Indian Army Artillery

[Absolut_Vodka]

They do not make any thing which is straight. The only seek projects that will cater for their retirements. That way it better.

I have never been in any govt job or outsourced contractor for govt project but i do know this that this should have materialized.

 

[ezsasa]

Because I paid money as taxes to set up ECL not VEM Technologies.

Replied in chit chat thread..........

 

[Chinmoy]

If a person claims that he is bringing facts out, you can not ask him to setup a company.

He brings up facts right out of his a** that too without going through facts on his own.

Pune: Electronic Artillery Fuse Manufacturing Facility Launched At BEL

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/10/pune-electronic-artillery-fuse.html

A senior BEL official said, “Pune unit of the BEL, headquartered in Defence Public Sector Undertaking in Bangalore, which has a multi-product facility that manufactures laser-based range finding equipment, power packs for wireless radio sets, infantry combat vehicle-based Nuclear Biological Chemical and reconnaissance systems, along with X Ray baggage scanners. The facility has diversified into the field of electronic artillery fuses. BEL has nine manufacturing units spread all over the country.”
“The newly-inaugurated facility has a capacity to make more than 50,000 electronic fuses per month, and can augment this capacity as per the requirement of the Army. BEL, Pune, also plans to expand the fuse manufacturing capability in the near future. With this facility going online, BEL is confident of fulfilling all the needs of electronic fuses for our artillery, today and in times to come,” he added.

It happens with people who are more interested in their monetary investment return rather then knowing of investment in brain.

 

[Bhadra]

He brings up facts right out of his a** that too without going through facts on his own.

Pune: Electronic Artillery Fuse Manufacturing Facility Launched At BEL

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/10/pune-electronic-artillery-fuse.html

........................
It happens with people who are more interested in their monetary investment return rather then knowing of investment in brain.

The agency to start with was ECL which was tasked with making electronic fuzes and when they muddled up and not able to fufill the demand, then BEL is undertaking the task..

But my friend, like ECL , the BEL are only assembling it by importing components from a South African company.

Why are you monkey jumping and being personal. I only bring out facts......

*************************************

http://www.defproac.com/?p=6219

In some of the categories Ammunition (Mostly Arty and AD) is available but of no use due to non availability of Fuzes.

Resultantly certain category of Ammunition has been having a high training restriction. Hence, there is lot of scope for capability development in this segment.

Earlier the bids to supply were sought from Private sector for yearly requirement of Electronic Fuze for Arty Gun for over 60000 per annum of Electronic Fuze for establishing the manufacturing facility and supplying for a contractual period of ten (10) years under “manufacture of ammunition for Indian Army by Private Indian industry”- initiative of Govt of India. In the specific case of Electronic Fuze for Arty gun systems requirement projection was 6,00,000 quantities, of per year, which is reasonably high target for any established supplier to meet the requirement.

MoD is likely to allow some public sector such as Bharat Electronics Ltd and Electronics Corporation of India Ltd, who have been past supplier of limited quantity of these Fuzes. ECIL, has a tie-up with Fuchs Electronics of South Africa has been enjoying virtual monopoly over 20 years for all variants of Fuze for the all Arty guns, yet failed to indigenize the main subsystems. The critical subsystems such as the target sensing mechanism, electronic timer kit and electronic circuitry and the battery are imported from South Africa and assembled in India.

The RFP is conditional and stipulates transfer of critical technology for Manufacture of the ammunition items. For example for Electronic Fuze the critical subsystems such as Battery, electronic detonator, Antenna, Receiver, Safety and Arming Device requires transfer of technology, which OEM may be reluctant. The RFP of the other variants of Electronic Fuzes is also likely to follow the same track.

Against an RFP in 2012 for Artillery Gun fuze the some tie ups emerged:-

• BEL - Reschef
• ECIL- Fuch (SA)
• Micron- Jughans
• HBLNoida-South Korean

Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) was selected and order placed. BEL Pune has inaugurated new facility to produce at least 50,000 Electronic fuses per month and the capacity can be increased as per requirement, fulfilling all the needs of electronic fuses for our artillery, today and in times to come....

