Indian Army Artillery

[Atcjurvin]

ATHOS will go through. That program existed before Dhanush and ATAGSs. It makes no sense having three completely different towed guns, but this is India, retarded shit happens.

And I agree, ATAGS should be mass produced. Would've given massive industrial benefits.

Ofcousre there is large requirement of guns so one can expect kickbacks and heavy lobbying, same thing is going to happen with FICV and ATGM program. Our defence sector has been made weak by depending on imports for 70yrs due to which whole defence sector and armed forces have been compromised by dalals. You will see more such lobbying, desperation, twisted RFI and unexpected deals In the coming yrs as indegeneous capability grows.

 

[Atcjurvin]

Corrupt MOD babus and generals are struggling like fish out of water these days that's why they are twisting RFI and giving illogical excuses against indegeneous weapons. Earlier every thing went very smoothly as we even imported screw but now things are changing fast as a result their desperation and pressure on them is also increasing. Modi should take notice and kick out all these leeches. Army generals are like fcking slippery snakes.

 

[Atcjurvin]

This then qualifies all the interested foreign ATGM manufacturers to offer their products under the Indian Designed Developed & Manufactured (IDDM) category, since this category contains a dubious clause that mandates only a minimum 40% locally-built material content, with the remaining 60% being permissible for imports! Consequently, we can safely conclude that IDDM is nothing else but a new 21st century definition of ‘licenced-manufacture’, thereby having nothing to do with the goal of achieving self-reliance in military-technical/military-industrial R & D. Only this can meaningfully explain why DPSUs like BDL are teaming up with foreign OEMs while at the same time making false claims about having the capability to develop and produce the so-called homegrown ATGMs like the MPATGM and Amogha-3.
THIS IS REALITY OF SO CALLED MADE IN INDIA WHICH IS NOW LIMITED TO LICENSE MANUFACTURING. THIS IS HOW MOD BABUS AND GENERALS ARE GIVING US LOLLIPOP OF INDEGENEOUS WEAPONS. THEY HAVE TWISTED EVERYTHING IN FAVOUR OF IMPORTS. THATS WHY EVERY YEAR THOUSANDS OF MOU ARE SIGNED BETWEEN PRIVATE AND FOREIGN COMPANIES FOR LOCAL PRODUCTION IT IS A INDIRECT WAY OF IMPORT. DO ANY ONE REALLY THINKS THAT MPATGM WILL WIN AGAINST 5TH GEN ATGMS PARTICIPATING IN THIS TENDER? ABSOLUTELY NO. SO AT LAST ARMY WILL GIVE SUCH EXCUSE AND OPT FOR FOREIGN ATGM UNDER SO CALLED LOLLIPOP IDDM THATS WHY THEY KEPT LOCAL CONTENT VERY LESS.

 

[Atcjurvin]

Similar thing happened with the procurement of 200 APC also instead of directly purchasing WHAP stupid army went in for global tender and competition. Now WHAP has to face competition from matured top platforms of the world it's chance of selection has already been diminished. So at last army will again give same excuse that whap failed in competition and will opt foreign platform. they again gave lollipop by allowing Whap to take part in tender it is just an formality. According to one drdo scientist Whap has already been delayed by four yrs due to dalals. So this is condition of another so called made in India weapon.

 

[Atcjurvin]

Same thing is going to happen with FICV program too again it will fall under the lollipop IDDM to give initial happiness to fan boys, again private and psu will sign MOU for local production of foreign ICV, again they will participate in the tender with their foreign ICV, again indegeneous ICV will fight against western matured ICV, again army will give excuse that they gave chance to indegeneous product but they failed, again foreign ICV will be opted and finally again our fanboys will get lollipop at last. This is what started and will go on. Ever since the government told army about make in India. Corrupt generals and mod babus came out with a innovative idea of IDDM to justify and go on for imports through license manufacture. Since these weapons will be license manufactured so government is happy, army is also happy, babus are also happy but fanboys keep sucking dick multiple times.
Check out @VinodDX9’s Tweet:

