Indian Army for new 9mm pistols

[Twinblade]

Indian Army for new 9mm pistols - SP's Land Forces

May 31, 2014: The Army's Infantry Directorate has announced interest in acquiring an unspecified number of 9mm pistols for regular troops. The proposed weapon is to be used as a secondary weapon both during conventional and sub conventional operations. The pistol needs to have ambidextrous handling with a silencer/suppressor, preferably with side-rails for add-ons like a tactical light and laser aiming device. The new sidearm needs to be a robust weapon to replace the current OFB Ichhapore Pistol Auto 9mm IA that remains the standard issue for regular Army infantry (special forces use the Austrian Glock 17 and Belgian FN-35). Interest is likely to pour in from several quarters, including Italy's Beretta (Px4 Storm), German-Swiss Sig Sauer (P226) and German Carl Walther GmbH Sportwaffen's Walther P99. The former two companies have aggressively marketed their wares at Indian trade shows in recent years. In 2009, the Indian Army had separately announced that it was looking for additional 9mm pistols for its special forces and para units.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

If anything going to change IA sidearm it should be COLT 1911 ..

Link to official website > Colt M1070CQBP - M45A1 Close Quarter Battle Pistol

 

[Twinblade]

If anything going to change IA sidearm it should be COLT 1911 ..

I was waiting fot the .45 vs the 9mm debate. Took two posts altogether

I am not venturing into that debate, but 9 mm has been the standard so long, in so many countries, across so many forces and has so many decent firearms that changing the caliber is a moot point. In fact, the 9 mm browning hi-power clone that we use is good enough as a general purpose side arm. Special forces can be given whatever the hottest 9mm is out there, but browning 9 mm is perfectly fine. Brits recently moved last year from browning to 9mm glock, while India, Australia and Canada are still using browning 9mm.

Edit: Also, brownings served us well since WW2. Police and army have guns older than men using them, they have seen some serious abuse and lasted decades. Hell, even the OFB could not screw up the browning. Brownings lasted long because they were made of steel. New pistol chosen would undoubtedly be a polymer frame, so you can't use it as a melee weapon when you run out of bullets and even the best polymer will fail after a decade of serious use on the range.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Hi - Power is hi - power ..

but browning 9 mm is perfectly fine. ..

 

[jackprince]

During brief training (my only exposure to live firearms till date) we were trained with Browning hi-power pistols which my trainers claimed to be at least 20 years old and were functioning perfectly well.

But sure didn't expect the kick it gave, thinking how hard could it be as i already scored well with revolvers! Oh how fine it felt to empty the mag!

 

[JBH22]

Go for something that is really cheap and mass produced.

9mm pistol can be produced for police and para military forces so that we can benefit from economies of scale.

 

[sydsnyper]

But Sir, isn't the name "Hi-Power" given to the pistol because when it was introduced it had the highest capacity magazine compared to the lugers, and colts of the era and has nothing to do with the power of the shots it takes !!!

Since then most magazines have the same or even higher capacity..... for example the Glock. I once spoke with an ex-marine who is now a cop and discussed the predicament of using the berretta v/s the glock.... he said that the Glock was preferred by the cops because it is idiot proof... and nothing short of blowing it up with a dynamite will stop the Glock from continuing to fire. It in fact needed less lubrication/maintenance than a berretta.

So can not the Army switch to the glock, which has both the 45mm and 9mm versions, extended capacity mags and a whole assortment of readily available attachments to suit various mission needs.

Hi - Power is hi - power ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

@sydsnyper, If you have the opportunity to shoot a glock 17 and a high power do that ( Assuming you are in US ), Hi Power is perhaps the best 9mm out there, It hit harder and accurate than a glock ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

In that case we already do my friend and we produce one of the best Sidearm for our forces ..

Army is looking into more futuristic, It want rail on everything even now our 84mm RCL have P-rails ..

Go for something that is really cheap and mass produced.

9mm pistol can be produced for police and para military forces so that we can benefit from economies of scale.

 

[hitesh]

My vote goes to Glock 17
e GLOCK 17, in 9x19, is the most widely used law enforcement pistol worldwide. Because of its unsurpassed reliability, above-average magazine capacity of 17 rounds in the standard magazine, and its low weight, it is trusted by Special Forces all over the world

 

[boris]

My vote goes to Glock 17
e GLOCK 17, in 9x19, is the most widely used law enforcement pistol worldwide. Because of its unsurpassed reliability, above-average magazine capacity of 17 rounds in the standard magazine, and its low weight, it is trusted by Special Forces all over the world

Both the Glock 17(even the 19 model) and the Sig P226 are a favourite of CT and SF units. A US soldier I interact with calls the glock as the AK 47 of pistols.

