Indian Army Artillery

mist_consecutive

Selling Wuhan Fried Bats
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
3,414
Likes
29,757
Country flag
These corrupt MFers, endless trials for ATAGS, waivers for K9


Anyway 300 K9/15 regiments is a decent size for the 2 fronts but where are the 814 MGS?
K9s were procured for plains and deserts (western front). In 2020 we tried out K9s in Ladakh (there were multiple firing trials), and found out they are pretty good there as well, and given China's conventional superiority in Ladakh, made it a necessity to deploy them there.

ATAGS, (or any other towed artillery in the Indian Army) is expected to perform on both plains and the Himalayas. While I am aware of excessive trials of ATAGS and in no way giving a free pass to the Indian Army, it makes little sense to pick up every small matter and twist it to look like corruption.

Also, 300 K9s are utterly inadequate. We should be moving towards more SPH not towed artilleries. We need at least 500 to balance both Pakistan and China. But I guess we will see more emergency purchases when the hell breaks loose finally.
 

Indrajit

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
2,832
Likes
8,615
Country flag
K9s were procured for plains and deserts (western front). In 2020 we tried out K9s in Ladakh (there were multiple firing trials), and found out they are pretty good there as well, and given China's conventional superiority in Ladakh, made it a necessity to deploy them there.

ATAGS, (or any other towed artillery in the Indian Army) is expected to perform on both plains and the Himalayas. While I am aware of excessive trials of ATAGS and in no way giving a free pass to the Indian Army, it makes little sense to pick up every small matter and twist it to look like corruption.

Also, 300 K9s are utterly inadequate. We should be moving towards more SPH not towed artilleries. We need at least 500 to balance both Pakistan and China. But I guess we will see more emergency purchases when the hell breaks loose finally.
The K9 for deserts and plains point is a little silly. IA might have wanted it for that but the South Koreans did also design it for the mountainous terrain with North Korea. Maybe not the Himalays exactly but not just for the plains.

South Korea designed the K9 to operate on the rugged mountains of the demilitarized zone with North Korea, and accordingly gave it advanced hydropneumatics suspension to overcome the rocky terrain.

 

Kuldeepm952

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Messages
731
Likes
3,795
Country flag
K9s were procured for plains and deserts (western front). In 2020 we tried out K9s in Ladakh (there were multiple firing trials), and found out they are pretty good there as well, and given China's conventional superiority in Ladakh, made it a necessity to deploy them there.

ATAGS, (or any other towed artillery in the Indian Army) is expected to perform on both plains and the Himalayas. While I am aware of excessive trials of ATAGS and in no way giving a free pass to the Indian Army, it makes little sense to pick up every small matter and twist it to look like corruption.

Also, 300 K9s are utterly inadequate. We should be moving towards more SPH not towed artilleries. We need at least 500 to balance both Pakistan and China. But I guess we will see more emergency purchases when the hell breaks loose finally.
But doesn't a 500 requirement overall, meaning 400 extra units or 300 if the new systems ordered are not included, warrant a local development for tracked sph which can in theory be handled pretty fast considering that gun is already available and feeding system has been localised by L&T.
If we are to go by recent trends any big number requirement is broken down in small emergency purchases + other numbers to filled through indigenious route. All this applies if K9 is not considered indigenious of some sort.
Anyway we should start working on self contained sph turrets like Russian Koatsilya or the new K9A2, these are self contained turrets with both ammo and charges fully automated without any crews in turret, basically a remote control artillery turret, that's the new direction nations seem to be working on.
Put it on a truck
1664296231432.png

Or put it on a mbt hull
1664296256881.png
 

Tiwariji

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2022
Messages
358
Likes
2,012
Country flag
K9s were procured for plains and deserts (western front). In 2020 we tried out K9s in Ladakh (there were multiple firing trials), and found out they are pretty good there as well, and given China's conventional superiority in Ladakh, made it a necessity to deploy them there.

ATAGS, (or any other towed artillery in the Indian Army) is expected to perform on both plains and the Himalayas. While I am aware of excessive trials of ATAGS and in no way giving a free pass to the Indian Army, it makes little sense to pick up every small matter and twist it to look like corruption.