*****************************
But the fact is India still remain woefully deficient of fuzes and PSUs still import everything to make the fuzes . The fuzes continue to be prohibitively expensive....

 

[Chinmoy]

The agency to start with was ECL which was tasked with making electronic fuzes and when they muddled up and not able to fufill the demand, then BEL is undertaking the task..

But my friend, like ECL , the BEL are only assembling it by importing components from a South African company.

Why are you monkey jumping and being personal. I only bring out facts......

*************************************

http://www.defproac.com/?p=6219

In some of the categories Ammunition (Mostly Arty and AD) is available but of no use due to non availability of Fuzes.

Resultantly certain category of Ammunition has been having a high training restriction. Hence, there is lot of scope for capability development in this segment.

Earlier the bids to supply were sought from Private sector for yearly requirement of Electronic Fuze for Arty Gun for over 60000 per annum of Electronic Fuze for establishing the manufacturing facility and supplying for a contractual period of ten (10) years under “manufacture of ammunition for Indian Army by Private Indian industry”- initiative of Govt of India. In the specific case of Electronic Fuze for Arty gun systems requirement projection was 6,00,000 quantities, of per year, which is reasonably high target for any established supplier to meet the requirement.

MoD is likely to allow some public sector such as Bharat Electronics Ltd and Electronics Corporation of India Ltd, who have been past supplier of limited quantity of these Fuzes. ECIL, has a tie-up with Fuchs Electronics of South Africa has been enjoying virtual monopoly over 20 years for all variants of Fuze for the all Arty guns, yet failed to indigenize the main subsystems. The critical subsystems such as the target sensing mechanism, electronic timer kit and electronic circuitry and the battery are imported from South Africa and assembled in India.

The RFP is conditional and stipulates transfer of critical technology for Manufacture of the ammunition items. For example for Electronic Fuze the critical subsystems such as Battery, electronic detonator, Antenna, Receiver, Safety and Arming Device requires transfer of technology, which OEM may be reluctant. The RFP of the other variants of Electronic Fuzes is also likely to follow the same track.

Against an RFP in 2012 for Artillery Gun fuze the some tie ups emerged:-

• BEL - Reschef
• ECIL- Fuch (SA)
• Micron- Jughans
• HBLNoida-South Korean

Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) was selected and order placed. BEL Pune has inaugurated new facility to produce at least 50,000 Electronic fuses per month and the capacity can be increased as per requirement, fulfilling all the needs of electronic fuses for our artillery, today and in times to come....

*****************************
But the fact is India still remain woefully deficient of fuzes and PSUs still import everything to make the fuzes . The fuzes continue to be prohibitively expensive....

Wow............ You are so good in fishing out things which satisfy your ego. So let me satisfy my ego too here.

So we could see what BEL and Reshef has tied up for. Now Time, Proximity and Electronic fuze are three different fuzes I believe.

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=181027

 

[Longewala]

The agency to start with was ECL which was tasked with making electronic fuzes and when they muddled up and not able to fufill the demand, then BEL is undertaking the task..

But my friend, like ECL , the BEL are only assembling it by importing components from a South African company.

Why are you monkey jumping and being personal. I only bring out facts......

*************************************

http://www.defproac.com/?p=6219

In some of the categories Ammunition (Mostly Arty and AD) is available but of no use due to non availability of Fuzes.

Resultantly certain category of Ammunition has been having a high training restriction. Hence, there is lot of scope for capability development in this segment.

Earlier the bids to supply were sought from Private sector for yearly requirement of Electronic Fuze for Arty Gun for over 60000 per annum of Electronic Fuze for establishing the manufacturing facility and supplying for a contractual period of ten (10) years under “manufacture of ammunition for Indian Army by Private Indian industry”- initiative of Govt of India. In the specific case of Electronic Fuze for Arty gun systems requirement projection was 6,00,000 quantities, of per year, which is reasonably high target for any established supplier to meet the requirement.

