tit for tat , will only restrict us - we end up falling in their trap.

 

[Tanmay]

After the russian lobby did their sales pitch, now the American lobby is getting into the act.

Next stage is American lobby & russian lobby , will make the rest of us fight with each other on SM & Op-eds.

Heated arguments & tempers galore..
=========
Army to choose from Tata, American Stryker and Humvee for its armoured protection vehicle requirements

I remember Humvee being displayed in a Defence Expo in India when I was in school (2009 -2010 period).
Even then the news was Humvees and Patriot Missile System being considered by India

I have those 2009 era newspaper cuttings of Super Sukhoi upgrades(since internet was scarce I used to cut all army pics and stick them to a book)!!

Now its 2020, when USA is dumping Humvee and moving to JLTV, we are asking for old Humvees!!

Probably the Humvee love was renewed after Chinese deployed their own vehicles at Pangang Tso.

 

[ezsasa]

RFI for local manufacturing, but some of the RFI is for single and double digit quantity.
why would anyone invest for manufacturing such low quantity!!!

 

[WolfPack86]

#IndianArmy releases RFI for procurement of ammunitions for 122 mm BM-21 Grad (non ER) and 300 mm BM-30 Smerch

 

[WolfPack86]

Everything you wanted to know about the
@adgpi
‘s light tank quest from one of its prime movers - Lt Gen AB Shivane fmr DG Mech Forces.

 

[12arya]

Defence Ministry bans 101 import items in push for Atmanirbhar Bharat

Artillery guns, light combat helicopter, assault rifles, corvettes, radars, wheeled Armoured Fighting Vehicles (AFVs), transport aircraft, and other high technology weapons are among the 101 defence items that will not be imported from now on, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh announced on Sunday.

www.indiatoday.in

 

[doreamon]

Project chetah revived

India China news: Amid tensions with China, armed forces push case for arming Israeli drone fleet with laser-guided bombs, missiles | India News - Times of India

India News: Amid border tension with China, the armed forces are pushing a case for arming their Heron UAVs with laser-guided bombs, precision-guided munitions an

m.timesofindia.com

 

[Suryavanshi]

I remember Humvee being displayed in a Defence Expo in India when I was in school (2009 -2010 period).
Even then the news was Humvees and Patriot Missile System being considered by India

I have those 2009 era newspaper cuttings of Super Sukhoi upgrades(since internet was scarce I used to cut all army pics and stick them to a book)!!

Now its 2020, when USA is dumping Humvee and moving to JLTV, we are asking for old Humvees!!

Probably the Humvee love was renewed after Chinese deployed their own vehicles at Pangang Tso.

 

[doreamon]

No radar to be imported . So we ll get elta aesa frm isreal or not ?

 

[12arya]

COVID-19: Indian Army gifts 10 ventilators to its Nepali counterparts

KATHMANDU: The Indian Army on Sunday gifted 10 ventilators to the Nepali Army to support its efforts to fight against the COVID-19 pandemic that has claimed 75

www.newindianexpress.com

 

[patriots]

Ia is mounting 96 NSV machine gun on 2.5 ton tata vehicle s

 

[WolfPack86]

BREAKING: Indian MoD declares 'Self-Reliance Week', will 'announce' product "launches" over next 7 days that include: Medium Bulletproof Vehicle Nag Missile Carrier 14.5mm Anti Materiel Rifle Autonomous Underwater Vehicle Konkurs Missile & Launcher Test Equipment & more...

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian Army To Buy 6 Indigenous Weapon-Locating Swathi Radars For Over ₹400Cr
In a boost to Make in India in the defence sector, six more Swathi weapon-locating radars developed by Defence Research and Development Organisation are likely to be procured for Indian Army




The case for acquisition of six Swathi weapon-locating radars worth over ₹400 crore is scheduled to be taken up in a defence ministry meeting likely to be held tomorrow, defence sources told ANI.



The weapon-locating radars developed by the DRDO and built by Bharat Electronics Limited had achieved a major success as they were supplied to a foreign country also.



The Swathi weapon-locating radars will provide fast, automatic and accurate location of enemy weapons like mortars, shells and rockets in 50-kilometre range. The radar can simultaneously detect multiple projectiles fired from different weapons at different locations.