Also, 300 K9s are utterly inadequate. We should be moving towards more SPH not towed artilleries. We need at least 500 to balance both Pakistan and China. But I guess we will see more emergency purchases when the hell breaks loose finally.
Kalyani owner was saying they have capacity of one barrel per day . Such capability in itself is a huge advantage during war period . Some small things can be corrected later (if there is ) . Orders should be given at earliest .
 

mist_consecutive

Selling Wuhan Fried Bats
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
3,414
Likes
29,757
Country flag
The K9 for deserts and plains point is a little silly. IA might have wanted it for that but the South Koreans did also design it for the mountainous terrain with North Korea. Maybe not the Himalays exactly but not just for the plains.

South Korea designed the K9 to operate on the rugged mountains of the demilitarized zone with North Korea, and accordingly gave it advanced hydropneumatics suspension to overcome the rocky terrain.

The highest mountain in South Korea - 2744m
Elevation of Leh, Indus River valley in general (which is as low as you get in Ladakh) - 3,500m
Elevation around which Indo-China fight likely to happen (Pangong Tso) - 4,225m

Rarefied, fluctuating temperature desert environment, the ballistic trajectory of the projectile changes within hours. Ease of movement on rocky terrain is not the only requirement for operation at high altitudes.

But doesn't a 500 requirement overall, meaning 400 extra units or 300 if the new systems ordered are not included, warrant a local development for tracked sph which can in theory be handled pretty fast considering that gun is already available and feeding system has been localised by L&T.
If we are to go by recent trends any big number requirement is broken down in small emergency purchases + other numbers to filled through indigenious route. All this applies if K9 is not considered indigenious of some sort.
Anyway we should start working on self contained sph turrets like Russian Koatsilya or the new K9A2, these are self contained turrets with both ammo and charges fully automated without any crews in turret, basically a remote control artillery turret, that's the new direction nations seem to be working on.
Put it on a truckView attachment 173400
Or put it on a mbt hullView attachment 173401
Correct. We can in fact manage with 300 for now and order truck-mounted indigenous artilleries. But nobody knows when that will happen, or may even happen.



But the requirement for mobility is a must. Get stuck on the modern battlefield and drones will find you in no time if a counter-artillery fire does not.

Kalyani owner was saying they have capacity of one barrel per day . Such capability in itself is a huge advantage during war period . Some small things can be corrected later (if there is ) . Orders should be given at earliest .
Barrel yes, but what about engines, electronics, and other components which are imported from S.Korea?
 

Indrajit

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
2,832
Likes
8,615
Country flag
The highest mountain in South Korea - 2744m
Elevation of Leh, Indus River valley in general (which is as low as you get in Ladakh) - 3,500m
Elevation around which Indo-China fight likely to happen (Pangong Tso) - 4,225m

Rarefied, fluctuating temperature desert environment, the ballistic trajectory of the projectile changes within hours. Ease of movement on rocky terrain is not the only requirement for operation at high altitudes.

True but that's sn issue that would exist with any such system and in any case, IA seems happy with the performance of the K9 in the mountains.




Barrel yes, but what about engines, electronics, and other components which are imported from S.Korea?
Kalyani, not L&T. Different systems.
 

Tiwariji

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2022
Messages
358
Likes
2,012
Country flag
The highest mountain in South Korea - 2744m
Elevation of Leh, Indus River valley in general (which is as low as you get in Ladakh) - 3,500m
Elevation around which Indo-China fight likely to happen (Pangong Tso) - 4,225m

Rarefied, fluctuating temperature desert environment, the ballistic trajectory of the projectile changes within hours. Ease of movement on rocky terrain is not the only requirement for operation at high altitudes.



Correct. We can in fact manage with 300 for now and order truck-mounted indigenous artilleries. But nobody knows when that will happen, or may even happen.



But the requirement for mobility is a must. Get stuck on the modern battlefield and drones will find you in no time if a counter-artillery fire does not.



Barrel yes, but what about engines, electronics, and other components which are imported from S.Korea?
I was talking abt ATAGS . A mobile version is also under development.

 

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
6,395
Likes
24,610
Country flag
K9s were procured for plains and deserts (western front). In 2020 we tried out K9s in Ladakh (there were multiple firing trials), and found out they are pretty good there as well, and given China's conventional superiority in Ladakh, made it a necessity to deploy them there.