 

[Atcjurvin]

Point to be noted that all these programs are very big
Artillery program-upto 3000 guns required
MPATGM- upto 20000 required
APC - INITIAL 200 but will increase.
FICV - up to 2500.
Each deal costs about billions of dollars that's why there is heavy lobbying and kickbacks. Again we are missing parrikar ji.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

ATHOS will go through. That program existed before Dhanush and ATAGSs. It makes no sense having three completely different towed guns, but this is India, retarded shit happens.

And I agree, ATAGS should be mass produced. Would've given massive industrial benefits.

1500 ATHOS is a little too much... 400 ATHOS should be fine... as it will build up artillery power quickly..

 

[Craigs]

1500 ATHOS is a little too much... 400 ATHOS should be fine... as it will build up artillery power quickly..

Does Israel have a higher capacity to manufacture artillery guns than we do? If so we have to ask why.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Does Israel have a higher capacity to manufacture artillery guns than we do? If so we have to ask why.

I meant simultaneous manufacture.. .athos in israel, and ATAGS and dhanush here...

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Everybody, I give another proposition which I already have given. Let kalyani and Tata manufacture ATAGS simultaneously.
Very quickly numbers can be built, we are going round and round with this.
I said this previously too that both will manufacture concurrently and with the way baba is moving we can see upgraded ATAGS too, simply if this was OF USA MADE ARMY WOULD HAD BEEN DROOLING I SAY YOU ALL but let's see where this blatant import joke will go, because DRDO and companies have caught import dallals on their neck.
This is SIMPLY GOVERNMENT FAULT OR UNRESPONSIVENESS either they are forgetting that this is army ploys to gain more time for Athos or army is letting government dance unknowingly on army hands.
Maybe government has came to senses that's why LESS INCREASE IN THIS YEAR BUDGET.....all we can do right now is hope only and hope some REAL PATRIOT is sitting in POWERFUL POSITION in government because namesake patriots are literally roaming everywhere.
No weapon become PERFECT IN IT'S OWN FIRST MAKING and IN EVERYTHING, there is no weapon in the world with this distinction but ATAGS IS PEEFECT IN many IMPORTANT SENSES and this weight issue is not important if you have got range,but don't know what army want?
Do they want to fire from ATAGS in ASSAL UTTAR type of conditions or want to move it in that type of condition then even then their ATHOS cannot fire or move for that sake.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Say Good bye to mass production of ATAGS now mighty gun will be used to boost make in india shows and will take part in parades only.
So much for make in india. :blah::blah::blah:

 

[ezsasa]

Say Good bye to mass production of ATAGS now mighty gun will be used to boost make in india shows and will take part in parades only.
So much for make in india. :blah::blah::blah:

Assuming this news is still true.

Barrel would probably be made by Kalyani either way.

There are only two barrel manufacturers in India, Kalyani and GCF Jabalpur.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Assuming this news is still true.

Barrel would probably be made by Kalyani either way.

There are only two barrel manufacturers in India, Kalyani and GCF Jabalpur.

Sirji when we had indigenous guns why we asked for a foreign tender when we want purchase from US France their is option of Government to government deal but what happens to this thing when india player's are involved?
And what about 400 Guns which will be imported from Israel? They will also cost us in Billion or so.
Anyways today i don't have any trust on what government claim about fake make in india.

 

[jik60]

^^^ Again I am saying, let the MOD, Army and DRDO confirm first. Let them confirm first why they are ditching Indigenous solution. ATAGS will go through user trials this year, I can expect these kinds of articles but the other party should also step up their games. Ajay Benerjee's article has struck the right tone.