MoD is likely to allow some public sector such as Bharat Electronics Ltd and Electronics Corporation of India Ltd, who have been past supplier of limited quantity of these Fuzes. ECIL, has a tie-up with Fuchs Electronics of South Africa has been enjoying virtual monopoly over 20 years for all variants of Fuze for the all Arty guns, yet failed to indigenize the main subsystems. The critical subsystems such as the target sensing mechanism, electronic timer kit and electronic circuitry and the battery are imported from South Africa and assembled in India.

The RFP is conditional and stipulates transfer of critical technology for Manufacture of the ammunition items. For example for Electronic Fuze the critical subsystems such as Battery, electronic detonator, Antenna, Receiver, Safety and Arming Device requires transfer of technology, which OEM may be reluctant. The RFP of the other variants of Electronic Fuzes is also likely to follow the same track.

Against an RFP in 2012 for Artillery Gun fuze the some tie ups emerged:-

• BEL - Reschef
• ECIL- Fuch (SA)
• Micron- Jughans
• HBLNoida-South Korean

Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) was selected and order placed. BEL Pune has inaugurated new facility to produce at least 50,000 Electronic fuses per month and the capacity can be increased as per requirement, fulfilling all the needs of electronic fuses for our artillery, today and in times to come....

*****************************
But the fact is India still remain woefully deficient of fuzes and PSUs still import everything to make the fuzes . The fuzes continue to be prohibitively expensive....

So for the (relatively small) requirements of the Indian Army, if they make all sub-components in India the product will cost 2x and will take twice as long to design and test from scratch. And then you will refuse to buy it citing price.

Which just shows all these are just excuses for the foreign maal dalaals in our military.

 

[Bhadra]

So for the (relatively small) requirements of the Indian Army, if they make all sub-components in India the product will cost 2x and will take twice as long to design and test from scratch. And then you will refuse to buy it citing price.

Which just shows all these are just excuses for the foreign maal dalaals in our military.

I agree with your point of view partially. However, it is not lack of demand but lack of supply that is causing the shortage and demand is adequate for BEL / DRDO to invest more into making indegenious fuzes. But the fact is that they can not even make thermal batteries for fuzes.

It has been time and again pointed out by the CAG and DG Artillary that shortage of ammunition is also factored by lack of electronic fuzes / other fuzes.
*******************
https://www.outlookindia.com/newswi...-shortage-of-ammunition-in-indian-army/972534
..........................................

................ Former artillery officer Lieutenant General V. K. Chaturvedi (Retired) told ANI that the report highlights shortages in ammunitions, especially in the electronic fuses that are used for explosives and missile.

"The issue is more to do with the critical scarcity in electronic fuses. Only ammunition required for small weapons don't use fuses or chargers. Thus the ammunitions used in artillery explosives, missiles, mortars are going to suffer due to this scarcity," he said.

....................................................

********************************
Modern Fuzes particularly for artillery and Mortar shells have vast requirements and demand. Leave aside 50 years old vintage Electronic Fuzes, Indian Artillery wishes to graduate into "Course Correction Fuze" technology as evident from a recent RFI.

 

[Bhadra]

Wow............ You are so good in fishing out things which satisfy your ego. So let me satisfy my ego too here.

View attachment 36112
So we could see what BEL and Reshef has tied up for. Now Time, Proximity and Electronic fuze are three different fuzes I believe.

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=181027

I am open to learning from you..
But first please learn yourself... rather than bullshitting about VT Fuzes, Proximity Fuzes, Time Fuzes and percussion Fuzes.

When one talks of Electronic Fuzes one certainly is implying MOFA types multifunction and multi purposes, jam proof electronic fuzes that can be used for cargo, airburst, percussion, delay, crest clearance, variable time, graze and everything else and meets all fuzing parameters.

 

[Enquirer]

I see pig vomit is back on the threads..spreading stench.....yuck!!!

 

[Bhadra]

I see pig vomit is back on the threads..spreading stench.....yuck!!!

and another one just gulped it up....yuck...

 

[vampyrbladez]

CHILL THE FUCK OUT AND DON'T DERAIL THE THREAD!

 

[Absolut_Vodka]

Why Electronic and course correction fuzes are expensive is because they fall under Military standards which requires electronics to work beyond temperatures and G forces of normal IC.