The Indian Army has been using the radars for its operations along the Line of Control in Jammu and Kashmir. The system was given for trial to Army in 2018.



Indian Army has been giving a major push to the indigenisation and has given orders for many equipment like self-propelled artillery guns to Indian vendors.

Indian Army To Buy 6 Indigenous Weapon-Locating Swathi Radars For Over ₹400Cr

In a boost to Make in India in the defence sector, six more Swathi weapon-locating radars developed by Defence Research and Developmen...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[WolfPack86]

Rajnath Singh to chair crucial Defence Acquisition Council meeting tomorrow
New Delhi: Defence Minister Rajnath Singh is likely to chair a crucial Defence Acquisition Council meeting on August 11. The three chiefs (General MM Naravane, Admiral Karambir Singh and Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria) and chief of defence staff, General Bipin Rawat are part of the meeting.


It is likely to clear the purchase of major weapons systems for the navy including:

• 10 unmanned aerial vehicles. India is already negotiating with the United States for ten Sea Guardian UAVs. They are high-performance drones, armed with sophisticated weapons including air-to-air missiles and bombs. It has a range of 2000 km and can be in the air for 14 hours. The USA has agreed to sell the Sea Guardians as part of its Foreign Military Sales programme.
• 111 Naval utility helicopters. A strategic partner may be decided upon. These are to replace the ageing Chetak choppers the Navy currently has.
• Super Rapid Gun Mounts. They are anti-ship and anti-aircraft guns, firing 76 mm shells.
• There is also the matter of the overhaul of INS Sindhughosh, the submarine, The Sindhughosh has had an accident in the past and was damaged when a fire broke out.

The Army has several projects under discussion:


Some changes to the plan to manufacture the AK-203 Russian designed assault rifle are expected to be considered.


The manufacture of ammunition for the T-72 and T-80 tank is being looked at. This could be entrusted to the Defence Research and Development Organisation or DRDO and the private sector.

Rajnath Singh to chair crucial Defence Acquisition Council meeting tomorrow

Defence Minister Rajnath Singh is likely to chair a crucial Defence Acquisition Council meeting on August 11.

www.timesnownews.com

 

[WolfPack86]

Big boost to armed forces: DAC approves acquisitions worth Rs 8,722 cr; 106 trainer aircraft cleared for IAF
New Delhi: In a boost to the Indian armed forces, the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) on Tuesday approved acquisition proposals worth Rs 8,722.38 crores. The Defence Ministry said as part of the proposals, 106 Basic Trainer Aircraft will be acquired from the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for the Indian Air Force.


The Ministry of Defence announced the following:


- Defence Acquisition Council in its meeting held under chairmanship of Defence Minister Rajnath Singh accorded approval for capital acquisitions of various platforms and equipment required by Indian Armed Forces. Proposals for approx cost of Rs 8,722.38 cr approved


- Defence Acquisition Council approved procurement of 106 Basic Trainer Aircraft from HAL to address IAF's basic training requirements. Post Certification 70 Basic Trainer Aircraft will be initially procured and 36 after operationalisation of HTT-40 fleet in IAF


- To improve the fire power of Indian Navy, the DAC approved procurement of an upgraded version of Super Rapid Gun Mount (SRGM) which is fitted as the main gun onboard Navy and Indian Coast Guard (ICG) warships from Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited (BHEL)


- DAC approved procurement of 125 mm APFSDS (Armour Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot) ammunition for Indian Army as a ‘Design and Development Case’. The ammunition being procured will have a 70% indigenous content


- Defence Acquisition Council also gave approvals that are likely to speed up the procurement of AK 203 and Unmanned Aerial Vehicle upgrades

Big push for ‘Atmanirbhar Bharat’ in DAC’s approval for defence acquisitions worth Rs 8,722 cr

The Defence Ministry said as part of the proposals, 106 Basic Trainer Aircraft will be acquired from the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for the Indian Air Force.

www.timesnownews.com

 

[fire starter]

does anyone knows about it.

 

[Sehwag213]

Can any one please explain me why have we deployed female soldiers in Kashmir?
What if they are kidnapped?

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

does anyone knows about it.