 

[ezsasa]

Sirji when we had indigenous guns why we asked for a foreign tender when we want purchase from US France their is option of Government to government deal but what happens to this thing when india player's are involved?
And what about 400 Guns which will be imported from Israel? They will also cost us in Billion or so.
Anyways today i don't have any trust on what government claim about fake make in india.

Still speculating...

I am guessing, IA is in a hurry to fill the 3000 arty requirement before 2025, at the least ensure deals are signed.

If they miss the chance now, no guarantees that they will get a favourable govt again. Defence forces got lucky twice already, with modi’s two terms.

 

[porky_kicker]

There is no smoke without a fire

I am inclined to believe foreign maal loving army will import Israeli artillery and give very limited token order for Indian artillery.

They and government will fool the public by showing " make in India " by getting some of the artillery assembled in India.

This is basically corruption if it is true .
Corruption is not limited to swindling money but it also encompasses breach of promises or claims.

No use wasting time on all these defence shit.

Will not be active on forums any longer as before.

Phoket ka matha marke kya faida
Chutiya sab jo power me hai , chutiya hi rahenge, adat banne chuka hai.

 

[Deathstar]

There is no smoke without a fire

I am inclined to believe foreign maal loving army will import Israeli artillery and give very limited token order for Indian artillery.

They and government will fool the public by showing " make in India " by getting some of the artillery assembled in India.

This is basically corruption if it is true .
Corruption is not limited to swindling money but it also encompasses breach of promises or claims.

No use wasting time on all these defence shit.

Will not be active on forums any longer as before.

Phoket ka matha marke kya faida
Chutiya sab jo power me hai , chutiya hi rahenge, adat banne chuka hai.

I am actually fed up of our army.
CDS is a bit Hypocrite here , pointing fingers at Navy when its the most pro indigenous force.
While Army lusts for foreign imports despite indigenous solutions available.
Questions Navys budget but ignores his army buddies.

 

[fire starter]

@Bhadra u were right about ATAGS

 

[Akula]

.................................

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Everybody, I give another proposition which I already have given. Let kalyani and Tata manufacture ATAGS simultaneously.
Very quickly numbers can be built, we are going round and round with this.
I said this previously too that both will manufacture concurrently and with the way baba is moving we can see upgraded ATAGS too, simply if this was OF USA MADE ARMY WOULD HAD BEEN DROOLING I SAY YOU ALL but let's see where this blatant import joke will go, because DRDO and companies have caught import dallals on their neck.
This is SIMPLY GOVERNMENT FAULT OR UNRESPONSIVENESS either they are forgetting that this is army ploys to gain more time for Athos or army is letting government dance unknowingly on army hands.
Maybe government has came to senses that's why LESS INCREASE IN THIS YEAR BUDGET.....all we can do right now is hope only and hope some REAL PATRIOT is sitting in POWERFUL POSITION in government because namesake patriots are literally roaming everywhere.
No weapon become PERFECT IN IT'S OWN FIRST MAKING and IN EVERYTHING, there is no weapon in the world with this distinction but ATAGS IS PEEFECT IN many IMPORTANT SENSES and this weight issue is not important if you have got range,but don't know what army want?
Do they want to fire from ATAGS in ASSAL UTTAR type of conditions or want to move it in that type of condition then even then their ATHOS cannot fire or move for that sake.

1500 ATHOS is a little too much... 400 ATHOS should be fine... as it will build up artillery power quickly..

Even if Israel has the capability to make artillery guns quickly, it would still take 2-3 years to deliver all those 400 ATHOS-2052 to India.
Baba Kalyani has already stated in the DefExpo 2018 that they possess the capability to manufacture 250 ATAGS yearly. If both Kalyani group and TATA Power SED started parallel production of ATAGS, 400-500 ATAGS can easily manufactured in the span of 1 year.
On a side note, at the recent DefExpo 2020, Kalyani group stated that they are able to make 300 ULH each year.
Kalyani group is world leader in forging, I don't think Israel posses this capacity to build howitzers quickly.