Mil grade electronics is easily 7 to 10 times more expensive speaking of same micro controller. They also require exhaustive testing and high reliability.

 

[Bhadra]

Why Electronic and course correction fuzes are expensive is because they fall under Military standards which requires electronics to work beyond temperatures and G forces of normal IC.

Mil grade electronics is easily 7 to 10 times more expensive speaking of same micro controller. They also require exhaustive testing and high reliability.

Is the shortage of Electronic Fuzes due to cost ?
If an order for say 50000 fuzes has been placed and the supply is only 10,000 how wise is it to talk of cost.

My point was that since 1992, why our people are not able to supply sufficient quantity ?

high cost of fuzes is compensated by accuracy and reliability wherein the desired effect is achieved by ten shells rather than firing 30 non precision fuzed shells. All precision munitions such as air delivered bombs, missiles, ground / vehicle mounted missiles, artillery munitions are costly because of their "intelligence" portion of technologies.

However, we are talking of manufacturing capacity, capability and technologies in India which results in shortage of shells. Secondly, why are we assembling in India when we can get the entire fuze much cheaper by imports?

 

[Pandeyji]

Secondly, why are we assembling in India when we can get the entire fuze much cheaper by imports?

Because there is something called strategic independence you ape

 

[Enquirer]

Because there is something called strategic independence you ape

There's no point in trying to educate that pig vomit. He's here just to rile up everyone and become the center of the attraction. Have you seen the quantum of posts (that too looong ones) he does on this forum? He's some senile guy dejected with life and rejected by everyone around him!

 

[jik60]

Hello guys, need some help from fellas with good photoshop skills.
Could you please remove those media persons with their camera from the below pic? If possible can you also remove the withe ribbons and the old 75 pounder near to it. I tried hard to put all of the present arty systems of IA in one frame

 

[Enquirer]

Hello guys, need some help from fellas with good photoshop skills.
Could you please remove those media persons with their camera from the below pic? If possible can you also remove the withe ribbons and the old 75 pounder near to it. I tried hard to put all of the present arty systems of IA in one frame

View attachment 36145

Is it worth the effort? The pic is of such low resolution!

 

[jik60]

Is it worth the effort? The pic is of such low resolution!

Yahh I am aware of it. But I kind of liked the picture very much. IA artillery had always been and is my obsession even more than any SF stuff. So you have 6 different type of arty gun system and 3 different type mbrls in one frame. I think only a handful of country (May be only ruskies, Kim Jon’s and Hans ) have these magnitude of variation and numbers in their field arty force. In next two years ATAGS will take place of one of the 105 mm guns. So it gonna be one of its kind arty force in the entire world.

 

[Absolut_Vodka]

Is the shortage of Electronic Fuzes due to cost ?
If an order for say 50000 fuzes has been placed and the supply is only 10,000 how wise is it to talk of cost.

My point was that since 1992, why our people are not able to supply sufficient quantity ?

high cost of fuzes is compensated by accuracy and reliability wherein the desired effect is achieved by ten shells rather than firing 30 non precision fuzed shells. All precision munitions such as air delivered bombs, missiles, ground / vehicle mounted missiles, artillery munitions are costly because of their "intelligence" portion of technologies.

However, we are talking of manufacturing capacity, capability and technologies in India which results in shortage of shells. Secondly, why are we assembling in India when we can get the entire fuze much cheaper by imports?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(acceleration)

Acceleration = 152 210 m/s2 15 500G Rating of electronics built into military artillery shells


https://www.zauba.com/import-/hs-code-9306/month-2015-08-01T00:00:00Z/unit-UNT/p-1-hs-code.html


http://jsprojects.co.in/Home/Business_Verticals/1/4


I can only comment on why it's difficult to come up with fuzes. This tech has more to do with stress than actual electronics which any Engineering student can program. Cost per fuze isn't that bad either but it makes sense to have ToT if we plan to manufacture it in lakhs.

 

[Bhadra]

Because there is something called strategic independence you ape

That is hilarious and being at least being honest. "Strategic independence in aping".... Ha Ha ......