Must be DRDO MkII APFSDS (or as DRDO likes to call them: FSAPDS). Cleared trials some time ago. 500+mm RHAe penetration @ 2000 meters. Better than Mangoes. Enough to pierce frontal armour of all Paki tanks from 2 km away. (except the new VT-4 and maybe the T-80U). But not good enough against frontal armour of Chinese Type-96 and definitely not good against frontal armour of Type-99. Project already underway for upgrading FSAPDS penetration to 600 mm and then slowly increase to 800 mm. Will be able to frontally take down all enemy tanks except Type-99 in some years.

For T-series tanks:-

APFSDS designation	Penetration RHAe @ 2km	L/D ratio	Chamber pressure (MPa)	Muzzle Velocity (m/s)
3BM-42 Mango	450 mm	13.7	? (barrel can take 510 Mpa)	1700!?
DRDO MkI (125mm)		14	427 Mpa	1500-1550
DRDO MkII (125mm)	500+ mm (might be 530 mm)	20	480 Mpa	1600-1610
Indian Army EOI (2016)	>=530 mm	-	=< 600 MPa	-
Next Gen DRDO (confirmed to be under development)	600 mm (to be increased to 800 mm in phases)	?	650 MPa (new barrel developed*)	?

For Arjun tanks:-

APFSDS designation	Penetration RHAe @ 2km	L/D ratio	Chamber pressure (MPa)	Muzzle Velocity (m/s)
DRDO MkI (120)mm)	300 mm	?	?	?
DRDO MkII (120mm)	500-600** mm	17	510-580	1670

*
DGMF claims to have already improved barrel strength to withstand chamber pressures of upto 650 MPa. But the Russians already use a new barrel with 650 MPa capability on their T-90 and T-72S. Another Indian Army EOI from 2016 mentions Chamber pressure of <600 MPa. One distinguishing feature of new Russian barrel is a chrome lining. We can observe chrome lining in barrels of T-90 tanks of Indian Army, but not in the T-72 CIA. But the EOI mentioned is for both T-90 and T-72 tanks. Meaning Indian Army plans to upgrade guns of T-72 to those in the T-90 standards, but then why the limit of 600 MPa and not 650 MPa as claimed by DGMF? To enhance barrel life?

**
https://ofb.gov.in/uploads/Documents/cf65b3a277d43079c2051134bde39b71.pdf
The document above says its 500 mm, but there the picture below says its 600 mm. Maybe the depth of penetration fell in OFB document due to shabby OFB manufacturing.

 

[Bhadra]

Manpower of MoD
​

Mnapower cost of MoD and Armed Forces has been under lot of focus and discussion. The following post are being extracted from a study by IDSA.

The posts are being put here since the Indian Army constitutes of the largest Chunk of the manpower.

General

* The Ministry of Defence (MoD) employs the biggest workforce among all the central government ministries.

* Its workforce is nearly 50 per cent larger than that of the Railways and over 90 per cent higher than that of the Home Affairs – the two most manpower-intensive ministries after the MoD.

* Though the bulk of the MoD’s workforce consists of uniformed personnel (employed in the army, navy and air force), a sizeable number of defence civilians are employed in the armed forces and various other establishments to perform a variety of functions ranging from the provision of clerical support to the design and manufacture of state-of-the-art weapon systems.

* Naturally, pay and pension constitutes the single largest element of the MoD’s expenditure

Estimating India’s Defence Manpower | Manohar Parrikar Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses

India needs to have a public version of defence manpower database as part of its annual budgetary document. This would facilitate greater understanding and analysis of any possible manpower-related reforms in the future.

idsa.in

 

[Bhadra]

Manpower of MoD​

Sanctioned and Held Strength of Defence Civilians

It is important to note that the number of uniformed personnel as reported in Table 1 does not include four elements which are an integral part of the armed forces. These are: (1) officers deployed in the Army Medical Corps (AMC), Army Dental Corps (ADC) and Military Nursing Service (MNS); (2) personnel serving in the Defence Security Corps (DSC);[SUP][1][/SUP] (3) Non-Combatants Enrolled (NCs (E)) of the air force; and, (4) new military recruits undergoing training. These elements together account for over 1,60,000 personnel

​

[1] The personnel of the DSC are subject to Army Act and are responsible for providing security to the defence installations of the armed forces and other civilian defence establishments. See “Defence Security Corps”, Indian Army, Government of India.