 

[hitesh]

Glock 17

 

[Immanuel]

Glock 17

Depending on the calibre, if .45 FNX .45 and Colt 1911 are ideal for 9mm Top contenders should be:

I have personally fired this puppy the FNX .45, I love it, its easily controllable and I had no trouble putting round after round on bulleye, plenty of headshots. FN has a legacy of reliable firearms and this one is ideal.

FNH USA - Distinct Advantage :: FNXâ„¢-45

IWI Jericho, light, reliable and comes from Israel, price for large purchase and local licenced manufacture should be pretty good

http://www.israel-weapon.com/files/brochure_2012/IWI_JERICHO_Pistols.pdf

Austrian Glock 17, already a bit dated but a great pistol, proven reliability

Glock

Italian Beretta PX4 Storm, modern, light weight with plenty of neat features
Px4 Storm Compact

I think for 9mm the PX4 could be the clear winner, its accurate, compact and easily carried

 

[Immanuel]

Also if the ARX-160 wins in the rifle competition, the PX4 would be a good combo to work with.

 

[Sea Eagle]

My vote goes to H&K USP

 

[sydsnyper]

If I have to know how hard it hits, I'd have to be on the other side of the barrel

I will try it out the next time i'm at a range. I had a comparative shooting between a berretta and a glock, and found the beretta better because of its weight and steadiness and follow up shots were faster than the glock.

I'll try a browning v/s glock shootout and let you know.

@sydsnyper, If you have the opportunity to shoot a glock 17 and a high power do that ( Assuming you are in US ), Hi Power is perhaps the best 9mm out there, It hit harder and accurate than a glock ..

 

[boris]

If I have to know how hard it hits, I'd have to be on the other side of the barrel

I will try it out the next time i'm at a range. I had a comparative shooting between a berretta and a glock, and found the beretta better because of its weight and steadiness and follow up shots were faster than the glock.

I'll try a browning v/s glock shootout and let you know.

When shooting the Hi-Power be careful of hammer bites, it will slide down enough to hit you in the region between the index finger and the thumb.

 

[arnabmit]

[video=youtube_share;8a0sgiIlykI]http://youtu.be/8a0sgiIlykI[/video]

Also if the ARX-160 wins in the rifle competition, the PX4 would be a good combo to work with.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Can`t miss Mac`s review of hi-power ..

 

[Nitin Soman]

Indian Army for new 9mm pistols - SP's Land Forces

I have personally fired a variety of handguns during my stay in the UAE. Plus taking into opinion my friends in the security services both in India and abroad, this is one big pool to search from. Our problem is that when it comes to weaponry procurement the hurdles in selection a numerous. In the end our forces get the second or third best just because some IAS guy thought it was a good idea. I think when it comes to a sidearm, it boils down to the army's preference. Field a number of pistols on test purpose to various units and take a positive feedback. Now to come to the list. The most reliable ones in the market which are battle proven ,
1.Sig Sauer P226
2.Beretta M9
3.CZ 75 SP01
4.Glock 17

The Sig was the main competition for the beretta during the competition for the official sidearm of the United States military. The Beretta won only on the basis of price. In every other way it was marginally outclassed by the Sig. The Sig is the best choice of the lot on performance, the reason why it has been adopted by some of the world's elite special operations teams...The Navy Seals and Her Majesty's Special Air Service (22 SAS). But to equip the Indian army as an official sidearm, it's way too expensive. The Glock, is a sweetheart. Extremely reliable and easy to maintain. But my experience shooting the Glock, it had way too much recoil, primarily because of its light weight. My pic of the lot is the CZ75. It has the reliability of a Browning HP and the performance of the SiG. Relatively cheaper pic of the lot and a beauty to fire. It literally fit into your hands like an extension of your body. Easy to manufacture and maintain.

I would also explore an option on the lines of the FN Five Seven. India has made its own high velocity pistol cartridge namely the 5.56x 30mm MINSAS. We could develop a pistol like the FN 57 or the H&K UCP as our standard sidearm caliber.