ATAGS, (or any other towed artillery in the Indian Army) is expected to perform on both plains and the Himalayas. While I am aware of excessive trials of ATAGS and in no way giving a free pass to the Indian Army, it makes little sense to pick up every small matter and twist it to look like corruption.

Also, 300 K9s are utterly inadequate. We should be moving towards more SPH not towed artilleries. We need at least 500 to balance both Pakistan and China. But I guess we will see more emergency purchases when the hell breaks loose finally.
My point is that we see plenty of waivers for imports but IDDM items are expected to be all-weather and all sector products and kept in trails continuously until they are or rejected.

since when have you heard of sector specific equipment in India? I was flabbergasted to read that the IA had given the K9s a waiver to just trail them in the deserts, 2020 highlighted the folly of that. I’m yet to see an Indian product that hasn’t had to be trailed in high altitudes yet because the armed forces argue they need equipment that can perform everywhere they operate- so why not for imports too?

300 SPG are adequate but like I said IA needs their 814 MGS which simply seems to have evaporated in the last 5 years, when was the last time this was spoken about? You only hear IA talk about towed and SPG recently.

MGS seem like the ideal solution for the East and north, K9 seems like a weird choice to throw another 100 at

On arty IA is severely falling behind, they should be inducting by the 1000s but are lucky to get 100 each of whatever they buy. I have no doubt if/when they get around to ordering ATAGS they won’t go for the full 3000+ requirement upfront but maybe 70-150 guns first and then incremental batches. No nation wins wars with such inadequate scale
 

Aniruddha Mulay

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
1,284
Likes
6,655
Country flag
K9s were procured for plains and deserts (western front). In 2020 we tried out K9s in Ladakh (there were multiple firing trials), and found out they are pretty good there as well, and given China's conventional superiority in Ladakh, made it a necessity to deploy them there.

ATAGS, (or any other towed artillery in the Indian Army) is expected to perform on both plains and the Himalayas. While I am aware of excessive trials of ATAGS and in no way giving a free pass to the Indian Army, it makes little sense to pick up every small matter and twist it to look like corruption.

Also, 300 K9s are utterly inadequate. We should be moving towards more SPH not towed artilleries. We need at least 500 to balance both Pakistan and China. But I guess we will see more emergency purchases when the hell breaks loose finally.
155/52 SPH are inherently expensive, even PLAGF operates 300+ PLZ-05, 122mm SPH form the bulk of their inventory.
In India's case, focus should be more on the 800+ MGS to be inducted.
ATAGS MGS is already in the works, recently a BEML truck was spotted at the Kalyani factory
 

jik60

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
192
Likes
1,420
Country flag
Much good news from the Artillery side today, really a wholesome day if you include VSHORADS launch and Carl M4 local production.

Most critically ATAGS (at the last phase of inhouse environmental trials, required for any vehicle level system before SOP) trails are going great.

 

Blademaster

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
4,389
Likes
13,621
300 barrels a year??? Sorry but that doesn't sound a lot. What if you need 3k-4k artillery guns and you need to fire a lot of rounds so barrels would wear out after 2000 shells. You can easily expect to wear out a barrel in 10-20 days after firing 100-200 rounds a day.
 

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
6,395
Likes
24,610
Country flag
Then it makes no sense for a BEML trucked to be at Kalyani Group's plant.
I guess it’s now confirmed. Bharat forge IS working on a MGS based on that BEML up-armoured truck

I coincidentally found this today on an entirely unrelated video.

So defence nerds- does that look like the ATAGS to you? Or is that BF’s own 155/52 gun?

also is this with direct collaboration with DRDO and BEML or something BF has taken it upon themselves to develop imagining future requirements (MGS is still outstanding)?

97BFF124-BCB4-4CF9-81A3-3D5A13A9C3DD.jpeg
 

AnantS

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
3,246
Likes
6,850
Country flag
I guess it’s now confirmed. Bharat forge IS working on a MGS based on that BEML up-armoured truck

I coincidentally found this today on an entirely unrelated video.

So defence nerds- does that look like the ATAGS to you? Or is that BF’s own 155/52 gun?

also is this with direct collaboration with DRDO and BEML or something BF has taken it upon themselves to develop imagining future requirements (MGS is still outstanding)?

View attachment 173430
This is what I like about BF. They bet on future requirements now and start developing now.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top